In my area there are a few smaller shows, then two bigger ones near enough in Ohio. (Kirkland Railfest and Berea are on my list to attend nearly every year.) Kirkland and Berea are always larger shows, with lots of people in attendance.
One of the smaller shows near me I now refuse to attend. The reason being, namely, lack of reason to attend. The last time I was at said show, Nov. 2014, there was one operating layout in HO, and one small (8x8) O gauge layout. The HO layout was not operational until approxamately one hour after the show started (per a individual present in the know, explained further down in the post), and they started tear down more than 2 hours () before scheduled close! There were only a few shops with owners present, and they all began to pack up and leave when the layouts (the only two) began tear down. (The HO guys started it, as they were fully disassembled by 2:15, gone entirely shortly thereafter, then the O guys followed by being fully disassembled by 2:30. All the Vendors soon followed.) The others there selling items, all swap style excess items they no longer use, were also leaving early. (Why stay when everyone else is leaving?)
What was really irritating, to me, was I came early afternoon, show scheduled to run 10-4, I arrived about 10 minutes before 2pm due to a scheduling conflict. With just over 2 hours remaining on the schedule, I figured it should still be fine. I was charged full price admission, and everyone was starting to leave shortly after.
When I asked a store owner I knew why everyone was leaving early, he mentioned that he didn't wear his watch, and was just following the lead of the others. (He was very surprised when I told him it was now only going on for 2:15pm!) He then had his assistant get one of the promoters, and when I asked why everyone was leaving so early, he said he was unaware, and apologized for the issue. He then asked why I was "empty-handed", and was wondering if he could assist me in finding any items I was looking for. I then informed him I had just arrived only about 25 minutes prior at that point. I explained that I was annoyed that the show is scheduled for almost 2 more hours, you are still charging full price admission, and everyone is leaving already. He then apologized again, explaining that most vendors are individuals, and they might have other plans and things to do, like I had prior to attending. (I fully understood this, and this was not why I was annoyed.) I clarified my point, explaining that the groups who agreed to supply the operating layouts, both nearby (within 45 miles) clubs, should not be tearing down so early, and that if there was some issue with scheduling with the building, it should have been explained to those just arriving. (No other event scheduled, so no conflict there.) I also expressed my frustration at being charged full admission price when everyone is packing up to leave.
The promoter, trying to smooth things over, apologized again, and asked if I would return for the next show, (but come slightly earlier for a better experience), offering a discounted admission for the next show scheduled in about 6 months. (Now, no fault here, I do not blame him. But, why would I want a discount admission for another show that will end way too early 6 months from now?) No offer was made for a discounted admission for that show. (I declined this offer for the next show, expressing my disappointment that there was nothing to entice me to attend, especially if everyone is going to leave this early.....)
The promoter then apologized again, and wished me a good afternoon, and walked away. (Again, no offer for a discount or refund of admission for the show that day.) The shop owner I know was also clearly irritated that this occurred, and verbally stated to me that I should have been offered a full refund of my admission. (I would have been happy with just a partial refund, even less than half, for that current show.) He then asked if I was interested in anything he had brought. (I did get one railcar from him, which he offered me at a steep discount. I refused to let him discount it that much, as he had nothing to do with everyone else leaving early, nor the fact that I was still charged full admission. He also refused to let me pay him what he was asking everyone else, so we settled in between.)
One other vendor who was still packing up, had a "junk box" with HO scale freight cars labeled as one for $3, or 2/$5. I offered him $6 for 3 of the cars, 2 coal hoppers, one mill gon, all decent shape, all with body mounted coupler boxes, but still having plastic wheelsets, and one having horn-hook couplers, the other 2 kadee clones. He accepted.
The shop owner who I know, mentioned later on, after the next show in spring 2015, that again, everyone started packing up way early. He stated that again, the layout groups started it.
The last show there, this past March, they now have a different layout group, so it maybe better than my experience, but I have not attended the show after my last experience there. (I have not heard from anyone if it was a better experience or not.)
When I attend Kirkland and Berea however, there is almost always a very large group of attendees, including families with children, and a very large number of vendors who are there every show. I also almost always find something useful at a very good price. I have only ever been disappointed in attendance numbers once in Kirkland, and it was the crowded year where they had lost use of the main hall due to it being flooded because of a broken sprinkler head. (Really not a bigger crowd, but a smaller space than the normal one.)
Overall, the larger area shows seem to be doing quite well, but the smaller shows are a huge hit-or-miss.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
The thing I have enjoyed a lot is some of the clinics at shows. In the past, at the all-brass show that Howard ran, we had John Glaab discuss the history of HO brass. Also John (different guy) from Pecos River discussed the challenges of actually getting models made, and of course there have been some good custom paint clinics done, as well.
In general the clinics can provide some of the most "memorable" show experiences...some of us are more "entertaining" than others...
John
The last couple of shows I've been to have been well-attended, and the dealers were doing a brisk business.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
In the Allentown PA area, I typically look forward to the Fall Frost and Spring Thaw shows at the Fairgrounds.
They fill 2 large buildings with vendors and a section for modular layouts.
You get full on retail dealers and other lessor ones who follow the smaller show circuit that exists here in PA.
I would say that it is an even mix of Lionel/AF (both vintage and new) and HO and other scales.
Whenever I have gone, it seems like attendance has been good.
I can't comment on how dealer sales have been.
Our bi-annual club show has held steady with vendors attending, but ticket sales have declined to a degree. However, we are still make enough money to allow us to help pay operating expenses for the building that we own and continue to promote the show in the future.
I guess I would fall into HZ's C+ category. I'm a pretty die hard show attender and go to most of the T shows offered plus at least one Greenberg show each year, so 4 to 5 shows a year. I'm on a modest budget so I don't go loaded for bear but I bring a modest sum of cash and give the show a once over and then decide how to spend it, unless I find something I have to have during the first pass. Ocassionally there has been a show here or there where I dont' find anything I have to have and I go over to MBK and see what I can find there.
I usually try to go to the Saturday show because I've seen vendors closing up early on Sundays at some past shows. Plus it's more likely I'll find some items early on Saturday before the show has been picked over.
Last Saturday I finally sprung for Spring Mill B&O Canstock car. The Spring Mill table seemed to be sold out of the original B&O scheme but I found one at a vendor fortuately. Been thinking about getting one of those for over 2 years and finally got one. I still need one of their nice PD hoppers too - gorgeous cars.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
At one time a used to attend 6 to 8 shows a year. Now with the Internet I can shop at home at my convenience. I have been to one show in the past two years.
Bob Schuknecht At one time a used to attend 6 to 8 shows a year. Now with the Internet I can shop at home at my convenience. I have been to one show in the past two years.
The internet helps, yes. I've been using it to shop for the past 10-12 years but I enjoy going to shows as well and seeing things first hand; it's like a giant hobby shop and many good deals can be had. As always, some shows are better than others.
ricktrains4824,I've been a show dealer for 25 years, and I've never seen a show pack up 2 hours early. That's crazy. The show boss should have stopped it by threatening their invitation to next year. Or at the least, make the vendors all sign contracts that requires them to stay until a certain time or have penalties applied for the next show. Something.
As a vendor, I can say we have all packed up early at a show. Usually it's because the show is dead, and usually it's only 30 min. before the end of the show. If the show is still busy right until closing, the dealers will stay. But if no one has even walked by your table for 30 min. (and it takes you an 30 - 60 min. to tear down), you begin to think of clearing out.
Shows tend to follow a pattern: busy at first as the initial rush is on at 9 or 10AM. It dies down around noon, then there's another rush as people come in after lunch. Then it dies down again. By 3 o'clock, there's not much going on. By 3:30PM, you generally start packing up and you're out the door at 4.
Paul A. Cutler III
riogrande5761 Bob Schuknecht At one time a used to attend 6 to 8 shows a year. Now with the Internet I can shop at home at my convenience. I have been to one show in the past two years. The internet helps, yes. I've been using it to shop for the past 10-12 years but I enjoy going to shows as well and seeing things first hand; it's like a giant hobby shop and many good deals can be had. As always, some shows are better than others.
Jim,I was big on train shows and now I attend four a year.. 95% of my shopping is done on line. As for my not so local hobby shop its been awhile since I shopped there and the last time was for ABS plastics and scale 2x4s for spacers for pipe and flat sheet steel loads and a Accurail boxcar.
I spend more at the bigger Berea and Dalton shows then the other two.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Jim, I was big on train shows and now I attend four a year.. 95% of my shopping is done on line.
I've been a show dealer for 25 years, and I've never seen a show pack up 2 hours early. That's crazy. The show boss should have stopped it by threatening their invitation to next year. Or at the least, make the vendors all sign contracts that requires them to stay until a certain time or have penalties applied for the next show. Something. As a vendor, I can say we have all packed up early at a show. Usually it's because the show is dead, and usually it's only 30 min. before the end of the show. If the show is still busy right until closing, the dealers will stay. But if no one has even walked by your table for 30 min. (and it takes you an 30 - 60 min. to tear down), you begin to think of clearing out. Paul A. Cutler III
I'm sure thats true for most shows, that if it's slow, vendors start packing up early. Yes, I've never seen an entire show pack up at 2, but I recall a vendors packing up as early as 2 or 2:30 on a Sunday, although thats probably the earliest I've seen it. It probably was slow but as a customer wanting to browse, it's not nice to see them packing up before you've had a chance to see everything and knowing the show is supposed to go to 4pm. Because of vendors packing up early, I make it a point to go on Saturdays if possible to avoid getting shut out like that.
Jim,Back in the 90s I went to 10-12 shows that was within a 100 mile radius. After I entered the computer age in 2001 the number of shows I attended started dropping. Bucyrus,Berea and Dalton will survive since they are good shows.
Marion may become a drop show since the last three years I attended the only thing I bought there was a cup of coffee and a slice of apple pie.
Holy guacomole! Ten to twelve shows in a year!!! I don't know if I've ever lived within 10 miles of that many shows. Well, I guess if I count all the Greenberg shows that hit various towns in in that Radius, it might be that many. The Greenberg show has so much "schlock" that to me it's not worth it to go unless it's fairly close, which for me is Chantilly Virginia and "maybe" Fredericksberg. Timinium is roughly every 3 months but it does seem to be getting worse and even the people putting on the show have seriously considered dropping it to 3 shows. The summer show is small and not really worth such a long drive now. Yeah, not worth it for apple pie!
Because we had a couple dealers who would always start packing up about two hours before closing, our club's swap meet manager got smart. We usually sell out tables and have a small wait list. Added a note to his dealer circular: Dealers who leave early will be placed on wait list for following year. Helped a lot.
It really depends. I live in Southern California (Los Angeles metro area), with a large population, and judging by the number of hobby shops and model railroad clubs, we're doing pretty good. The larger railroad shows are being held at big convention venues like the Anaheim Convention Center (though not this year), the Orange County Fairgrounds or the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds. Then there are smaller shows and club shows all over the area. Most of them are fairly well-attended.
Now what a typical attendee gets out of them varies. For a parent bringing a kid to see trains, they're always a hit. For the railroadiana collector, they're pretty good and for the modeler, that greatly depends on scale. There's always a lot for HO scalers, and somewhat lesser for O, N, G, S and Z scales, in that order.
I'm an N scaler who prefers modern-era and modern-manufactured trains. I converted from HO nearly a decade ago and expect N scale to be more or less a smaller version of HO. I have no use for the unprototypical, toy-like N scale models manufactured before 1990, so I pass on those. Sometimes at the larger shows there will be a hobby store e-tailer or brick-and-mortar store that brought all.most their stock, and I would have a field day with that, but they're not at every show. If I pay $8 to get into a show and see nothing worth buying, I might redeem my time by dropping by some of the club layouts and saying "hi" to certain friends there, but otherwise the show would be a waste of time for me.
Athough, one of the local clubs puts on a small swap meet and open house twice a year, that's usually 70% N scale, and I usually find something to sell or buy there.
riogrande5761 Holy guacomole! Ten to twelve shows in a year!!! I don't know if I've ever lived within 10 miles of that many shows. Well, I guess if I count all the Greenberg shows that hit various towns in in that Radius, it might be that many. The Greenberg show has so much "schlock" that to me it's not worth it to go unless it's fairly close, which for me is Chantilly Virginia and "maybe" Fredericksberg. Timinium is roughly every 3 months but it does seem to be getting worse and even the people putting on the show have seriously considered dropping it to 3 shows. The summer show is small and not really worth such a long drive now. Yeah, not worth it for apple pie!
Always have wondered if it i worth my tim and cost to sell my schlock at Greenberg.
Joe Staten Island West
The last show I went to, the Plano show in Texas, in January had a clinic that I wanted to attend. The problem was, it started at 10AM. The doors didn't open until 10AM. So, I had to decide what I wanted to see more, the good bargains (!) or a clinic. The good bargains won out. Oh well. Didn't really want to see it anyway.
The clinics should have a later start time so everyone that is standing in line waiting to get in has the opportunity to attend.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
joe323Always have wondered if it i worth my tim and cost to sell my schlock at Greenberg.
Greenberg bills itself as a "train and toy" show. Looking at the website information, acceptable merchandise is "train, collectible toy, and family oriented hobby merchandise". So if you go to one of these expecting only trains I think you'll be disappointed.
I believe that I went to one of these once and they had a lot of doll house things. I'd also expect to find things like Hess trucks and other items that are classified as "collectible toy and family oriented". So you'd be getting a different type of crowd.
maxman joe323 Always have wondered if it i worth my tim and cost to sell my schlock at Greenberg. Greenberg bills itself as a "train and toy" show. Looking at the website information, acceptable merchandise is "train, collectible toy, and family oriented hobby merchandise". So if you go to one of these expecting only trains I think you'll be disappointed. I believe that I went to one of these once and they had a lot of doll house things. I'd also expect to find things like Hess trucks and other items that are classified as "collectible toy and family oriented". So you'd be getting a different type of crowd.
joe323 Always have wondered if it i worth my tim and cost to sell my schlock at Greenberg.
Bingo! Winner!
Greenberg has a lot of non-train related stuff and toys, which is why I used the word schlock. IOW, stuff I'm not interested in. Furthermore, there is a very large amount of "toy" trains such as Lionel, tin plate and the like, so if you are interested in buying HO trains, pickens are kind-of slim there although I do find things so it's worth going if it isn't a long drive - the exact point I made earlier.
Now if your "schlock" is some kind of trains, and you want to sell it there, you may get fewer customers who are focused on looking for trains because of the much MUCH higher percentage of other stuff like toys, and brick-a-brack or trains of a different kind - like tin plate or Lionel, which dominates the train part of the toy & train show.
Yes by Schlock I was referring to HO train stuff that I think will be surplus to my current layout such as EZ track rolling stock not usually found on the SIW and surplus ballast and scenery supplies.
I know Greenberg does carry a lot of tinplate Hess trucks toys etc but if you look hard enough you can find serious MR stuff too
I was at the Timonium, Great model train show on Saturday last and found it not as packed as usual. The weather outside was terrible and the parking is a good 1/4 mile hike to the doors. Lots of old guys with bum legs who wanted to stay dry probably stayed home. I'm an old guy but need to see touch and feel HOn3 stuff only found here. So, neither sleet nor snow or freezing rain.......
All the normal dealers were there. I hit my two regular HOn3 dealers and bought stuff and spent about $100 with my favorite magazine seller buying back issues of the Narrow Gauge Gazette. (now complete back thru 1977). My little scratch card given free with the ticket got me the $25.00 of "Train bucks" with which I picked up a Digitrax SD-52 dual switch decoder. (nice).
At lunch, near the concession stand, I did hear a couple of rumbles from nearby MRs saying the attendance was down. Still, a great show as always for me.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
narrow gauge nuclearAt lunch, near the concession stand, I did hear a couple of rumbles from nearby MRs saying the attendance was down. Still, a great show as always for me.
I don't get to many shows, because I don't see bothering to fight the traffic in getting to shows in the Chicago area. I tend to not put much stock in people grousing about attendance in any case. As you say Richard, the only attendance that matters is if YOU are there.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
riogrande5761Holy guacomole! Ten to twelve shows in a year!!! I don't know if I've ever lived within 10 miles of that many shows. Well, I guess if I count all the Greenberg shows that hit various towns in in that Radius, it might be that many.
Jim,I live around 1 1/2 hour drive to Columbus and there is several good shows there,add Willard,Marion,Bucyrus,Norwalk,Berea, Dalton Springfield and Lima it added up real quick. The only show we lost is the Willard show and for its size it was a good show.
Back then I was in good health and I enjoyed pointing the nose of my Ranger pickup toward a train show.
Oddly enough I have just come back from a train show here in Davenport. In the Midwest there appears to be some sort of inverse-squared rule in operation. That is I notice that some of the newer shows seem to be doing better, but the long established shows are doing worse. This is only the 5th year for the Davenport show and it was quite crowded despite the monsoon weather we are experiencing today. In contrast when the Greenberg show came to Rock Island (just across the river) this spring it was practically a ghost town the day that I attended. Both in terms of vendors and attendees. The long established Galesburg show, associated with their Railroad Days celebration in June, went through a serious contraction in size about a decade ago. Participation there seems to have stabilized somewhat the past couple of years, but not as high as I remember it in the 80's and 90's. These trends may be a classic case of the old adage "familiarity breeds contempt".
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
joe323 Yes by Schlock I was referring to HO train stuff that I think will be surplus to my current layout such as EZ track rolling stock not usually found on the SIW and surplus ballast and scenery supplies.
There is always HOSwap, HOExchange email lists, Ebay and other venues too if the show is not working.
I know Greenberg does carry a lot of tinplate Hess trucks toys etc but if you look hard enough you can find serious MR stuff too.
Definitely. I usually can find some serious MR stuff and treasures; I've usually come away from GB shows with some good items or good deals. I picked up 3 86' autobox cars at the last one for $20 for all of them, 2 were Walthers and 1 Athearn. I definitely go as long as it's not a long drive.
[/quote]
Modeling on the cheap
GATS is still going? I used to come to area's where I lived in NY but I thought it had been disbanded or change names; I haven't seen the Great American Train Show (GATS) since about 9 or 10 years ago when I lived in central NY state.
riogrande5761GATS is still going?
Maybe they changed the name to Great Train Show or Great Train Expo?
http://www.greattrainexpo.com/
I have to admit I do not get to many train shows. I like them but it seems like family events conflict with the shows. Grandkids win out over railroading.
The wife and I did 100% of our Christmas shopping on line this year. I use the Facebook groups and Ebay to get the majority of my railroad stuff and probably 95% of my purchasing or MR stuff is online. With the exception of 1 item I have been satisified with online shopping.
The local shows for me have seen a thinning of the dealer ranks, some from retirement/passing on and others just gave up. But I have seen a few new faces selling off estates of modelers that have passed on. Its these tables that draw me in as this new fangled stuff has no interest to me. I prefer craftsman kits, Athearn blue box kits in certain road names, older brass trains and G scale stuff from Kalamazoo/Hartland Locomotive Works. I also am working on a small HO scale Marklin layout, so when I stumble on that kind of stuff I am happy. Attend the Great Train Expo in Indianapolis and the throng of kids with mom and dad in tow makes it almost impossible to walk. And the kids are excited, so the interest is there, its getting mom and dad to spend the $$ for what sets(good sets for kids) cost these days. A good set from Lionel, LGB ect isn't cheap for what is just a toy to most parents. They don't see the long term benefits from model trains many times. Some of the smaller shows have died off, and some new ones have risen. I do not thing we will see an end to shows in our lifetimes, even with ebay and online shops. There is a need on both sides, online for those that live in the middle of nowhere, where even a brick and morter shop is a long drive. Shows for those that like to get out, see old friends/make new ones and search for that long out of production item they want. And the traditional brick and morter shop, which to survive in todays market place, just about has to have an e-retail side to support the shop. The shops I know that do not have this online presence are slowly dying from have to much dead inventory on the shelf. If that was offered to the masses online, it might become less dead. My wife and I enjoy shows and attend several every year. We also take my 2 live steam G scale engines to run on a portable layout and my custom Kalamazoo Toy Trains "Autism Express" passenger train. Mike and Michele T
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome