Best Method for Weathered Realistic Track?

[Anonymous]

You might like the information from several people on this thread...

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43579

[Anonymous]

Try the thread "Show me your Ballasting" of Oct 31 05

Then... "weathering Rails" of 3 Nov 05

[Anonymous]

Seeing as no answer so far to Q for help above... here's some copied stuff from my files...

I don't think that any one has said...

All the main Nickel Silver Rail makes are pretty much ok... you can pretty much mix them together.

BUT... if you mix rail size... code 100 in your staging tracks and code 83 in the scenic bit (or diferent rail sizes between main and yards...

YOU MUST... ensure that the top of the rail head is at the same height (and will stay there) at the joins.

I've seen short lengths of conversion track in Walther's catalogue. You can also shim the lower height track up to meet the higher.

You ALSO get differences in tie thickness between makes (and maybe within some makes between grades). This means that you have to take the same action to avoid problems.

I would put a length (More than a loco/longest car) between any rail /tie height change and any switch or diamond.... it would keep life more simple.

Nearer what you're looking for...

Why are you mixing such different colours of ballast?
It could happen... but usually a RR would get all of it's ballast in any one area from pretty much one source.
Ballast is HEAVY so it is usually only moved as far as it has to be.
It might come from a number of quarries but these wold be likely to be in much the same rock type unless you are in an area of very variable geology... you might get a mix of something like a hard limestone with a volcanic intrusion nearby... but I don't know US geology (It's hard enough working out which way round your country is... we (well I) think north-south... the USA goes an awful long way east-west).
Another possibility is a shift from furnace slag ballast to limestone. This would be blue/black to white becoming grey.... but the blue black could be all sorts of colours including red depending on the origin of the slag.

I'm not saying you're wrong... just trying to help out with detail. The first issue with all ballast colour is where the rock came from... in modern track. You'd pretty much have to go back before 1900 to get other than rock ballast unless the line was very cheap/broke, temporary or (maybe) serving a quarry/mine and using tailings.

I suggest that you look back through my earlier posts.

I like the notes on weathering ballast.

may I suggest...

1. Decide on what your new ballast colour would be... depending on source... look at
any examples of new work on your favourite road and in any MoW cars.
A. Then decide what way the colour is going to develop over time...events... and...
2. Decide if there have been any big changes ... i.e. material type/colour.
3. Decide how old the ballast is.
a. Heavier use/more profitable lines get re-ballasted more often.
NOTE... a massive hauler would have massive track... you don't want to put a
Challenger in the dirt... so, subject to getting in between the trains the big coal roads
had very highly maintained clean, well graded track.
b. Some lines almost never get re-ballasted... and the track may be pretty awful.
4. Decide how (if) re-ballasting has occurred.
a. Has it been cleaned right out and completely replaced?
This can happen on plain track but espescially happens when any major
alteration is made... like changing a grade, putting in an new bridge (usually
under rather than over)... this may include re-aligning a grade... when a
diamond is taken out, when switches are altered (including replaced), when a
major change in traffic (e.g. Powder basin coal) brings both sudden new
prosperity and weight of traffic, when a line is brought back into traffic, when an
adjacent or alternate route is abandoned (upgrading your route may be needed
and/or part of the deal... savings from the dead route may help pay for it... where
there has been a washout or landslide. .... where track type has been
changed... e.g. a change to concrete ties. A change in rail weight... usually
applies with traffic change.
b. Has it been taken out, cleaned and topped up... with other cleaned or new material?
This could apply in most of the above cases. New material is much more
common (here) than recycled... most recycled material goes to the construction
industry as hard base material for things like car parks... I suspect that far too
much of the original ballast has been worn down below the required size... it
may have become to "flakey" and not have a long enough anticipated life for the
work to pay off.
c. Has it just been topped up with new? (Was this from the same source)?
Top ups may have been regular (not necessarily frequent) or random. They
may be patches, short lengths or long runs. just to add interest they may be
different across the track... if material is being lost on one side... again one
side may need cleaning out more often... in the days before machine ballasting
it was less work/cost to maintain as required than to shift the whole lot out...
this means a difference in ballast by era. Gangs of men could strip out and
replace as required a machine sweeps the whole works.
5. So ballasting can have been -
almost never... yeuky mud coloured track
occasional.... frequent... layers or patches of difference
regular to a clear pattern... may be quite clear distinction between older and newer
material colours blended together or new stuff sitting on top of old... the new may be
in patches or strips (depending on how it was shoveleed out, tipped or run out of
hoppers)
a major change... either a clean or a replacement... this shows up best as a clean
break where the old stuff ends and the new work begins... this may be a patch or a
long run.
Large new works usually start from a clear feature:-
a milepost
one line in multiple lines
on three track this may be repeated with three bands of ballast (and others in
yards alongside)
junctions / switches
these work two ways... the junction or switch may have the work done and not
the plain line or vice versa. With machine worked track there is usually a gap
between the feature and the start of work ... this is often about the machine
length.
Diamonds will be done clear of the rail bars and possibly a rail length each
side where the work runs through one route or all four ways round where just the
diamond has been done. This is to make the diamond as stable as possible
and reduce bad ride in all directions... if a train crossing on one route is causing
damage it will distort the track on the other route.
Crossovers may be worked on one track or both... the one track work may be for
a short interval.... or the whole crossover plus a length or two each side may have
been done... ... and I haven't even touched on changing all or part of the rails of
switches.

So you can see that, like your highway after the utility people have been around a few times, the track ballast can be pretty patchy.

The thing is to work out the story you want to picture in your ballast.

The yards will be one story (or sets of stories)
Sidings, loops etc may be another bunch of distinct histories... a loop holding sand hoppers regularly may have a distinct strip of sand from leaking hopper doors... again you may have a big spill patch where a car has derailed or been side-swiped - usually near/at a switch- On older layouts there would be interesting effects on roads that held livestock trains... livestock needed feeding and disinfecting... weeds could be encouraged. Grain cars also spill...
Then you get to your main track(s)... what has been going on... over 50 -20- 10 - 5 - 2 - this year?

THERE IS A BIG ISSUE about spills ... especially on main tracks... the loads are supposed to get to the consignee and fuel is supposed to go up the stack NOT onto the track. Gearbox oil doesn't maintain the loco if it's on the ballast. Mucky deposits ONLY develop where there is heavy traffic over time... so... in loco yards, where locos idlle for long periods or where cars either stand as warehousing or get banged about (to shake dust out... as a by-product of switching not deliberately).

Then ther'es atmospheric pollution... look at the crud on your auto if you park near a big industrial plant... multiply that by 10s or 100s for plant and period and the track in some areas got blended to dark grey with everything else in some areas... in others the weeds came in.

What makes cleaning / replacement necessary is the infiltration of other matter and the degradation of the ballast material.

From a modelling point of view... once you've worked out your history... you want to choose your ballast colour(s)... assuning that you will use a few and then weather... you lay the oldest (usually darkest) first and then build up. Later you add the weathering.
A Black oil patch will show up much more on new ballast... but it will be much more distinct and localised. (and new ballast - a repair - will stand out like crazy in a heavily soiled length of track... possibly where the track became so clogged it wasn't draining and began to "pump" under locos and cars and has therfore been dug out and repaired... this especially occurs around rail joints.... which are a whole different subject... but look at film - especially of passenger yards in the bad days... the worst vertical track movement is almost always at rail joints... which are the weakest part of the track... almost like having a hinge in the middle of a bridge.
On old track (maybe in a yard) a white, yellow or red sand spill will show up... again in a distinct pattern... was the spill a big dump and largely cleaned up? Did it slop over the end of an over filled car? has a car with a bad door run through a few times?

These are all ways that you can build up the picture that your layout is painting... they say as much as the micro-scenes with a fender bender or a cop pulling a truck over.

Like my writing... they can go on adding forever...

Wherever maintenace is needed, in progress or recently done... or where only one side of a crossover has been completed... Slow Orders may be in force...
The slow order may be on either track of the crossover or both... depending...
You can have a track in need of work slow ordered next to a track that has just been worked but not finalised that is slow ordered.
This means that you can have a reason for all trains... including hotshots... to run slowly through your layout. If you have multiple track (2 upwards) you can slow order some and not others. There are always slow down and speed up zones either side of slow orders.

This gives you more time to enjoy your trains... also if you can only fit in a short run (so there is no way for an intermodal to get up to speed) you have a reason for traffic to run slowly... other than building a switching layout.

Whenever work is going to be done, is ongoing or has been largely completed there will be signs of material and machines being prepared for the job, standing by or waiting to be removed... sometimes old ballast as well as old ties and rail are left dumped for some time (defered maintenance...forever).

The best thing, if you can, is to go and look at the real thing SAFELY and work out what has been going on in the area you are looking at... it's a sleuthing job.

Then there is always litter that gets into/onto ballast... especially near fast food joints...

If this is good tell me and I'll dig out more :-)

[loathar]

In looking at all the real track I've seen, the rails are more of a brown than grey. I use earth brown camoflouge paint (Krylon or Rustoleum). Or Floquil roof brown or rail brown works if you want to airbrush it. I second Joe on the ballast. WS fine grey or grey blend works the best. Cheap weathering chalks work great to add color to little used spurs.(after everything is cemented down)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tsasala

David - Thanks for the great information. I looked in your sig, but didn't find anything that looked promising. Is your information contained in posts here? The search capability lacks a certain quality, so finding older material is difficult at best.

-Tom

Someone who knows how this thing works help us out please?

Try looking under anything with track / ballast / switches for a start... if you can stand a long E mail or several E mail me... I think that I've saved most of the threads I responded to on track. Be warned...there's a lot of it! [8D]

[tsasala]

David - Thanks for the great information. I looked in your sig, but didn't find anything that looked promising. Is your information contained in posts here? The search capability lacks a certain quality, so finding older material is difficult at best.

-Tom

[Anonymous]

And more...

try looking at highway surfaces... you will see distinct breaks where one authority gives way to another, repairs, new additions, old bits, damage, one effect ocross or cutting off another...same happens on railroad track.

:-)

[Anonymous]

Oh yes!

Forgot to mention... look for my comments on maintenance work on switches and crossovers. New work on a branch or spur will not USUALLY intrude into the main (except where it is a new location and the switch has had to be inserted into the main... as noted elsewhere the new ballast will run either side of the new switch to ensure that all the track through the workm is well supported).

It will help me if you ask questions that come to mind.

Have fun!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tsasala

This is directed at Joe, but I'm looking for other thoughts. How do you transition from the main line to branch and sides when it comes to weathering? I have a number of branches and sidings that I'd like to paint differently like Joe depicts, but I'm not sure where the branch color should begin or what the best (most prototypical) blending approach should be. It seems to me the branch coloring wouldn't just start, that it would blend some way.?.

-Tom

I've only just started to "compete" with Joe on track information in this forum (how am i doing Joe? Is my stuff useful?)... BUT I suggest that you take a look at my profile and all the stuff in that ,that I've written on ballast and track. Hope it's useful. (if there isn't a pile of stuff there please let me know).

It should give you some ideas about changing from main to branch (or yard, or siding, or industrial...) track...

Put as briefly as I can...

You need to consider what you are thinking of as the recent history of the track. If nothing much has been done for some while there will be differences between the tracks but it will be more blended (in colour if not material type/size) by local weathering effects. At the other end of the spectrum the differences will stand out massively.

Where new work has gone in... on whichever track... it may be on a siding or spur that has got so bad that it has had to be replaced, is actually completely new or has a new traffic that has called for and will pay for it to be upgraded. Where this work has been done it will have a distinct start point along the track AND sideways across the track (adjacent roads will still have their existing (older but not necessarily old) ballast/track.

Oh yes,... just because ballast is renewed/replaced it doesn't mean that the track will be. It may be... or not... or in a few months. Where brand new track is put in its cost will probably justify new ballast... because the ballast protects the track. Where track is cascaded (especially panels) the existing ballast may be screened and topped up with new. It is extremely rare for ballast to be cascaded to track... it usually goes as aggregate... for car parks and roads....

With me so far? [:)]

Big thing to note is that THERE WILL BE A DISTINCT BREAK OFF POINT.

BUT this will fade with time.... same as a paint patch on a boxcar... when it's new it will be distinct... years later it will be faded, maybe even partly covered by later patches, rust etc.

If you want your track to look right you are looking at all the same sort of "history" that you would look for with a freight car EACH TRACK IS UNIQUE. To some extent each tie is unique, certainly each area (if not rail length) is unique. then again, just the same as a string of hoppers that run together will have a common history any track territory will have an overall history.

It would be well worth taking the time to work out the sort(s) of thing(s) you want to depict.

When I get round to it I will try to go through a huge number of photos to select the main features that I want to include. I will probably come up with far more ideas than I can fit in. This will just be the usual matter of choosing. Unfortunatley the size of most pics doesn't usually show up the differences between such details as ballast size (largely because the variation in size is not more than 1/2" and usually less than 1/4"). What does show up is colour ... see elsewhere!

You might like to look at the pics for things that go on along the immediate side of the ballast and between tracks... there is a whole mass of stuff.

Joe's track in these pics looks really good... I'm just hoping that (if he hasn't already) he will break up the uniformity ALONG the tracks as well as across them. Again... see my other stuff.

Something else that shows up in pics is any work on the track... new ties waiting to be put in or in place, old ties taken out... etc... see elsewhere!

having worked out what you want to depict I think that Joe's methods are among the best from what he has written. The variation you might like to add is to part ballast to depth with an older ballast (probably darker) and later top up with new (probably lighter)... you could still add spillage and/or points where locos stand and stain the ballast on top of this. You can also add replaced ties, damaged ties... even new rail lengths waiting to go in, a new rail in place (will not have the weathering crud of adjacent rails) and old rail waiting to be removed.

There's TONS of stuff you can do!

Hope this helps.

Have fun!

[tsasala]

This is directed at Joe, but I'm looking for other thoughts. How do you transition from the main line to branch and sides when it comes to weathering? I have a number of branches and sidings that I'd like to paint differently like Joe depicts, but I'm not sure where the branch color should begin or what the best (most prototypical) blending approach should be. It seems to me the branch coloring wouldn't just start, that it would blend some way.?.

-Tom

[jfugate]

Bob:

That's Woodland Scenics fine gray ballast:
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/Woodland-Scenics-Ballast-Blended-Fine-Gray-Color-32-oz-with-Shaker/item785-1393.html

The darkened ties comes from observing prototype mainline trackage and weathering the model trackage accordingly. Treat the track just like you do any other model, with the proper painting and weathering and it will look *right*, as the photo demonstrates.

By the way, that's MicroEngineering flex track - code 83 for the main, and code 70 for the siding. ME track looks excellent with very tiny spikehead and tie plate detail. If you want track that will photograph well, ME track is about the best there is once you ballast and weather it. It looks even better than handlaid, IMO.

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

How about this HO model track:

(click to enlarge)

I discuss how to do this ballasting and weathering in my free online scenery clinic, here:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1315#1315

My track ballasting and weathering technique is also the cover story in MR's new How to Build Realistic Layouts special issue, due out in May 2006. I also provided a 6 minute step-by-step video that MR will be making available for viewing to go with the article.

Joe,
Fantastic ballasting job. What size and make is your ballast? The stone size looks perfect. Like the darkened ties/ ballast between the rails.
Bob K.

[jfugate]

How about this HO model track:

(click to enlarge)

I discuss how to do this ballasting and weathering in my free online scenery clinic, here:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1315#1315

My track ballasting and weathering technique is also the cover story in MR's new How to Build Realistic Layouts special issue, due out in May 2006. I also provided a 6 minute step-by-step video that MR will be making available for viewing to go with the article.


(This cover photo was taken on my HO Siskiyou Line layout)

I think Kalmbach is now offering this special issue for sale here:
https://secure.kalmbach.com/AdvantageWeb/eCirc/Offer.aspx?PromotionCode=IA5BMM1

[rexhea]

To add a bit to Antonio's post, I like to use a cloth with a plastic-safe oil on it. Just wipe the oil to the top of the rails, paint, and then wipe off top. It doesn't need but a film of oil to keep the paint from adhering to it.

REX

[AntonioFP45]

For protecting the tops of the rails you can:

An old, easy method is to apply petroleum jelly to the rail tops. Carefully wipe it off with alcohol after the paint has dried.

Another trick is to apply 3M 1/8" Fine Line masking tape to the rail tops. No clean up hassle after painting is finished.

[hminky]

I use white paint with the India ink and have had good results



I have a webpage discussing the method, I have found that white artist gesso works well. The grey paint does not work.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/weathered_track/

Hope that helps[:D][:D]
Harold
Visit the Pacific Coast Air Line Railway

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

[Anonymous]

In the January MR, page 28, Lionel Strang offers his method of painting tracks with a suggestion to protect the rail tops. you may find it useful.

[Anonymous]

I am looking for a realistic weathered track look. I have read of first applying gray spray paint followed by a wash of India Ink diluted in 70% rubbing alcohol(2 tsp to 1 pint). A two step process.

I have tried this method on some test track with mediocre results.

What works for the forum?[8D]