We are talking regular trains not cog railways or the Haifa Carmelit which are designed to go up moutains.
Joe Staten Island West
tomikawaTTBrother Lion, do I detect one of your pride directly below the red flag on the left elevated track in your photo?
Why, yes, I believe there is a LION there.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Pennsylvania Railarods Madison Hill between Cinncinati and Kentucky was 5.71 percent. I am not sure if it is still used.
The Camino, Placerville and Lake Tahoe (connected end-on to the SP at Placerville) operated with Shays - maximum 5% grade. The writeup included a note that cars would have to be heavy enough to have effective brake action when running downgrade.
Brother Lion, do I detect one of your pride directly below the red flag on the left elevated track in your photo?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
SouthPenn I don't know what percent it is, but the track up to the East Broad Top's coaling dock is steep. I believe the leads to some of the coal tipples were even steeper.
I don't know what percent it is, but the track up to the East Broad Top's coaling dock is steep.
I believe the leads to some of the coal tipples were even steeper.
Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA
gregc DavidH66 ericsp I don't know what the grade is, but the lead to Phillips 66's calcination plant looks steep. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=560973&nseq=1This was my first thought too. If the spur is uphill, mostly empties are going uphill and filled cars are going downhill, what is a practical limit on the grade? Many railroad planes in Pennsylvania were gravity driven, empties were pulled uphill by filled cars going downhill. A lone exception is the Mahanoy Plane.
DavidH66 ericsp I don't know what the grade is, but the lead to Phillips 66's calcination plant looks steep. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=560973&nseq=1This was my first thought too.
ericsp I don't know what the grade is, but the lead to Phillips 66's calcination plant looks steep.
I don't know what the grade is, but the lead to Phillips 66's calcination plant looks steep.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=560973&nseq=1This was my first thought too.
If the spur is uphill, mostly empties are going uphill and filled cars are going downhill, what is a practical limit on the grade?
Many railroad planes in Pennsylvania were gravity driven, empties were pulled uphill by filled cars going downhill. A lone exception is the Mahanoy Plane.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Take the street view from the grade crossing and it does not rise much at all. Looks like 1% or even less. The view from the side throws the prespective way off.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Grades of 4% or more are no big deal and exist all over the place on the New York City Subway. The steepest grade is 5.5% is on the Williamsburg Bridge. There is a 5.4% grade on the Manhattan Bridge, and a 4.5% grade through the Steinway Tunnels.
These grades at the 9th Avenue / 38th Street station are quite spectacular.
Of course modern subway cars (the only kind levt in service) have four traction motors on each car, and are somewhat impervious to these grades.
Layout of LION has heavy grades too.
Cass RR 11%
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
this drawing indicates a 4% grade on a DL&W coal trestle.
Would it be unusual for the spur to an industry to have a similar grade or greater if the car is lighter than a filled hopper?
tomikawaTTI was told that the switchback built to bypass a burned trestle on the Roaring Camp and Big Trees tourist railway (Felton, CA.) has a maximum 13% (!!) grade.
Actually 9.25% (Source: Roaring Camp Railroads by Beniam Kifle and Nathan Goodman; Images of Rail; 2013)
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
IIRCm Pennsy's Madison Incline was 5.9%.
The Saluda Grade hits a maximum 4.9%, averages 4.24%.
Japan's Usui Pass line was originally an Abt system rack but was rebuilt for normal adheson operation - without reducing the 6.8% grade! A four-car EMU train was given two massive Co-Co motors as 'brake helpers' downgrade. Without them, the light passenger cars would have become steel bobsleds. (The route has since been abandoned, bypassed by a Shinkansen line.)
I was told that the switchback built to bypass a burned trestle on the Roaring Camp and Big Trees tourist railway (Felton, CA.) has a maximum 13% (!!) grade.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - 2.5% mainline, 4% shortline)
Current Union Pacific specification for max grade on industrisal track is 2%.
http://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@customers/@industrialdevelopment/@operationsspecs/@specifications/documents/up_pdf_nativedocs/pdf_up_std_exhibit_a3.pdf
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Digital, your bottom line is only level across the face of the sensor in the camera. If it represented level for the ground, it would have to rise somewhat at the right. Hence, the real grade, as viewed, is somewhere in excess of about 2%...just.
In order to appreciate my point, look at the angle, relative to your bottom line, of the vertical corners of the light-coloure building in the distance. If what you say is so, that building is listing badly toward the grade, and can't be plumb at that corner.
Assuming the parking lot is completely level. Hey, it's not far, hop over and check it out in person
On an old N scale layout of mine, which is getting the sawzall this weekend, I had a siding up to a mine halfway up the mountain. Had to be about a 10% grade. It was more like a branch line than a siding. The transitions were too sudden for anything but my 3 axle plymouth switcher, and it could push no more than 1 car up the hill. Which is good, because my lack of track planning skills 12 year old self that built this thing did not have any sort of runaround at the mine or even a second track to allow for loads and empties.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I could be wrong, but I measure about a ~16 foot drop over 300 feet. That's about 5.3% (Based on the height of the trailer)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
The Flam Railway in Norway has a 5.5% grade, making it the steepest standard grade traction RR in the world and one of the Great Railroad Journeys.
https://www.visitflam.com/en/se-og-gjore/se/flamsbana-the-flam-railway/
some imageshttps://www.google.com/search?q=flam+railway+norway&biw=1280&bih=876&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkm_DN6KfLAhXIdD4KHW9bD0YQsAQIMg
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I didn't check elevations or read any descriptions, so maybe I missed some good information. However, the image, to me, doesn't show a grade more than perhaps 2%.
Severe would be anything steeper than about 2.5%. Of course, there are many steeper than that, but I don't see (readily) evidence that this one is very steep.
Back in the '60s when I commuted on the Reading there were a lot of very steep sidings going to the various industrial and warehouse buildings in center city Philadelphia. I never saw a local working the sidings because I traveled during the rush but I expect that the locomotives could only work a very few cars on each siding at a time.
Nothing unusual or spectacular - I am sorry!
The Rhaetian Railway in Switzerland has regular grades of 7 % on its Bernina line and a minumum radius of 45 m, which equates to a little over 20" in HO scale! That makes it an ideal prototype for the space starved model railroader.
The line also sports such unrealistic features like a spiral viaduct and a turntable in a shed!
Industrial track siding that I drove past several times. This has to be at least an 8% grade. I can't imagine them pulling more then 1 or 2 at a time.It doesn't look that bad when you look at the enbankment, but when you measure it out on google earth (second link) it's quite steep given the short distance.https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8149363,-76.9619086,3a,15y,55.22h,86.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFMud3iZTYEIzpN01DfJYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hanover,+PA+17331/@39.8161329,-76.9591996,676a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c85a247904d6df:0x391f3e7d71c5aa5b