Hi All,
I just bought an Athearn Genesis GP7 W/Tsunami DCC/Sound off someone on ebay. It was billed as like-new in box with little use but I'm pretty sure I found out why he sold it. Before I contact him, I wanted to see if there might be an easy solution to my problem.
At slow speeds the locomotive will hesitate/pause every few inches. Pause, move, pause, move, pause, move, etc. and continue this way until the throttle is increased (up to maybe 20 scale miles per hour and then it's no longer noticeable). It's far more noticible if any kind of load is attached (even just a few cars), and even more noticeable yet if it is pushing instead of pulling the cars.
The motor is very quiet, and I do not hear anything out of the ordinary such as grinding or clunking. The lights remain constantly lit while this is happening.
I cleaned the wheels with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol, and hit the track with a brite boy just in case - but I keep my rails very clean in general.
None of my other locos do this, including another Atherarn genesis GP7 that I own.
I reset the CV's to factor specs thinking maybe the he had messed with the decoder but that didn't change anything.
Any ideas?
Thanks!!
Dave
I've come to tthe conclusion that the Genesis line is composed of junk.
Almost all exhibit problems brand new out of the box like you are having.
Even the steam engines, at least my 4-8-4 did as well. Count in my DDA40X as well. Multiple club members are experiencing the same thing with the new GE's and EMD' as well.
Athearn is aware of issue as many have complained. It is electrical. I would start at ground zero and work your way thru the entire locomotive. Clean and disassemble the trucks, make sure the leads are not broken or weak there. Then move on to the motor and board leads for power. Check continuity thru all wires and at all wire connections.
Athearn used to be a gold standard of reliability and now they are creeping up to the top of the heap to be a paragon of junk.
At $200 a piece, you would think they would build quality and reliability into that price point.
This is something I would love to see MR tackle.
Nice front page AUG. issue of MR. "Is your Athearn Genesis a giant pile of junk like so many are?" Or, "Have you overpayed for an unreliable locomotive?"
That's a shame. I always thought Athearn was a name I could trust. It's a beautiful locomotive.
I'm not sure if I feel comfortable tearing into it that far. is Athearn pretty good about service? I bought this from an individual on Ebay and not a dealer, though the registration card was still in the box. It does appear to be new.
Most of my Genesis locos run well, but I do have an SD70ACE that ran very badly. Unfortunatley it was purchased secondhand here in England making returning it to Athearn too much hassle so now it is a dummy. I suspect a problem with the lightboard having tried various decoders and the motor runs well when not in the loco.
Regards Jon.
That is a bummer, but not all Athearns are junk. I have a Genesis GP40-2 that I bought new with factory DCC & sound that runs very nicely. And I have a pair of DC Genesis F3a's that I got as NOS on Ebay and they run very well too.
Good luck getting yours fixed.
This sounds a lot like there being a badly constructed speed table in the decoder. What means did you use to do the factory reset? Have you tried selecting a different factory speed table (there are more than a dozen choices, but all will be right, unlike the user-customizable one and the possibility that something was fat-fingered there)? Are you sure the decoder waas unlocked when you tried the reset?
The docs have a very specific set of instructions to ensure a factory reset, so be sure to follow it, don't just assume that entering CV 30 as 2 will work it. Did you have to re-enter the unit number when you reset? If not, you likely didn't do a full reset, which will return the unit to the default address of 3.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Get rid of the Tsunami and install a ESU Loksound or TCS Wow! sound decoder. You'll be happier for it.
It's also possible that this Athearn is a dog. I'd had two non-Genesis diesels that were poor runners so I don't bother with Athearn. The plus is they don't offer much that interests me anyhow.
Yes, chances are that the original owner didn't care for the runnability of his GP7 and he decided to recoup the cost by selling it "like-new".
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hi, Dave
I have encountered the very same situation you are dealing with. Even out of the same production run I might get three good locos and one that just wouldn't cooperate.
There have been some threads here discussing this and I'll post links to them.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/228382.aspx
If you Google *Athearn Genesis pickup problems* you'll get some links to what others have done. Mine improved by cleaning out the trucks and re-lubing with Labelle teflon grease. I used CRC 2-26* in the axle ends where they contact the bearing strip. Then after several hours of running the problem went away.
I did not invest in the NWSL wheels but it was going to be my next step.
For now read these hints from Tony's.
https://tonystrains.com/athearn-genesis-pickup-problems-fixed/
It all has to do with the axle ends encountering a bit of plastic that does not allow for full pickup.
*CRC 2-26 is great lube/contact enhancer for axles, motor bearings, bolster pins, etc. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=02005
Good Luck,
Ed
mlehman This sounds a lot like there being a badly constructed speed table in the decoder. What means did you use to do the factory reset? Have you tried selecting a different factory speed table (there are more than a dozen choices, but all will be right, unlike the user-customizable one and the possibility that something was fat-fingered there)? Are you sure the decoder waas unlocked when you tried the reset? The docs have a very specific set of instructions to ensure a factory reset, so be sure to follow it, don't just assume that entering CV 30 as 2 will work it. Did you have to re-enter the unit number when you reset? If not, you likely didn't do a full reset, which will return the unit to the default address of 3.
Thanks mlehman. The instructions called for setting CV 30 to 2 for the reset. It did revert back to the default address of 3 and no longer recognized the long address, so I assume it reset. I'm not sure how to select a different factory speed table. I'll have to look into that.
Yeah, sounds like a full reset. That should've taken care of any speed table issues. Followup on the advice for making sure you have a good electrical path would be the next thing to do.
Thanks Ed! I appreciate the information. I'll read through those links.
The fact the lights work through the process (don't even flicker?) indicates to me that it is not an electrical pickup problem at the trucks. It might be a case where the connection between the decoder and motor isn't all it should be and the motor is not getting all of the commands correctly. I've had a decoder act up simply when a wire was crimped too tightly under other wires and the shell. Check the connections leading into the plugs also.
Have you tried lubricating the motor. And checking the worm gear covers to make sure they are snug. I've had locos exhibit the "chugging" movement when a worm gear is not seated properly.
- Douglas
Correct. The lights don't even flicker when it's happening. It seems worse on curves, and on inclines as well. It's barely noticeable without cars attached, but add even one and you see it.
I've also had that performance with another brand of loco. I lubed the motor and then ran it full speed around the layout for ten minutes in both directions, and that solved the issue. I think the motors used by manufacturers may not be of the same stoutness as they were only a few years ago, or seem to need some breaking in right out of the box, but Genesis may be different.
Curves and inclines put more stress on the motor, so that symptom would be consisent with a weak, tight, or unlubed motor. Or a worm gear bindng.
You may even have a wheelset that is out of gauge.
Well, Here's my dilema. Since I purchased this on ebay and it's not running as advertised, I should qualify for my money back if the seller is not willing to give a refund. But that means I can not open it up and try some things that might fix it. It may just need some lubrication and a break in. I can't decide if I should cut my losses and try to return it, or take the gamble that I could get it working and keep it. I'm pretty happy with the price I paid and it's a beautiful loco.
What are the odds that this is an easy fix? If I keep it and can't get it working myself would Athearn fix it?
Thanks!Dave
Dave,
I think the best option is to return the loco and request a money refund. After reading all information about the issue, I think the issue is not the electrical system (bad pickup etc.). The fact that lights are not flickering at all indicate that pickup is OK.
What is then left?
It is possible that only part of decoder that controls the motor is bad, or, that there is some mechanical issue in the drive train. For example, loose cardan shaft /cup. If cardan cup is not sitting tightly on worm shaft, a locomotive could/should behave like you described. What puzzles me though is the fact that this problem is more pronounced when pushing then pulling the cars.
To exclude any of the above, a locomotive should be opened and carefully examined. To test the decoder, it should be disconnected and pulled out, connected to another locomotive (which is 100% mechanically ok) and tested. In the same time, you could directly connect motor wires to wires coming from trucks and test the loco on DC. If it runs perfectly, decoder is faulty. If the problem is still there, then either motor or some mechanical problem is causing it. If Athearn is still using Roco motor, then I would be surprised motor is faulty, but even this is possible.
Anyway, as you cannot open the loco, I think the best is to return it.
Hrvoje
P.S.
One idea. Turn the locomotive upside down and connect it to DCC, drive it at medium speed. Press gently finger on all four axles, one by one. If you notice that one or more of the axles is slipping, you have a mechanical issue. Especially if slipping occurs on just one truck - then you could be almost sure shaft/cup/worm on that truck is slipping.
You can do that without opening a loco, but be careful - do not press too hard - BEMF could cause gears/cardan to crack. While doing that, switch the sound off, you will be able to hear much better any mechanically generated noise from inside the locomotive.
Thanks Spalato68! You helped me decide what to do. I contacted the seller and submitted a return request from eBay. Hopefully it will go smoothly. I'd rather put my time and energy into weathering and running the locomotive, rather than trying to repair it. ;)
Thanks for all the replies everyone! It really helped.
Dave:
You made the right decision despite the hassle involved in returning it. You were sold a defective locomotive.
FWIW, I am not a fan of Tsunami decoders. There have been too many comments about them not running smoothly out of the box. I have one locomotive equipped with a Tsunami and I have had to spend more time trying to get it to run the way I want then I have spent on all 20 or so Loksound decoders that I own combined.
Some people love the Tsunamis because they can be tuned to run exactly the way they want. My Loksounds run exactly the way I want and I only have to give them two commands to get them to do so. They adjust themselves well enough for my needs.
I hope the return goes smoothly.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Interesting news!
Tsunami and and Athearn are now junk based on a purchase of a used loco from Ebay.
I guess I better toss my Athearn GP9's and SD40-2 equipped with Tsunami.
Dang I was really enjoying them too.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I highly doubt any new opinions were formed from this thread.
Geared Steam Interesting news! Tsunami and and Athearn are now junk based on a purchase of a used loco from Ebay. I guess I better toss my Athearn GP9's and SD40-2 equipped with Tsunami. Dang I was really enjoying them too.
I've seen a lot of Genesis that were "junk" and required work brand new out of the box. I own two examples, one is a Northern the other is a Centennial. I've also been firsthand witness to many with issues at my club as well.
I wasn't saying it to be mean or not factual, it is the truth and based on my own first hand experience.
I have 4 total and a 50% failure rate, that is the part that is sad. My two EL SDP45s have been fine from day one.
For the fairy tale prices that things are nowadays, the quality should match it. Don't accept shoddy goods.
I know the iron horse is now out of the barn, but I think I would have taken the advice to give it a "break in" run, 10 min. each direction. If possible, try it on DC and see how that worked. Most engines seem to run much better after a break-in run. It may have just been a bit of excess material on a gear that would have worked it's way out.
I've seen a lot of Genesis that were "junk" and required work brand new out of the box. I own two examples, one is a Northern the other is a Centennial. I've also been firsthand witness to many with issues at my club as well. I wasn't saying it to be mean or not factual, it is the truth and based on my own first hand experience. I have 4 total and a 50% failure rate, that is the part that is sad. My two EL SDP45s have been fine from day one. For the fairy tale prices that things are nowadays, the quality should match it. Don't accept shoddy goods.
I don't accept "shoddy goods", that's what the warranty is for.
and in the context of this thread, it's a used diesel locomotive that is the subject.
I have 3 that are fine, that's 100%, but they were purchased brand new.
The point is many jumped on the bandwagon with a "yes they suck" (including our moderator) and are basing this on a used loco with unknown history.
-dats all folks
I doubt they are basing it on the loco I posted about. But their own experiences.
wjstix I know the iron horse is now out of the barn, but I think I would have taken the advice to give it a "break in" run, 10 min. each direction. If possible, try it on DC and see how that worked. Most engines seem to run much better after a break-in run. It may have just been a bit of excess material on a gear that would have worked it's way out.
In the future try Randy's suggestion about taking an exacto to the plastic U that holds the axles. I have over 50 Genesis locomotives and four had the exact same problem you described it took me about ten minutes to shave a tiny bit off each U on each truck. They then ran beautifully. I believe they have solved this problem as all new Genesis that I have bought run flawlessly.
SB
Thanks SB, I'll remember that for the future.