John,
You mentioned Sotheby's....missed the mark!!!! That is an understatement!!! In March of 1997, they auctioned off the Richard Knopff collection of fine and quite rare brass models. Their catalog had many mistakes...at least that is what I found. Glaab and Winston(Balls of Brass) found more. Many of us called Sotheby's to alert them of mistakes. They would not listen as they had their expert and that was final. My parting words to these neophytes were..." Now I know how you folks lost the Titanic in 1912". I was at the auction as were many notables in the field. I won four models...all listed wrong. I even after tried to be honest and offer returns of models as mistakes were in my favor. They said all sales were final. One such model was a Glacier painted Tenshodo GN S1 4-8-4. I paid $250 plus premium for it and upon examination realized that it was #1 of 125 of the 1979 run with working power reverse then valued at $2600. it gets worse or better depending where you are coming from. Specialization in this area is a must and knowing current values is also a must if you or others don't want to get burned.
Sorry....off message a bit...but getting back to the museum, I'm in a highly restricted residential area. I love the idea, but I'm not sure neighborhood would agree. Possibly by appointment only, but any kind of signage would not be approved. There is ample parking in the immediate area.
I have no idea if Dan Glasure would get involved. I know him well and if any person in the brass field would help...he is the one.
Since my train collection is less than 1/2 percent of my net worth and will be even less by that time, who cares.
I must echo the comments of the one person above who said they have consciously decided to "rightsize", if you will, while they are still alive...that they only have 5 locos. That is somewhat my approach: if I want something, I will get it, but I'm trying to focus now on only Texas & Pacific, which has very limited rtr offerings outside of mostly brass models and a few BLI and Athearn Genesis diesels, and of course the one new hybrid steamer...In my case, I think I can be perfectly content with a half dozen steamers as long as they are the ones I really want to have.
Others, like for example Sheldon, and Howard, love their big fleets of trains and actually need a pretty good sized fleet of trains just to even operate their layouts. So I would argue that they are in an exceptional group of model railroaders. That, and there is so much that some of them like, that it might be truly impossible to downsize to only a half dozen of anything.
I do think that making provisions for the layout to be used by one's friends after one passes on is a novel approach. Certainly, they could regularly toast one's memory while running some trains.
Ultimately either selling the model railroad with house attached, even at a loss, to a fellow kindred spirit, or setting up a museum, would be the way to go.
Howard, I know we've discussed the artistic (fine art) aspects of model trains, and yet Sotheby's and others in the collecting world seem to have somehow missed the mark as it relates to the limited edition, rare brass models themselves. What if part of setting up a museum would focus on the brass models themselves? What if leaving behind the Howard Zane House of Brass (museum) could do more for the brass hobby after one has departed than one did while one was alive? Would Dan Glasure and the other folks support such a museum? One might think they would as it would benefit their future sales and the relative stability of their livelihoods?
Another option would be to create the brass train museum on a new site, with good transportation access...but to use some of the proceeds (and models) from the current collection as the basis for said museum.
To me these are some of the questions one might consider.
John
Keep it simple.....Give it to the less fortunate, who would love to have a model railroad or train set. I'm 74, not the greatest of health, but I'm ok....I have been taking My own advice for a number of yrs. now and it not only makes them happy...but makes Me feel good also...no regrets!
My four kids and eight Grandchildren, are already taken care of...... Wives ? I had two...got rid of them yrs. ago! LOL....We are still friends...don't want to sound heartless.....but they were also taken care of!
Take Care!
Frank
trwroute My thought on this is to not accumulate stuff. I have been at this for 44 years and I have around 5 locos and a handful of cars. I have purchased more than my fair share over the years, but when I get tired of something, it goes away. My layout is tiny. I have more books than anything. Keeping it simple makes it easy on everyone.
My thought on this is to not accumulate stuff. I have been at this for 44 years and I have around 5 locos and a handful of cars. I have purchased more than my fair share over the years, but when I get tired of something, it goes away. My layout is tiny. I have more books than anything. Keeping it simple makes it easy on everyone.
I've been mulling this over and I fully agree with your thoughts..If I was young and new to the hobby or had to restart for some reason I would limit myself to modeling a short line with two or three engines and no more then 60-70 cars and a small layout. It would be a lot easier to dispose of a small collection then what the majority of us hoarded over the years..
I use the word hoarded because the majority of us has stuff we seldom if ever use or in some cases never gets built.
In my case and its the cold hearted facts that came to light not so long ago. While I have 52 engines I only use five or six simply because they are my favorites and I have over 350 cars and use my 75 favorites while the others sit in storage totes and goes unused..
Maybe I should sell off my excess while I'm still kicking.
The biggest thing is the resell value since that amount is what a customer is willing to pay and that depends on the use market prices at the time and those prices can fluctuate.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
There is a pretty straightforward answer and I'm guessing you already know what the answer is so a discussion topic pretty much academic; it's mainly in gett'n 'er done.
Downsizing the collection while you well and able to a collection of trains you can continue to enjoy in retirement. The trick is to get it do a quantity you can enjoy but will not be a huge burden on those who have to deal with it later on, something managable for the spouse or kids to deal when the inevitable happens.
If you have a huge-mega collection, it shouldn't be difficult to get serious and have a major sell-off during the near term. I imagine even knowing the "value" of trains is one thing, but another is getting what they are worth, which when someone passes away, I'm guessing that is a tall order because getting the "worth" out of models probably takes time and patience because you have to find the right customer who the model(s) are worth the valued price. So in the end, it's good to know value but how long do they want to wait before getting funds from them for those who remain.
Which comes back to, it's better to sell most of the models now while you can try to connect the model to the right buyer to get the value out of it, rather than later when others probably won't be able to make that happen as well and will likely end up having to drop the price to get the items actually sold.
Also have a will, and have instructions on the best way to deal with whatever is left after the down sizing, such as approx. value of the trains remaining (Excel Spreadsheet) and places to sell them without it being too onerous. (you know that of course)
Thats it in a nut shell. /issue resolved
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I know this is a topic most of us want to avoid, but from my experience with model railroaders, being practical seems to be a common trait. John Mock suggested the museum idea, which I am deeply honored that someone thinks that highly of my work. Actually my plan is have layout maintained by local model rails with one younger person in charge. Sandy, my wife would enjoy knowing that something of that importance to me was still intact and operating. Also she would enjoy knowing that others would enjoy visiting and playing with the pike as did I. When it comes time for her to move, a serious effort will be made to sell the house with the layout with a promise to maintain and share it.....even if the selling price relflects this deal in favor of the buyer. This is difficult, but has been done before.
As far as trains, she will have a list of values of everything, so if she elects to sell or donate, there will be a starting point.
For a period of around 12 years, I did model railroad appraisals...both for layouts, but specialized in HO brass. For a widow, knowing values is very important as there are many out there that will take advantage of the situation...offering pennies on the street value. I could tell many stories of situations where an appraisal saved literally thousands...sometimes 6 figures for the estate.
Still, I'm open for suggestions and many thanks for the replies to this thread.
HZ
Since none of my Nephews may want any of my equipment or the layout, I have my club receiving it through my will. My layout is easily disassembled and can be reassembled into a larger or smaller room. But if nobody wants it, i'm hoping the club will take as much of it as they can salvage before its final disposal.
This is an interesting question. I'm not at all comfortable with the "take it to the dump" scenario, particularly with regard to my rather expensive critters. So, I have decided to do two things:
First, I just invested in the 'Yard Office' train inventory program. I chose it based on the reviews I saw on line. It will at least tell anybody who is unfortunately involved with dealing with the aftermath of my collecting exactly (more or less) what they are dealing with.
Second, I just asked to join the Barrie Allandale Model Railroad Club. I have been a lone wolf for too long. At the very least I look forward to having some fun with them, and in the long term, perhaps they would be willing to take my collection off my wife's hands. As for the layout proper, the members will be allowed to take what they want. The rest is landfill, unfortunately.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Although I'm not a member of the local railroad club, my son's thought was to offer it to them in exchange of their removing the layout. There are 3 4X8 sections bolted together and a small section attached to a wall.
How they would use the equipment and or divy it up would be up to them.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Howard ... Thank you for bringing up an important topic.
I designed and built my layout so it is possible to move it in sections. .... Of course, it would be a gigantic pain in the neck to do so, but it can be done. It is not portable, but is movable if needed. .
There are number of buyers of estate model trains, and the heirs should consider using their services especially if there is a very large inventory of model trains.
Most model trains sell for much less as used models than what we paid for them when new. Perhaps, we should tell our loved ones now not to expect too many $'s if they sell the trains when we are gone.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
The layout is at the heart of the model railroading hobby, but it is the least salvageable piece of the hobby. The locos and rolling stock can be packaged up and sold on eBay. The electronics can also easily bring value upon sale.
But from that point on, the notion of salvage becomes somewhere between difficult and impossible. Even the track work is problematic, especially if it is glued down and ballasted. Just dismantling the layout and tossing it in a dumpster is hard work. That is the reality.
Rich
Alton Junction
You don't generally know who will go first, or when they'll go.
When I die, whoever is left behind - nieces, siblings, or plain ol' strangers - will get the joy of dealing with all my garbage. They can do whatever they want with it. I'll be dead so I won't care.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I love trains very much and yet realize there will be some burden to my wife after I'm gone...even offered to remove my layout and downsize to a smaller one, but she says "don't worry about it, it's built now." We may be looking at building another, smaller, house actually soon, and my next layout would adopt a more minimalist approach.
I'm all about the trains, and like doing trackwork and some scenery, but I don't personally require the more extensive sized pikes that some folks have. Even as we are contemplating another house, I'm contemplating a long, narrow shelf point to point layout along one basement wall of a ranch home.
The current layout would be offered free of charge to any home buyer (so that I wouldn't have to pay for help to remove it)...lol.
Howard--
Moving said layout and reinstalling it somewhere else could prove to be a considerable challenge.
Instead maybe consider placing the house and the layout in a trust so that Sandy has a place to live as long as she desires. Then also stipulate that it become a museum in its own right (assuming that local zoning laws would allow. Perhaps might need zoning exception). The trust could provide a certain level of funding for the acquisition of any new or historically significant items for the museum, upstairs, and you could also specify how much from the sales of any model railroading assets goes to whomever.
How about creating the Howard Zane Model Railroad Museum?
I've paid to see the Pennsylvania Toy Train Museum, and I'm thinking yours would already be better just based upon current inventory and dioramas, etc.
I am at peace with the idea that the stuff I spent full dollar on and value highly will be sold, at most, for pennies on the dollar. I have more than once alerted my wife that when the time comes she should pay no attention to the price tags which are still on the boxes, even of the brass. I have also told her, however, that while model trains go down in value as a rule, the same is not always true of railroad books of the better variety. If she wants to spend her time trying to recoop some of the money in my collection after my demise she'd be better off dealing with the books and let the vultures -- also known as my surviving model railroad buddies -- have at the trains.
My many maps and drawings and other railroad collectibles might or might not bring value. Thank heavens I never got into railroad china or silver because at railroad shows those folks all look very glum -- they paid huge prices just a few years ago and it seems the bottom has dropped out of the market for that subset of the railroad collectible area. One well known midwestern dealer in rail collectibles has largely converted over to selling old (and I do mean old) model trains!
Frankly if my stuff all ended up at Goodwill or Purple Heart it would be fine. Someone would get stuff cheap and hopefully get the same enjoyment out of it that I did. Heavens only knows I have bought my share of estate sale stuff for a bargain. Better it be given away than be a nightmare of trying to value and sell it.
The thing that has me more worried than the resale value of my trains or books or railroadiana, is that I do NOT want my dear wife to have to worry about scrapping the layout and benchwork. I would like to do that myself -- but when will I know it's time, as Howard Zane asks? I don't know. I am likely to miscalculate.
Dave Nelson
I have created a list of everything I own, with suggested sale prices. If I die before I can dispose of things myself, a friend has offered to sell everything, then give my wife the proceeds. (After first helping himself to items he would like to have.) As for the layout, like others note here, it is toast.
(I tried to sell my previous layout when I moved. I put up signs at the local hobby shops: "Layout for sale, $80,000. P.S. comes with house." There were no takers.)
Best story about layout disposal in this province comes from when a well-known local modeller died. Before passing, he asked some friends to take down his layout. When they took apart a large mountain, they found inside a bottle of whiskey with a note from the former owner to have a glass on him as a thank-you, and a toast to friendship.
John Longhurst, Winnipeg
If my son doesn't want it, it's being donated to the local model railroader club.
Beings I have no wife anymore and children that do not want or care about my trains I have told my kids that they or somebody else can haul everything to the dump. The kids don't want it, don't care about it and if over 200 steam and and about 75 diesels hit the dump then that is the way it is.
Howard,Last I heard Ben King's Timber City & Northwestern is intact and in a museum in Greenville,Ohio.. You may recall it was a fantastic layout even though it wasn't a very large layout..
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Howard, I don't live far from you, just put me in your will, I will take the layout down, sell off all the stuff, and give your wife half............ Seriously, over the last 10 years a number of members of our local round robin group have passed on. Each time several members of the group have helped the surviving spouse liquidate the collections - many times by getting a table at a well known train show here in Maryland......... I have items from many of my departed friends layouts, happy to have paid their spouses a far price for a few of their husbands treasures........ Sheldon, I know the structures, electronics and equipment could be sold, just the thought of some yuppie buying the house, ripping out 15,000+ hours of art and design work and replacing or filling the huge room with a gym, computers, bar and other yuppie stuff would be enough incentive for me to come back and haunt the heck out of him....and then some! At one time, my group of railroad buddies were going to keep the layout maintained for as long as Sandy, my wife elected to live there, but they or most of them already are living in the "big roundhouse". Others have moved or have gone on to other things. My two kids age 51 and 49 show no interest at all nor do my 6 grand kids....only pushing buttons on their devices. I have heard of towns or cities removing layouts and rebuilding them in new buidings for display. Harry Clark's wonderful pike seems to come to mind as I remember his town, I think Collingswood, PA did exactly this. That would be just fine for me and my family. I wrote my book not only to share, but to have a book in the Library of Congress. A legacy for my grand kids is way more important to me than funds from sales. HZ aka the nut in the basement
Howard, I don't live far from you, just put me in your will, I will take the layout down, sell off all the stuff, and give your wife half............
Seriously, over the last 10 years a number of members of our local round robin group have passed on. Each time several members of the group have helped the surviving spouse liquidate the collections - many times by getting a table at a well known train show here in Maryland.........
I have items from many of my departed friends layouts, happy to have paid their spouses a far price for a few of their husbands treasures........
Sheldon,
I know the structures, electronics and equipment could be sold, just the thought of some yuppie buying the house, ripping out 15,000+ hours of art and design work and replacing or filling the huge room with a gym, computers, bar and other yuppie stuff would be enough incentive for me to come back and haunt the heck out of him....and then some!
At one time, my group of railroad buddies were going to keep the layout maintained for as long as Sandy, my wife elected to live there, but they or most of them already are living in the "big roundhouse". Others have moved or have gone on to other things.
My two kids age 51 and 49 show no interest at all nor do my 6 grand kids....only pushing buttons on their devices.
I have heard of towns or cities removing layouts and rebuilding them in new buidings for display. Harry Clark's wonderful pike seems to come to mind as I remember his town, I think Collingswood, PA did exactly this. That would be just fine for me and my family. I wrote my book not only to share, but to have a book in the Library of Congress. A legacy for my grand kids is way more important to me than funds from sales.
HZ aka the nut in the basement
When comes my time to pass or'er the bar, my wife will uncork the bottle of bubbley she has stashed in the pantrey, then two things will happen--the crew at the town dump will have a field day, and she will get back the second living room that I have appropriated. The third happening will be the two men that I fished with over the years have to come clean all of their junk out of my garage.
My primary concern is if I have enough fire insurance.
herrinchoker
Sheldon
i have a good listing of my stuff documented. My son gets it(and the house). I have listed two friends that can assist with the dismantling, and my son is eBay savy enought to sell off the rest.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I like the idea of willing it to a museum, but the museum would have no obligation to even accept it when the time comes.
I spoke to them about this and the current management will accept it. I just turned 60 and I hope that it's a long time before anyone has to deal with this and who knows if the museum will still be in existance. But right now that's the plan.
Sad to say I have attended 2 model railroad sales after one person passed away and the other retired to a small condo, in both cases they sold a few engines and some cars but both layouts ended up in the dump as no one wanted any of or all parts of the layout, sorry I can not offer any assistance in your case, also I know of another large layout coming up shortly for disposal and I think it will result in the same trip to the dump, good luck on your mission.
First of all, the layout is just toast. Sure there have been a few attempts to save a portion of one or two very famous model railroaders like John Armstrong. I think the NMRA's future museum has had a couple stashed away for years now as they try to come up with funds to actually build the museum - I'm guessing time has taken it's toll there. But basically it's just more trouble than it's worth.
Rolling stock and buildings - both kits and RTR, both used and unused, are for my sons to take if they are interested. My middle son is into Lionel so he can have my 3 rail stuff. My grandson is 5 and likes trains so he may get a bunch as well. Otherwise the kids can sell it for whatever thay can get. I notice that most places you donate to, just sell it anyway - so the kids might as well get the money.
The one thing I really need to do, is make a list of the stuff that potentially has some value on the resale market. Even at 30% some of my locomotives are worth over $100. This way the kids have a head start on disposing of it.
But in the big picture, this is a hobby for me and I have enjoyed it for over 40 years now. It's the journey that has been important. So even if it all ends up in the dumspter I'm okay with that.
Paul
I have a couple items that are pretty valuable and/or might be of interest to certain historical societies and museums because of their regional significance. These will be offered to those groups that I designate. My will already has some provision for this, but I need to update it. The remaining items, plus the items the historical groups and museums refuse will be offered first to friends and family members. There are a few railroad fans and modelers in the extended family. Anything else will go into the estate for sale, although I realize they will not bring anything like what was spent on them. Same for the books and other stuff.
Tom
Do what my brother-in-law did. He died nearly 10 years ago and left the layout intact in his basement. It is still there today, much to his widow's chagrin.
I think my first inclination would be to ask beforehand for an honest answer from my two grandsons as to whether-or-not they would like some or all of my modest collection. If they declined, I'd try my two nephews. If they declined, I'd direct the executor for my will that the entire collection be listed on one or more auction sites and sold. I would not like it to merely be boxed up and placed in a dumpster; someone will want it, even at pennies on the dollar.
I like the idea of willing it to a museum, but the museum would have no obligation to even accept it when the time comes. Of course, neither would my grandsons/nephews, but they are much less likely to be negligent or to have no sentimental attachment to my collection.
Another idea might to be have an arrangement with a local dealer/etailer who would take it and re-sell it. There would be no cost to him, or a very low nominal price, but by receiving payment for the items they would be valued by purchasers and less likely to end up in the land fill.