I appreciate this thread and the good tips!
Been modeling a long time but I find that drilling holes for grab irons/rails on passenger cars is still a bit of a headache. That's one of the reasons why I temporarily stopped metalizing my passenger car fleet. I prefer to install the hand rails BEFORE applying the basecoat color, Alclad2 metalizer, and clearcoat.
My wife surprised me with a nice Optivisor a while back, so I will try some of the options suggested here and will practice drilling on a couple of scrap freight cars that I have. Will definitely go with the #79 drill bits instead of the #80 for the hand rails.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Well, I guess I'm one of the oddballs and prefer a good-quality (Starrett) pin vise to anything electrical for hand-drilling tiny holes. For me, a pin vise allows better control, better "feel" of the bit going into the material, and better security, as I know the tiny drill bits are held securly and won't slip in the jaws. And good lighting and a good Optivisor is also a must.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Yikes sounds like torture to me. Had to drill out a bunch of portholes on 1/700 battleship it took forever and was sick of it by the time i was done.
Modeling on the cheap
I bought a set of four good-quality pin vises from a nearby tool supply outlet, and also buy the drill bits there, usually in lots of ten for the smaller sizes.
Choking-up on the drill bit, with only the necessary amount of it protruding from the pin vise, will help to prolong bit life. I use a set of draughting dividers to mark the locations to be drilled - this is useful for maintaining the proper width for various sizes of grabs and for keeping the vertical spacing constant.This car needed 72 #79 holes for the grabirons, another 6 for the roofwalk corner grabs, plus 12 #74 holes for the corner sill steps. All of the grabirons are a non-standard size, and had to be custom bent.
I've done twelve of these cars, but most of my rolling stock has wire grabirons applied in this manner. Yet to be done are about 60 hoppers and covered hoppers.
Wayne
@Maxman, that picture is just to show the drill. I can't use it like that either. The video showed how to use it. I've been able to drill #80 holes with one. It takes light pressure on the end.
Bernd
New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds
protolancer(at)kingstonemodelworks(dot)com
Just got done drilling some holes in two flat cars, i hated it, could not get the drill to go into the plastic. Never have been able to find a drill that would go slow to do it.
BerndIt's called an Archimedes Drill. Here's a link to a U-tube video
I use mine occasionally but not with the really tiny bits. I did find that lubricating the spiral shaft with medium oil improved the smoothness of operation.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
BerndIt's called an Archimedes Drill. Here's a link to a U-tube video.
Thanks for the link. I see he uses a two-handed method.
I don't think he had a #80 bit the way it was bending toward the end of the video .
I always thought that the tool was to be used with one hand, as shown on the following link: http://miniatures.about.com/od/toolsforminiatures/p/archimedesdrill.htm
I just don't seem to be coordinated enough to get that to work.
It's called an Archimedes Drill. Here's a link to a U-tube video.
I'm intrigued by the idea of a power tool doing the hard work because I'm lazy like that. I tried rechucking the bit to get it "choked up" more so that only a little is sticking out, but there's some interference with a running board that kept me from really getting it in there. But it did get a little less flex and wobble. Centering it sure is a challenge.
I also suspect I did get a bad bit. Not a lot of curly leftover coming out, but I guess it is a very tiny bit. Poking my little hole with a pin every once in a while helped a lot and I was able to get more force (but not a lot) when I had less bit sticking out. Part of my fear is definitely because I only have the one bit. I fully expect to break it, but don't want to and delay my project!
maxman Could you link to a picture of this device? I have one of those (maybe) and it seems to require two hands to operate. Also, the bit does not turn continuously in the same direction, but rotates back and forth an amount determined by the movement of the collar on the spiral. If we are talking about the same device, I obviously am not using it properly. Thanks
Could you link to a picture of this device? I have one of those (maybe) and it seems to require two hands to operate. Also, the bit does not turn continuously in the same direction, but rotates back and forth an amount determined by the movement of the collar on the spiral. If we are talking about the same device, I obviously am not using it properly.
Thanks
Sounds like the same device. Push the collar down from the top to rotate it, slide it up and push it down again. The other hand steadies the unit from the top, which rotates in place. Takes a little practice, but does work fine.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Drilling out grabs - yeah its a hassle. You will get better at it with time. Practice does improve your speed and accuracy. You will break bits - buy them in multiples. Try not to rush the job - applying too much force will snap the bit as well as any sideways deflection.
I haven't had much luck with powered devices on rolling stock I find its too easy to slip and make permanent damage. I have had good luck on holes for NBWs in trestle bents etc, using small bits in a small bit compatable dremel chuck.
Have fun,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Hello all,
I use a Harbor Freight Tools rotary tool in the Dremel workstation along with the Micro Mark Micro Drill Chuck and quick-jaw vice.
The rotary tool has variable speeds. When placed in the workstation it becomes a micro size drill press.
The chuck closes to 0 so it can handle event the thinnest of bits. The quick-jaw vice holds the item steady for more precise drilling.
I went with this setup, rather than a small drill press, because of the versatility of using the rotary tool alone or in combination with the above items. The drill press is a uni-tasker while the rotary tool/workstation combination is a multi-tasker.
Another advantage of this setup is that it doesn't require much space while using. It is lighter than a drill press and I can break down the workstation easily for storage when not in use.
The drawback is the limitation of the bit size I can use. I also purchased a Micro Mark Universal 3-jaw chuck but the maximum bit size is 1/8-inch.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Railphotog I also have a pin vice with a spiral shaft and a collar that sits on the shaft. Holding the vice with one hand, moving the collar up and down spins the vice.
I always make a starter hole when drilling such small holes. I use an old drafting compass with a very sharp tip to press in a point to start drilling. I also have a pin vice with a spiral shaft and a collar that sits on the shaft. Holding the vice with one hand, moving the collar up and down spins the vice. As a bonus, this pin vice closes nice and tight around the smallest drill bits. When drilling in metal, I always add a drop of oil to the starter hole, makes progress better.
Chucking the bit as short as possible is very important.
I do not use #80 bits. I use #79s. The #79s do not break nearly as easily. The size difference is not noticable and the slight additional gap is quickly filled by the wicking action of the CA.
One other point. Not all drills are properly sharpened. You may get duds right out of the package. If the drill is not producing curls or bits of styrene after the first couple of turns I'd toss it and try another bit.
My number one rule for drilling with the micro bits is to have just enough of the bit hanging out to drill the depth you need.Rule number two is to hold the project very still while you are drilling,
Expect to break a few bits never buy just one.
I have had good (not perfect) success with a drill chuck meant for very small drill bits I purchased that fits into my cordless screwdriver -- the slower speed but good torque seems to help, and not having to move my hand (as I do with the pin vise) helps as well. The weight of the cordless screwdriver seems to apply just the right amount of pressure.
I break enough of the really small bits that as a rule I am almost always using a fresh or nearly fresh one and ironically, that seeme to help too.
Dave Nelson
Consider purchasing a small inexpensive benchtop drillpress. You can get one for less than $100 ( Amazon, Ebay, Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.), and it is much easier to control your drilling. Plus you get straight holes ! You may still need a pin vise in the drill chuck for micro drills.
I have stopped using my pin vise for drilling. Instead I use an electric drill/screwdriver that I bought at MicroMark. It works so much better!
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What I found when drilling is to keep as little protruding from the pin vise as possible (only as much out as hole needs be deep). If you use a battery operated drill then just take it slow. I did this on a blue box boxcar I did for practice and highly recommend if this is first time trying this to use a sacrificial car to get hang of it. Best of luck.
Ken Amos
Shanny10
B&O, C&O, PRR
Just lovin trains
I'm working on a baggage car right now and hit the point where I have to drill something like 40 #80 holes for this thing. Since starting, I've discovered a few things:
1) chucking that human hair of a drill bit is very difficult. Its hard to get it centered.
2) I'm terrified of snapping the thing, so I put basically no pressure on it and it takes forever to drill one hole.
Are there any tricks to this business?