I have a small layout at home on a 4x6. Its very simple: just a loop with 2 sidings and 3 spurs. I am considering using the caboose industries ground throws Instead of the Atlas snap switch machines that the layout came with. I'm just afraid afterwards I might regret it. Any thoughts?
nscsx,
Will your turnouts have live frogs/be powered? Because I run short switchers all my turnouts have live frogs so that they don't stall. If that is what you plan on using then I would suggest the Caboose Hobbies 220s ground throws. They have the SPDT clip built in and work quite well and reliably.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The Caboose ground throws are very reliable and inexpensive. I only have four of them on my layout due to the locations and size of the layout, but would higly recommend them. As long as they are easily accessable they should do you well.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
My frogs are considered DCC friendly because they have insulated frogs. I had it wired for DC originally and my small 45 toner crossed the switches with no problems but I am planning on wirin it for DCC now. Hmmm...I wonder if it will give me a problem.
Hi, NSCSX
I have quite a few Caboose ground throws and never had an issue with any of them. They, by nature, are a bit oversized but I wouldn't want to trade-off reliability for a slightly smaller size.
All the above information is great but I'd like to add two points.
First be sure you get the specific model that suits your application. This page will help:
http://www.cabooseind.com/#!product-info/c1qj3
I like to use the sprung variety with the longer throw which allows for good force for the points against the stock rails. I have a few of the high stands and although they look neat I find that I have to help the points along as the gear mechanism is quite delicate.
Second is to use extra care in installing your ground throw. I generally center the points using two wooden tooth picks as shims, then raise the handle of the ground throw to vertical (center) and using a pin vice, pre drill holes for the nails.
Tap one nail in part way and if everything looks like it is still lined up, drill the second hole and get the nail started there.
I use the Micro-Engineering round head track nail.
Be sure to use a nailset for the final setting and don't over-drive the nails.
You didn't mention what your roadbed and sub-roadbed are. I find the 5mm lauan plywood cut into 1-1/4" squares makes a good base for the ground throw if you are using cork roadbed. Brings it up to the right height and is more solid than the cork.
If your sub-roadbed is homasote you could probably drive the nails without pre-drilling.
Good Luck, Ed
Have you considered Blue Point controls? They use a push rod and have a DPDT set of contacts built in if you need frog power. I love them.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
The Caboose Industries ground throws are very dependable and work very well. Only problems with them come if you need to power the frog (already mentioned) and if you are trying to be prototypical. They are, how should I say....... Somewhat, no very ah....
A bit out of scale, I guess..... But, much better than the snap machines that come with some of the Atlas Turnouts......
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Try these throws from Bitter Creek Models http://bittercreekmodels.com/page11.html
Rob Spangler
howmusOnly p[roblems with them come if you need to power the frog
For this Caboose offers the 220 series (as Tom pointed out above)
Regards, Ed
I posted this on the Layouts and Layout Building forum.
I think these throws are something you could consider.
I have used these throws and I like the way they work. After the first 2 installs I feel I learned the thing you have to do to easily install them I like them so much that I have ordered more.
http://humpyard.com/
Ron High
nscsx My frogs are considered DCC friendly because they have insulated frogs. I had it wired for DC originally and my small 45 toner crossed the switches with no problems but I am planning on wirin it for DCC now. Hmmm...I wonder if it will give me a problem.
Well right off the bat.....running DC on Atlas snap switches, really is not that noticeable, but they do hesitate slightly with shorter wheel base engines...especially a 45 toner. When running DCC with them, they will also stall and cut out/with sound worse. The only real cure then is to power the frog...Which You can't do! You stated in Your other post that they are Atlas Snap Switches that came with the layout. An Atlas snap switch has a plastic black frog and cannot be powered...so Your stuck, unless You run longer 4-axle engines with pick-up on both trucks. Also trying to change to different switches, so You can power the frog, won't be easy either...because the Geometry of the Atlas Snap Switches is so much different than any others and the layout track will not match. They were designed to have an almost instant small layout, up and running, with their products, that You did not have to have a degree in rocket science, to get running.
Good Luck..In Your decision!
Take Care!
Frank
I recommend Caboose Industries 202S. They are sprung and maintain a tension and are easy to throw. They also have a five-pack 5202 which will save a little money.
Ken Vandevoort
I may have reported falsely on what kind of switches they were. The package they come in calls them Atlas Custom line turnouts. They do have black frogs but there is a small screw hole in the middle of the switch so it can be powered. The frog is black but hard to tell if it's metal or not.
On the back of the box it states that if your locos stall, to power the frog with some kind of special thing that they sell from Atlas.
Am thinking could one convert those caboose industry thows to look like modern "backsaver" throws.
Joe Staten Island West
nscsx I may have reported falsely on what kind of switches they were. The package they come in calls them Atlas Custom line turnouts. They do have black frogs but there is a small screw hole in the middle of the switch so it can be powered. The frog is black but hard to tell if it's metal or not. On the back of the box it states that if your locos stall, to power the frog with some kind of special thing that they sell from Atlas.
Then they are not Snap Switches...they are Atlas Customline, with a black pot metal frog and can be powered. The special thing is called an Atlas relay and it is hooked up in parallel with the Atlas switch machine...they do make one now, with the relay and the switch machine together as on unit, but that is for under table mount. But You said You wanted them to be manual. So getting the Caboose ground throw with the contacts for powering the frog, will be best for You! There are other ways...but that should be simpler for You and they work.
Atlas #200 Snap-Relay:
Me again....
The frogs on the Atlas turnouts are metal, as has already been said, but you can't sloder to them. So...... here is what I did before I started making my own turnouts that work far better than any commercial trunouts (no, I'm not suggesting that you run out and get the Fast tracks jigs!).
First off here are three diffent types of turnouts:
Top is a Walthers Shinohara Curved turnout. I use those where appropriate. In the Middle is the plain old non protoype (icky) old Atlas #6 turnout. Notice the highly prototypical black colored frog and guard rails (All real railroads have them, don't they?), the bottom one is a partially finished Fast Tracks Scratchbuilt #6 turnout. If you look closely at the Atlas one you can see there is a #2-56 screw in the hole on the Frog.
Here is a closup of the turnout with the screw in place:
That is, of course, a #2-56 very short little screw... Most decent hobby stores will have them. Of course the little tiny hole in the Frog isn't threaded (so they can sell you some other way of attachment, I guess) so you will need one of these. A Tap and Die set. Actually you can just get a tap for the 2-56 and a small driver seperately, but if you are going to do a lot of building and "engineering" on your layout, you might want to get the whole set. Conversly you might be able to borrow the thing from a freind who is also into the hobby... I wire under the screw with #22 or 24 wire (short run) through a small hole drilled through the base right next to the screw.
I use Tortiose Machines to throw most turnouts on my layout so the Frog is also powered by them. I have, on several layouts in Canada, seen a small slide switch used to both throw the points and power the frog... Haven't seen them used here in the states, but.............
Once you have painted the rails a rust color and ballasted, etc. you won't even notice the screw and the "interesting" frog color. Personally I wouldn't be caught dead using the snap switch [KA-BAM!!!] from Atlas... To each their own. Here is what it looks like when done:
Good luck with whatever you decide in this!
Here is another way to power the frog without drilling and tapping the hole. I use it on all My Atlas turnouts that needed the frog powered after it was already installed. I drill a hole right through the hole that is already in the frog,,,same size. Then I strip a #24 gauge solid wire, about a 1/2'', stick it into the hole and at the end where the frog is, I put a 90 degree bend in the wire, so it rests against the side of the hole and use a 1-72 flat black head machine screw and with a little pressure with the screw driver on the screw head it will thread right into the hole. You can paint and or camouflage the screw if You like..but it is a lot smaller than a 2-56, which would work best screwed in the frog, under the turnout and a brass self-tapping screw into the bottom of the frog...it will make it's own threads. They also have on the market now, a solder that You can use to solder a wire to the frogs. It is made by Solder-It, for Aluminum and pot metal...which is what the frog is made out of. The only draw-back is that it works best with a small butane torch, so it will heat faster than an iron. I have used all three ways...the best being..installing the screw under the turnout before it is installed.....then the 1-72 screw.
The Pot Metal solder:
http://www.solder-it.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=6
Good Luck, on Your decision!
A pic' showing the 1-72 screw installed on a #4 Atlas and I lightly sand with machine grit paper to take off the baked on black paint on the rail head:
Very nice Frank! learn something new all the time. Back when I was doing mine I never knew there was any self tapping srews that small..... Nor did I know that the black was just a conductive paint that could be removed. Your work looks great!
All my new track is hand laid using Fast Tracks Jigs, so the frogs all have soldered wire for power. The connection is made where you would have to climb up onto the layout itself to be able to see it... Here is a yard area in progress. The crossover at the back has been painted. That yard is now finished.
nscsxOn the back of the box it states that if your locos stall, to power the frog with some kind of special thing that they sell from Atlas.
As mentioned, the Caboose Industries 220S ground throw is what you want. The built-in 3-connector metal contact will make the electrical connection you need and it works very well and reliably.
Yes, and that "special thing" they sell from Atlas is called a snap relay, which I've never used. The shortest wheel base locomotive I have are end-cab switchers (e. g. SW 9, S 2, etc). The Athearn BB SW 7 I have will sometimes stall on the frogs of the Atlas snap and Custom Line switches. I have found, however, that the cleaner the track and wheels, the less of those incidents I have.
I used the Caboose Industries ground throws on my layout, including the 202S, 206S, 218S, 222S, and 220S. Most of my turnouts are Atlas code 83, but any of these also work where I have Walthers/Shinohara turnouts, too.
These are affordable, very easy to install and very dependable, too. Their only drawback, in my opinion, is that they're somewhat oversize. That isn't really objectionable in person - after all, you use them with your out-of-scale fingers, but they do look a bit out of place in photographs.
Because of that, I've replaced some of them with a less-noticeable spring between the point rails (still not prototypical), and then installed Central Valley non-operational switch stands...
When I recently added a partial second level to my layout, I opted for mostly Micro Engineering turnouts, mainly because of their integral spring feature which holds the points in position. However, I wish that I had stuck with the Atlas turnouts, as they are much easier to wire for DC operation than the M.E. ones, and it would have been easier to fabric and install the homemade springs to keep them in place.
Wayne
Wayne,
I've always admired that first pic and like everything except the beastly looking HO -scale ground throws...so about 25yrs. ago, I tried using N-scale #206s ground throws on all My Atlas #4's and Shinohara #5's and found that if You measure correctly when installing them and fasten them so they are exactly solidly mounted, (I use #0 3/8'' round head wood screws, into 1/2'' Homasote) they work perfect, plus they are not as beastly looking. I don't have any problem's throwing them either. I only use them on #4's and #5's, all other switches are electrically activated.
The pic' is from a few yrs. ago, where I have a turnout in the street, that is controlled from the second ground throw, with the linkage in a brass tube buried in the ground. It has worked flawlessly, for 10yrs. now. They are the N-scale #206s's.
I determined that my small HO yard / engine servicing switching layout would be easier to complete with ground throws, rather than switch machines.
So- would the N scale versions of these Caboose ground throws be better to use, from a realism perspective? If so, are the N scale ones effective at moving the HO switch rails, despite a smaller size?
Cedarwoodron
Cedarwoodron,
I have 15 of them mainly in a ISL section of the layout, that is easy to reach them all and have only used them on Atlas #4's and Shinohara #5's and the throw distance is perfect/exact for them. To Me they work just as good as the HO scale one's, but 1/2 the size. None broke in the last 15yrs. I use the same tool for them as I do for uncoupling....wood skewer or demagnitized flat blade screw driver or even a finger nail. All I can tell You is try one.....I was hearing people say they won't work and they are too hard to throw....until I tried it Myself.......works for Me! That's really all I care about.