BLI vs Precison Craft Models vs MTH Electric Trains

[gmpullman]

PRR8259

Rapido's coupler is junk; I throw them away and immediately replace with Kadee

Hi, John

I was just looking for a little clarification on the "Rapido's is junk" statement. I have quite a few pieces of Rapido equipment, both locomotives and passenger cars and don't have any problems with their coupler, it is a Kadee clone.

http://rapidotrains.com/ho-scale-macdonald-cartier-rusty-magnetic-metal-knuckle-couplers/

Now for some reason the old horn-hook X2F coupler was sometimes, erroneously, called a "Rapido" coupler, which has nothing to do with Jason's group. I wonder if you were refering to those?

Regards, Ed

[PRR8259]

I believe the minimum radii for most full length HO passenger cars are 24".  There may be some at 22", but that would look bad if not pose real operational problems.

Recommended radii will vary based upon whom you talk to.  I use Kato 26.375" (converted from metric) radius curves with 28.75" radius "easement" sections at the beginning and end of every curve on the layout.  The full length cars generally operate well on those radii, but still appear a bit objectionable regarding overhang on curves.

I believe Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" recommends "conventional curves" in the 26" to 28" radius range for full length passenger operation.

You will find some cars out there like the Athearn Genesis SP coaches which are shorter, only 78' prototypes, that will work better on tight curves than the 85' full length cars.

Brass passenger cars are limited by underbody details and truck swing (against body in the case of Budd CB&Q/DRGW/WP Zephyr series cars).  These may not work on less than 28" radius curves.  I have tried them and 28" is about the minimum for many brass model full length passenger cars.  BLI must have made some truck detail compromises to get their California Zephyr cars down to a lesser radius than the brass ones available on the market, whose trucks are "fatter" and therefore have less swing before they hit the body skirting.

Note:  The tighter the radius, the more likelihood one will need Kadee long shank couplers to avoid issues with car diaphragms or even car bodies snagging each other in curves.  Rapido's coupler is junk; I throw them away and immediately replace with Kadee long shank couplers and then the cars work great.

John

 

[southernpacificgs4]

What are the minimum radii and the recommended radii for PCM models and BLI & MTH passengers cars?

[hdtvnut]

I have the Daylight, N&W, Empire State and NH cars from MTH, as well as about three hundred others from all the other guys.  I agree that the signboards on the NYC cars are attached with poor glue, but that's an easy fix.  The couplers on my Daylight cars are speced for 42" radii or more, but were OK for my 36". 

FWIW, I find MTH cars closest to RTR, with good couplers and free-rolling wheels; I also like the included lighting and interiors, but have chosen both to dim the lights and add black interior paint to parts of the observation cars.  Some sets use proto floor plans, but some are generic sets.

Half my cars are Walthers.  I don't think they offer enough for the money, making us buy add-on lighting which doesn't include OB car tailsign and markers, which I've added for some sets.  And they are too hard to get apart.  My Walthers heavyweights rolled so poorly (metal axles in metal sideframes) that having tried working on the trucks without much luck, I changed to Branchline truck kits.

The early Rapidos had warped floors, but the O-B cars are nice.

Not keen on Bachmann cars; I pull the sloppy cantilevered coupler mechanisms out and replace with KD draft boxes.

Fox Valley Hiawathas have floors not well secured, resulting in variable coupler heights.  A little glue fixed that.  The seats may be positioned correctly by the prints, but installed passengers could not be seen until I shifted the seats slightly.

The BLI CZ cars are the prettiest, but the plating on the rooves is very delicate and impossible to refurbish in that special color.   The trucks are difficult/impossible to disassemble.

Branchlines look great, but are delicate.  Also pretty much gone.

IHC's can be improved with interiors, weights, metal wheels and KD boxes, but lack interior and external detail, plus come only in two types of generic sets.

Hal

[PRR8259]

I tried some BLI California Zephyr passenger cars and was not happy with them.  The ones I had did indeed have tracking issues.  There was also excessive friction drag from the metal rollers (for the lights) that caused derailments on 26" radius curves which are fine with other makes of full length passenger equipment.  I did not like the BLI cars and found that MTH's Powhatan Arrow passenger cars were much better in actual operation on my layout, with better lighting.

Of the full length passenger cars available on the market, I perceive the other guys' cars are better.

Once I threw away Rapido's "kadee clone" coupler, and replaced them with real Kadee long shank couplers, the Rapido cars have performed superbly well--the best of any manufacturer--on my layout.

Walthers/Proto 2000 passenger cars vary.  Most perform very well.  A few of the heavyweights have bad trucks/axles, and can have consequent derailment issues--but most are good.

John

[twhite]

I have a set of the MTH "Daylight" passenger cars, and they are superb in every way--EXCEPT for the fact that their "out of the box" 22-inch radius spreads the cars apart too far and look much to "toylike".  These cars have full-width working diaphragms, so the natural tendency would be to have them if not actually touching, at least within scale closeness (your passengers shouldn't be leaping from car to car, lol).  However, adjusting the couplers to bring the cars to scale closeness somehow takes their minimum radius from 22" suddenly to 48", which makes them useless for most model railroads (my minimum radius is 36")  Since the coupler pockets are not like the BLI or Walthers passenger cars, it seems that the only way I'm going to get any kind of scale closeness that will work on my radius is to convert all of the cars to Kadee long-shank couplers and pockets.  That seems rather ridiculous, considering the money I spent on these cars to begin with.  I'm thinking that I really should have waited for the BLI sets, which I understand are much better designed for coupler closeness.    

Tom  

[cold steal]

My mth cars did not roll to well out of the box but a drop of oil in the cup of the journal made an impressive improvement.

[Paul3]

Ed,
I dunno, but a couple fellow club members bought some of the NYC cars from MTH almost a year apart from different dealers.  In each box of cars, 1 or 2 had visibly crooked name boards.  YMMV.

And just looking at eBay right now, there are a couple 2-car sets where the name boards are crooked.  Heck, there's one where both the letterboards have fallen off the sides of the car completely.

Paul A. Cutler III

[gmpullman]

Paul,

Maybe there was a bad lot of the MTH Budd cars. I just looked at all 22 of mine and the letterboards are straight. I had one pop off but it was an easy fix to tack it back on.

Rapido does a pretty good job with their passenger cars, too, but I have had operating problems with some of their earliest stuff. The Canadian Budd cars are beautiful, though.

Regards, Ed

[Paul3]

BLI is PCM.

With BLI CZ cars, from those that know these things, I've heard that they are darn near perfect cars.  There's nothing wrong with them.  They track well, roll well, and they have good lighting.  The worst thing I've ever heard about them is that the Amtrak versions still have the "California Zephyr" name board on the cars when they shouldn't be there if it's Amtrak, but that's it.

The BLI SP cars are also well thought of, except for the articulated cars.  Apparently, the articulation joint can be trouble, but I have no personal experience with it.

The MTH cars, OTOH, have quality control issues.  For example, on the NYC fluted cars, finding a car with the name boards on straight is a bit of a miracle.  And this is very noticable on fluted cars.

Paul A. Cutler III

[gmpullman]

I believe PCM is part of Broadway Limited (or vice-versa)  Either way, they merged on April 8, 2007. Many of the earlier BLI models were marketed as Precision Craft Models.

Kader and jointly with Sanda Kan, does a large volume of manufacturing for several importers.

http://www.kader.com/our_business/manufacturing_services.html

You don't mention what cars you are interested in but between BLI and MTH there really isn't too much to choose from. BLI only offers the CZ cars, some painted in post CZ paint (Amtrak, notably) or SP Daylight cars.

Sometimes you can find them discounted at BLI's refurb warehouse:

http://www.broadway-limited.com/refurbisheditems.aspx

I have two-dozen Broadway Limited California Zephyr cars and they look great and perform very well. On my first-release CZ cars the Venetian blinds were printed on the OUTSIDE of the window glass, though!

In MTH I have both the 1938 Twentieth Century Limited cars and the 1941 Empire State Express. In my opinion, the MTH cars are superior to anything else out there!

The lighting is especially nice with each car having a robust stay-alive circuit that keeps the car lights on for a good 20 seconds or more after power is off.

The MTH cars roll like ball-bearings on glass!

Interior detail is superb with table lamps in the lounges and nearly complete color combinations.

I was amazed with MTH's heavyweight cars, too, but the selection is very limited.

You can see a few photos of a pair of the PRR cars here:

 http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/245778/2747513.aspx#2747513

 

The heavyweights have slightly dimmer lighting which is appropriate for them, and it seems like the stay-alive is not quite as capacious as on the lightweights.

Basically you can only get a 12-1, a baggage car and a 10-1 open end observation car from MTH in only a few road names. You can't buy individual cars, either. Only sets of five or "add-on" sets of two. No diners, No RPOs, No coaches!

I really was hoping MTH would expand their offerings of passenger cars as I believe they offer the "best-bang-for-the-buck" you can find them discounted for around $75/car.

Hope that answers a few of your questions, let me know if you need more info on the particular cars I have.

For sheer variety, nobody beats Walthers Proto.

Good Luck, Ed

 

[mobilman44]

Mixing cars per se is not typically a problem.  However, "color matching" can be a concern - something I dealt with in putting an Illinois Central orange/brown consist together with the diesel locomotives.

[southernpacificgs4]

Which one of the three  brands is better for passenger cars?

Who has some experience with mixing the 3 brands passenger cars in a train consist?

To me it seems that they are made by the same manufacture for those 3 brands.