I have almost 2 dozen Santa Fe Super Chief and SP Daylight passenger cars (various brands). I changed all to metal wheels, without planning for lighting. One of the Daylight cars has a "flickering light", but none of the others do. I did not notice that its wheels are differnt, but they must be. I have seen coils of led lights and even "ready to install" light strips, but none come with the needed attachment power items. I read an old thread about these, but the electronics was beyond me. I do not want to spend $10-20 per car for kits. It seems the lights are the easiest to purchase. I do know that I have to isolate the contacts "+ and -" somehow. Do I have to purchase new wheels for all these cars ? I also know some about electronics.... probably just enough to get myself into trouble. Considering once I get one car done, the others will be similar, I should be able to do it.
By the way, are the threads searchable? I tried that first (I think), without good results.
Thank you in advance, as the forums have never failed to inspire.
Always in Train-ing.
Richard,
There are some ideas in my Night Scene thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213765.aspx?page=1
Info on train lighting is scattered throughout, but near the top of Page 2 there's a simple circuit diagram that works well for DCC.
Btw, is your layout DC or DCC? because that makes a difference in what will work.
Be glad to help with any questions.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
my layout is simple dc.... nothing fancy.. I'll check out the link. Thanks. As usual, I'm still in Traind-ing, and lovn it.
OK, if DC, you'll want to go a different route than that one. Since you don't have steady power with DC, the voltage regulator won't do you much good. But there are other circuits out there which will work better for DC.
I added constant lighting to my cars. Here's the diagram I used: http://imgur.com/a/obSJx#18 Order your parts from Chinese sellers on eBay. You'll wait about a month for the parts, but it come out to about $2/car for parts and they don't give me any trouble.
If you want brighter lights, you can also experiment with using a 10k (or less) resistor instead of the 15k one. The 15k resistor gives you lights that are hardly visible in normal light, and aren't overwhelming for nighttime running.
My next step is to install raspberry pi 0's, which are $5 microprocessors, in each car. That will let me control the lighting via DCC, but that's a task for another day/week/decade...
Whale, LION runs SUBWAY TRAINS, so if you find something that will work let me know.
On subway trains of him, LION has draw bars instead of couplers, and him runs four conductors between each car. One pair is for the motors as there is a lot to be said in favor of 48 wheel pickup. The second paper is for lighting. One car has a full wave rectifier, the AC side connects to the tracks, and this gives us a standard + and - conductor for LED lighting.
This works fine whe the train is moving, but the poor lights go out when the train stops. Bateries might work as a power source, so might rechargable batteries, as will condensers. The poor Felid has not gotten something else to work, except that one fine reader here provided said lion with some specs that he will try when the weather in the train room cools down somewhat. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++BUT, *you* are not running subway trains, are you. You really do not need much lighting in passenger cars. They are turned off at night so that the passengers can sleep.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I have a string of streamliner cars in which I have tried a bunch of different lighting hookups. Flicker of the lights is the main problem to overcome. My first try was battery powered lights. I managed to secure a "type N" battery (smaller than AAA and I got it from Radio Shack) to the underside of the car, and conceal a tiny slide switch (also Radio Shack) in a molded on battery box. It works, but it was always too dim to be effective. Battery life was OK, battery would last several operating sessions.
Then I tried a super capacitor from All electronics. Only a couple of bucks for a 0.47 FARAD 5 volt cap. It would store enough 12 V track power to keep the lights on for 20 seconds after you picked the car up in your hand. The caps are fussy, they are polarized, and will self destruct if hooked up backward, and they cannot withstand more than 5 volts. So you need a rectifier to keep the polarity straight every after the reversing switch is thrown, and then a 5 volt solid state regulator to prevent over volting the 5 volt cap. It worked, but its a lotta trouble to do.
The most successful lighting scheme was a passenger car lighting bar sold by Walthers. It ran the length of car, it was bright enough, and the brightness stayed constant as track voltage varied. It did flicker, but in other respects it was OK.
Some minor things. Paint the car interior a light color, black just obsorbs too much light. And, you want a coat of paint to keep the entire car from glowing in the dark. You can find shiny silver tape to put on the ceiling to reflect light down to the windows, and prevent the roof from glowing in the dark.
Pick up juice from as many axles as possible. Avoid wheel tread wipers, go with axle wipers. The frictional drag from wheel tread wipers is just too much. Axle wipers have much less drag. Use phosphor bronze for your wipers, it is good and springy. Brass doesn't have enough spring to keep good contact. Plain old incandescent lamps work on either polarity, LED's require a full wave rectifier to keep the polarity of the juice constant. Plus incandescents look better than LEDs.
Good luck.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Guys,
Remember the OP is using DC, so let's be clear which solutions here are DCC ones and which will work for his DC system.
In general, I'm under the impression that LEDs are more difficult/complex to make work on DC than bulbs because of their need for fixed polarity, while DC switches back and forth for direction. But bulbs have lots of drawbacks, so...
The battery system is one way to use LEDs on DC simply, but then you have lots of batteries to change if you're not conscientious about turning lights off after use.
Wow! Thanks to all who added information to this. I obviously have some thinking to do.... I had thougth the redi-wired led strips would be simple.... as the ebay guy said so..... but it seems that the "old fashoned" ones might be more suitable. I'm still not certain about the wipers.... weather on the axle or against the wheels.... How is the + and - polarity isolated? One comment was to pick up from as many axels as possible. But if the axles insulate between the wheels, how does the axle pick up work? I guess I will investigate and read a lot more....
hmmm, Patience is a virtue that sometines escapes me, but that is why I am always in Train-ing.
These pictures are excellent and very helpful.... but as I said in the final post, I will need to look at options and make plans, which is why I'm always in Train-ing... Thank you much. Normally summer is the time for outdoor chores and rainy winter is my train time. But here in sunny Oregon, it's 95+, as it is elsewhere in the country, so good time for indoor hobby.
richardm47 Wow! Thanks to all who added information to this. I obviously have some thinking to do.... I had thougth the redi-wired led strips would be simple.... as the ebay guy said so.....
Wow! Thanks to all who added information to this. I obviously have some thinking to do.... I had thougth the redi-wired led strips would be simple.... as the ebay guy said so.....
Thing with LEDs is that you need a source that gives you + and - and stays that way. Easy with DCC, more complicated with DC, since you have to switch polarity to switch direction with DC. Search for "DC constant lighting" and you'll find options, just not as simple as with DCC power.
richardm47...but it seems that the "old fashoned" ones might be more suitable.
Bulbs are simplest on DC because they don't generally care about polarity. Problem is bulbs draw much more current than LEDs, they get hot, dimming requires higher wattage resistors, etc.
And bulbs burn out. So you don't want to leave them powered on the track unless you're fond of digging out and replacing the fried ones.
In contrast, I generally have DCC power on and thus the car lighting on with LED lighting and despite thousands of hours of use, haven't lost one yet due to age. I also tend to use a lot of resistance with my LEDs, further enhancing their life while I'm also enhancing their effects.
richardm47 I'm still not certain about the wipers.... weather on the axle or against the wheels.... How is the + and - polarity isolated? One comment was to pick up from as many axels as possible. But if the axles insulate between the wheels, how does the axle pick up work? I guess I will investigate and read a lot more.... hmmm, Patience is a virtue that sometines escapes me, but that is why I am always in Train-ing.
Basically, "against the wheels" with wipers means you can pickup from both rails on both trucks. Picking up from both sides means that a spot of dirty track or poor conductivity is less likely to stop things.
"On the axles" with wipers is generally taken to mean pickup from one side on each truck, although there are ways around this. This makes the car lighting they support more subject to flicker, because each truck picks up from only one side.
The + and - isolation is a problem with DC, because of the previously mentioned need to change polarity to change direction. There are circuits, but they need to be designed for use with DC. Typically, the lights come on at a low voltage, before it's high enough to turn the motor, then you leave the throttle cracked open to keep the lights on after turning it up to move the train, then back down to stop motion.
Basically, wipers require use of metal wheels. The metal wheel conducts the electricity from the rail to the wiper, which carries it onboard via a feeder wire. They need to touch either the wheel or the axle (it also needs to be conductive for this to work.)
I got "off Track" and have not started my lighting project. But winter is wet and cold in Oregon, so I'll have plenty of inside work time. I'm leaning torwars the wipers and "rice lights" as the flicker is not a big deal. I already have a single lighted car that flickers... Grandson wants the lights, for the "cool factor".... he doens'nt care that we always operate in 'daylight". While I have the cars apart, I want to add silhouettes to the windows. I have thought of creating interiors and might still, but it would seem silhouettes would be easy and inexpensive for now. A post elsewhere in the forum suggested simply 'googling" and editing photos... not that easy. several links showed cars for sale on ebay with passenger strips to instal, but I have searched several train supply sites and no passenger decals.... Any one out there have a good link? Thank you so much for information overload, I have many options to think about. Grandson is only 7, so I want something for now.... later we'll probably rebuild each car with interior and passengers and lights. I'm also AC/DC as I have 027, HO and N integrated sort of in our training area. Thanks. as usual.... I'm always Training. Richard.
Welcome back! Are there specific RR passenger decals you're looking for? Oftentimes the historical society for each line offers sets that can't be found elsewhere.
And decals are getting harder to find in general. I think Walthers is close to done and there used to be a huge source of passenger decals when they sold a lot of their kits that needed them...
There are some speciality decal outfits, but the emphasis has tended to be on freight cars. Does anyone have a rec on those that offer passenger decals?
Ahhh, for AC train lighting, you may find a better knowledge base in the Classic Toy Trains Forum. Things tend to be either DC or DCC here. If you do need to mix any or all, then you might find that a battery set-up works best, but since each tends towards use on its own track, etc infrastructure, then each could be dealt with independently, probably less complicated than one size fits all.
A simple bridge rectifier will convert ac or dc power to straight dc, and the + and - wires will remain constant, even if you run on dc power and reverse direction. Adding a capacitor will smooth out an ac power source as well as provide constant lighting any power source.
They're super useful for using led strips, and cost less than $1/each on eBay.
not looking for any specific line.... the Santa Fe and SP cars have the same window configuration.... so it's just the different car type. Some EBay cars show that they come with a decal for the windows, but I havn't found any that are after market decals. But I may investigate what brand car, and check the manufacturer. My HO is DC simple.... so I thought that I might expriment with the "rice lights" that are battery operated.... but strings of a dozen or so will be cut to 3, so there is some experimenting to do. The next note suggested the rectifier/capacitor that is in a previous note in this thread, also. ..... so maybe that's what I'll try. For now I was hoping to just put in silhouettes and avoid the lighting. Later when grandson is older we may light and put in interiors with people. Thanks for quick reply.
Mike:
I think Richard wants decals of passenger silouettes as opposed to railroad name decals.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I may have complimented you when you first sent this, but it deserves another ... Thanks for the excellent photos. I'm running simple DC . I gues I don't understand how with metal wheels , the wipers only pick up + or -, whatever side track the wheels are touching? I just thought that the metal wheels had a metal axel, as that is sometimes used as pickup. Although, as I wrote that, it wouild seem to short out.... but then how is the wheel axel insulated? So now I'm curious..... what is the electrical situaiton of the metal trucks. I like your set up, but am not sure my simple DC will work with it.
Richard:
Wheels with metal axles have an insulating bushing between one of the wheels and the axle. If you look at a wheel set you can see a small black ring around the axle on the inside of one of the wheels. Electricity coming from the tracks cannot pass through the plastic bushing to the axle, but it can through the opposite uninsulated wheel to the axle. Note that both insulated wheels must be on the same side of the truck, and the insulated wheels on the other truck must be on the opposite side of that truck.
If you use axle wipers to pick up power, that power can only come from one rail because the opposite rail is insulated from the axle by the plastic wheel bushings. Axle wipers are usually designed to make contact with both axles on one truck so each truck only picks up power from one rail. That means that only four of the eight wheels are actually sending power to the lighting system.
If you use wheel wipers then you can pick up power from all eight wheels. It doesn't matter whether the axle is metal or plastic because the axle is no longer part of the circuit. The pictures show a very nice example of wheel wipers. All wheel pickup is much more reliable.