Hi everyone,
I am interested in putting some flat seam roofing on the stairway and walkway roofs of a Cobleskill Coal laser kit model I'm working on. Branchline Trains provides felt paper as a kind of tar paper for it, but that's not right. Evergreen only seems to have standing seam roofing (which I've used in the past and is excellent), and Builders in Scale has plain foil strips that would work. Does anyone else make a product to mimic flat seam metal roofing in HO?
Here's a photo of the model and a prototype photo below.
Second question: who makes a good paint to do an aluminum roof paint color on the tin roof? Modeling steam/diesel transition, so pretty sure aluminum roof paint is appropriate (although correct me if I'm wrong on that).
thanks everyone,
Jim
Jim, Nice structure! Northeastern Scale Lumber Co. sells a thin alum. roofing product in HO scale which they call standing seam.
I like to use a light grey paint on alum. roofing, like S.P. Lettering Grey. To my eye alum. paint doesn't look quite right.
Regards, Peter
JimTSecond question: who makes a good paint to do an aluminum roof paint color on the tin roof? Modeling steam/diesel transition, so pretty sure aluminum roof paint is appropriate (although correct me if I'm wrong on that).
Jim,
I spray painted Tamiya silver on the exterior of my Miss Betty's diner:
Tamiya paint tends to be thin so painting it takes several applications. The spray nozzles on their cans are excellent though so the paint sprays on very evenly and smoothly.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
JimTflat seam roofing on the stairway and walkway roofs
I am not sure what flat seam roofing is, but Evergreen makes standing seam roofing. It is a flat sheet wirh grooves in it, and you glue the included scale 1x2" strips into the grooves. They do not include images on their site; you will have to copy & paste the link to make it work
http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Sheets.htm#Standing Seam Roof
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Jim T,
Look at Tamiya Flat Aluminum XF-16, resemble's same when new. I use a lot of Tamiya paint for Air-brushing and use Denatured Alcohol for thinning or their brand. When brushing...it is best to thin also, usually two coats. Your structure looks great!
Tom, The Diner looks familiar.....
Take Care!
Frank
The Tri-axle dump trailer is Tamiya Flat Aluminum:
thanks guys, keep the paint suggestions coming. The flat aluminum looks promising. Peter, I agree that normally a grey would look best, but I reason that because coal dealers were among the most successful local businesses (until people stopped buying coal for home heating), they could afford to maintain their properties. Aluminum paint would have been "the best" at mid-century. Years ago I scratchbuilt a structure with standing seams, and the aluminum paint was really a sharp look.
George, flat seam is just that: two panels either butted together and soldered at the joint, or else folded once into each other and then soldered. The picture worth the 1000 words:
http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/arch-details/basic_details/joints_and_seams1.html
You'll notice in the prototype photo the panels are installed horizontally (panels in the 1930s were 28"x96".) Flat seam works here so that rain water can run down the slope. Standing seams on the other hand would almost always be installed vertically, again the seams in that case channel the water downward.
Anyway. I think the foil products may be the only option, but in that case I think I might simply use very thin strips of styrene butted together, seeing as how it's all going to get painted. In that case maybe 1x2 scale strips laid flat on the panel edges (rather than upright) would look like the folded seams. So maybe the Evergreen product could be modified.
again, I really appreciate the help in thinking this through. It's such an excellent kit in all other respects, I'm a bit surprised that Branchline opted for black construction paper for a tar paper covering in this case, when the prototype clearly has a rusty, but metal, roof on those surfaces.
on edit: I'm staring at Tom's photo of the Tamiya silver, I think I may get both of the Tamiya paints and try them out and compare them.
Sorry that my picture is so dark. The Tamiya silver I used is either the Chrome Silver or Gloss Aluminum. I can verify that (including part #) when I'm back to OH again.
I believe that Plastruct corrugated sheeting would look pretty good on that structure. I have used it for many things, from roof/doors horizontaly...like in Roll-up. You can put it on in lap strips...maybe painted with the flat Aluminum....heavily weathered for dirt/grime.
Hard to tell from the photo...but it would not surprise Me, if they used a old type tin/steel corrugated sheeting.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/570-91509
Have Fun!
BTW: The kit bash building in the pic' has the plastruct corrugated sheeting on the doors horizontally O-scale though....the building paint is Tamiya Flat Metallic Grey XF-56 if interested:
Miss read.
Nice prototype, Jim, and a good-looking model of it.
JimT .....Anyway. I think the foil products may be the only option, but in that case I think I might simply use very thin strips of styrene butted together, seeing as how it's all going to get painted. In that case maybe 1x2 scale strips laid flat on the panel edges (rather than upright) would look like the folded seams. So maybe the Evergreen product could be modified.
.....Anyway. I think the foil products may be the only option, but in that case I think I might simply use very thin strips of styrene butted together, seeing as how it's all going to get painted. In that case maybe 1x2 scale strips laid flat on the panel edges (rather than upright) would look like the folded seams. So maybe the Evergreen product could be modified.
The folded seams would likely be okay over the walkway (they'd be vertical), but I think that lap seams would be better on the stairway roof. I'd use metal duct tape (real metal, not the fabric stuff). Since it has a paper backing, you can pre-cut all the necessary pieces, then peel off the backing when you're ready to install it. Use a smooth, hard tool to burnish each sheet as it's applied - this greatly improves the bond.
I used the tape to represent the sidesheet patches applied to ARA and X-29 boxcars - these areas were prone to rusting.
Wayne
doctorwayne Nice prototype, Jim, and a good-looking model of it. JimT .....Anyway. I think the foil products may be the only option, but in that case I think I might simply use very thin strips of styrene butted together, seeing as how it's all going to get painted. In that case maybe 1x2 scale strips laid flat on the panel edges (rather than upright) would look like the folded seams. So maybe the Evergreen product could be modified. The folded seams would likely be okay over the walkway (they'd be vertical), but I think that lap seams would be better on the stairway roof. I'd use metal duct tape (real metal, not the fabric stuff). Since it has a paper backing, you can pre-cut all the necessary pieces, then peel off the backing when you're ready to install it. Use a smooth, hard tool to burnish each sheet as it's applied - this greatly improves the bond. I used the tape to represent the sidesheet patches applied to ARA and X-29 boxcars - these areas were prone to rusting. Wayne
that metal tape is a great idea, and I appreciate the photo of how it looks on the model. I'll regret having installed the sub-roof, I wouldn't be able to put much pressure on it to burnish it. But that's a great option. I'll try to get a roll of it today or tomorrow and experiment with it. Then I'll just need the right paint.
Frank, I agree about corrugated siding looking good here, don't think I haven't given that lots of thought. Virtually every coverered stairway that I know of around here (there are several) uses corrugated material. But I've tried to keep this close to the prototype, so the flat seam look would be best. I've actually used the Campbell corrugated metal in the past and done the whole acid-etching thing . . . worked out great! if a little tedious to dip those pieces one at a time and pull them out at the right time before the dissolve completely. But what a great look.
And Tom, thanks for the color names, don't mind getting both, I'm kind of a paint collector.
JimTGeorge, flat seam is just that: two panels either butted together and soldered at the joint, or else folded once into each other and then soldered. The picture worth the 1000 words: http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/arch-details/basic_details/joints_and_seams1.html
The Evergreen standing seam is slighty different. The 1x2 strips are glued vertical to the sheet. This product could give the look of flat seam by gluing the strips flat using the grooves in the plastic sheet as a guide.
Wayne, I got a roll of the metal tape, I think that's going to work well. Will be playing with it tonight. When you paint it, how to you treat the surface? do you prime it first, scuff it at all, or just directly apply your color? thanks.
jt
For corrigated roofing in HO, I used a sheet of N scale, not sure what brand. The HO sheet looked much wide between the crimps. After painting it the silver, I drew on lines, horizontal and vertical, with a pencil to make it look like the edges of the sheets. Then I weathered each sheet seperatly.
You say the kit came with a rolled roofing. I have used fine grit (400-1500 grit) to look like rolled roofing. You can also paint it silver. I have resurfaced several tar paper roofs with silver paint.
Good luck,
Richard
cowman For corrigated roofing in HO, I used a sheet of N scale, not sure what brand. The HO sheet looked much wide between the crimps. After painting it the silver, I drew on lines, horizontal and vertical, with a pencil to make it look like the edges of the sheets. Then I weathered each sheet seperatly. You say the kit came with a rolled roofing. I have used fine grit (400-1500 grit) to look like rolled roofing. You can also paint it silver. I have resurfaced several tar paper roofs with silver paint. Good luck, Richard
Richard, I've used fine grit sandpaper as well to make my own shingles--for years there were no triangular shingles, I cut them out of sandpaper with pinking shears and then colored them with chalks. Works like a charm, and cut in strips would look great as asphalt rolled roofing as well.
Here the rolled roofing is just a kind of black construction paper. I'm not sure if I could make it look decent for anything other than felt paper--and nobody uses just felt paper for roofing, except maybe for sheds or for a temporary covering.
I think the metal tape Wayne suggested is going to do the trick. The stuff is super thin, which is great, it's virtually scale thickness. And with the adhesive backing it's basically peel-and-stick, which is WAY easier I imagine than trying to glue the Northeastern (?) foil strips. Hardest part is cutting it straight, but once that's done, clean up the dents with the metal handle of an xacto knife, and then set in place with a round toothpick. The burnishing on the roof surface works well with the toothpick as well. Here's a pic of the first couple of courses:
.
so I think this is a great solution, thanks Wayne, for the tip. I have several bottles of Tamiya paints on the way, but they won't be here until next week, I'm eager to see how it will look painted up. Now I just need to figure out the slate roof issue.
Jim, the boxcar is an old Train Miniature car. I stripped off the original paint, added a few details and the tape, then washed it for painting - just a quick dip in soapy water and a fast rinse, as I wasn't sure how much moisture the tape would take.I then used an airbrush to prime the entire car with Floquil Grey Primer, then painted it using either Floquil or PollyScale, applied with an airbrush. I was initially concerned how well the paint would adhere to the shiney foil, but it seems to stand up well to normal handling.
Looks great Jim. Matches the pattern of the original perfectly.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
doctorwayne Jim, the boxcar is an old Train Miniature car. I stripped off the original paint, added a few details and the tape, then washed it for painting - just a quick dip in soapy water and a fast rinse, as I wasn't sure how much moisture the tape would take.I then used an airbrush to prime the entire car with Floquil Grey Primer, then painted it using either Floquil or PollyScale, applied with an airbrush. I was initially concerned how well the paint would adhere to the shiney foil, but it seems to stand up well to normal handling. Wayne
Wayne, thanks for this. I'll figure out a primer to use, then put the acrylic over it. good news is that this won't get the kind of handling a freight car would.
Dave, thanks for the kind words. I actually found a couple more prototype photos that show the tin roofing more clearly:
I think the model will look pretty close when I finish the tape and paint it.
Looks great!
thanks again guys, I feel like I'm on my way with this part of the project. The only thing I feel badly about is I started cutting the sheets at a scale 28" or thereabouts. Studying those additional prototype photos, I think the original sheets must have been closer to 18 or 20 inches in width (or else they overlapped a good 6 inches of material). At this point though I'm 2/3 of the way up the roof and while I'm tempted to go back and re-install narrower strips, I don't think I'm going to do that. It's "good enough" as they say.
What I wanted to add to the thread, however, in case anyone in the future is researching this stuff, are a couple of links I found to other sites online. The first is the "Tin Roofs and Colour Schemes" section of the Maine On2 FAQ page, which covers the use of tin as roofing for Maine narrow gauge freight cars--but presumably the info here is applicable to freight cars elsewhere. Very interesting site with lots of photos:
https://maineon2faq.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/tin-roofs-and-colour-schemes/
The second site I found is a 1936 book titled Aluminum Paint and Powder which details the development, use, and history of aluminum paints. Full text with illustrations is online:
https://archive.org/details/aluminumpaintand029986mbp
Fascinating stuff if you're into the history of such things. Anyway. I'll post final photos when I have the roofing done, and thanks again for all the help.
ps. my obsessive side won out . . . I pulled the wide strips and am redoing them as 2' widths. Now that I know what I'm doing it's going much faster.
here's what the stairway roof looks like completed. I also went back and turned up the edges of the metal against the siding as flashing based on that other prototype photo above. The flashing on the original was really kind of sloppy, so I'll be generous with the paint when it arrives. Will do the other walkway roof tomorrow.
Nice!
thanks Dave. Primed the roofs earlier today while waiting for the Tamiya paints to show up in the mail. After they arrived I went straight to the flat aluminum on a test strip--loved it. So masked off the building off and gave it a shot of the aluminum. To my eye this is exactly the look I was going for. Not sure I even need a second coat, but I'll probably give it another light spray.
So once again, thanks for the great advice. I will post an update when the slate roof material comes in.