Help me read the posts

[hon30critter]

Ricky.

I was wondering how to state my response politely.

Thanks.

Dave

[ricktrains4824]

Sorry if asking to understand posts is "elitist" of us. 

But, I, for one, would like to understand others, and be understood.

And, I do not feel that basic understanding of each other is "elitist" in any way, shape, or form. 

Let's all just make things easy to understand, and try to get along here. It is much better that way.

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

As a trained journalist we are taught to break down large, intimidating, blocks of text to manageable, readable, blocks.

In writing it is taught that a paragraph is a series of linked thoughts related to each other.

With newspaper writing, a paragraph can be a single sentence that might or might not be related to other sentinces relating the same thought(s).

Breaking down large blocks of text might not be grammatically correct, but doing this makes the reading easier to the viewer and less intimidating.

If you doubt this, look no further than any publication intended for public consumption; newspapers, magazines, et al.

This is why I prefer doubble-spacing between paragraphs in forums over single-spaced, indented, paragraphs.

It breaks up the visual space and invites people to read indepth rather than just glance-over.

Hope this helps.

[selector]

As an accepted bond between every forumite and those with whom he/she interacts, each bears a responsibility to 'speak up.'  The poster has the obligation to make himself understood, while the person replying has the obligation to seek clarification or to respond with what she has to offer that is topical.  Wayne and I agree; it is better to let a person know that each of us experiences an impediment that leaves us confused or doubtful, and that includes requests for a more organized and clear expression, such as including some paragraphs or punctuation.  If this is done civilly, so as not to seem uncaring or snarky, it should be resolved easily.

[doctorwayne]

charlie9

Some of us are right and some of us are wrong.  Those who are right get to decided which is which.

Charlie

 

Thanks for that, Charlie.  I literally laughed out loud.   (That's LOL for the non-literate among us.)

 

Spell check, when it's working and available, usually spells American, which isn't, in many cases, English.  It's too bad that the early Americans were so angry with the British that they deliberately changed the spelling of many words (Webster apparently had an axe to grind, and in the process ground the "e" off it) and then it was decided that a gallon wasn't really a gallon.

 

The French later showed up with metric and messed things up for all of us (except, of course, my American friends who blithely carry on in their own little world). 

 

My spell check is set for British English, but that's often overridden on some sites.

 

DAVID FORTNEY

Wow what a bunch of elitists. I never knew so many of us could offend so many people who post here. For what? Spelling issues, run on sentences, etc......

I ran into a similar issue not too long after joining this Forum, and was upbraided for asking a new Member to clarify his post, which was a run-on sentence with no capitals or punctuation and poor spelling.  A number of folks jumped on me, suggesting that perhaps the person had a disability and could do no better.  After several angry reprisals, the OP chimed in with a revised version, which was at least understandable.  Who knows?  If I had said nothing, would he be here still, asking unreadable questions and getting no answers because he couldn't be understood?  Until his second effort, no one had answered his original question.

 

DAVID FORTNEY

....This is a train forum not high school, we don't need posters criticisms on how other people write their post. 

No wonder we don't have more people contributing here. 

If you don't like the post for whatever reason, then pass it by and save the rest of us your condescending comments. 

 

I disagree:  if a person cannot make their point in a manner understandable to the majority, what hope is there of them getting a useful response? 

Spelling errors, for the most part, are easy enough to overlook, but a person who speaks without pause or even taking a breath quickly becomes unintelligible, and the effect is similar when translated to the written word. 

Like most, I will make wide allowances for those for whom English is a second language, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

For someone who appears to be so disinterested in a response that they can't bother to frame their query in an understandable format, I think yes, they do need responders' criticisms.  Otherwise, will they come back if they repeatedly get no answers because no one understands them?

 

Wayne

 

EDIT:  Oh, I think that your first sentence should have read: "Wow, what a bunch of elitists.", or perhaps "Wow!  What a bunch of elitists.".

 

Just funnin', David.  I do get your point, even though I disagree with you.

 

Wayne

 

 

[dknelson]

DAVID FORTNEY

Wow what a bunch of elitists. I never knew so many of us could offend so many people who post here. For what? Spelling issues, run on sentences, etc. 

This is a train forum not high school, we don't need posters criticisms on how other people write their post. 

No wonder we don't have more people contributing here. 

If you don't like the post for whatever reason, then pass it by and save the rest of us your condescending comments. 

 

David, I don't think the real issue is spelling or even run-on sentences, but rather the cramming of an entire long post into one huge paragraph that makes it nearly impossible to read.  It is a physical appearance of the text thing, not an English grammar thing. 

 

Often a writer has put real effort into a lengthy post and simply by posting it here they obviously have a desire to communicate with others.  If communication is not taking place and thus their effort is being wasted it is hardly elitist for the others to point out how it could be improved.

 

And that is by simply creating new paragraphs, presumably each beginning with a topic sentence.  Even run-on sentences become more understandable if they are gathered into smaller paragraphs.

 

Fragments, too.

 

Dave Nelson

[selector]

Wiliam Caxton (1474) began to use three forms of punctuation in written theological texts, and it soon caught on.  From there, paragraphs, bullets, and other forms of organizing thought, but with a mind to presenting it in more intelligible and comprehensive forum (more 'readable'), soon followed.  This type of formatting has stood the test for nearly 600 years and is still the style demanded in instututions where complex thinking, analysis, and rhetoric are widely used to convey and to construct ideas.

Then, there is the common expression used orally.  They are quite different.  There is a substantial gulf between what people over 50 think should be written simply because that's how we express ourselves on fora, and what the modern multi-tasking, texting, and social media-gulping youth of today use for expression.  Naturally, this is bound to cause a bit of friction, with the inevitable eruption of discontent following soon thereafter...almost always from the older folks who can't keep up with the modern form.

BTW, about multi-tasking; it's a myth.  The late Professor Clifford Nass from Stanford studied this at some length shortly before his death and found that the only people who can come close to real multi-tasking are those who swear they've never bothered to try it.  They come close for a short period before they begin to suffer the error rates and distractions that those inveterate multi-taskers, the self-avowed, do.

[tomikawaTT]

rrebell

 

tomikawaTT

So, what's the problem?

As a devoted reader (and sometimes writer) of Science Fiction I have to contend with nouns that identify (but don't describe) some gadget or procedure that has yet to be invented.  ("Madama Lady Belfrage checked the integrity of her formfit, took a deep breath and engaged her omnicar's J-drive...") 

What is scary is I fully understood your short exerpt of SF. 

Okay:

Define:

1. Formfit.  (Extra points if you include the usual color, which Madama Dame Sally's isn't.)
2. omnicar.
3. J-drive.  (Extra points for maximum range and/or axis and direction of travel)
4. Madama, general definition.  (Extra points for identifying the subset to which Madama Belfrage belongs.)

Dame Sally, Lady Belfrage, holds what rank in the peerage of which planet?  (Extra points for defining her exact relationship to the reigning monarch.)

Which of the lady's close associates is a 37th century model railroader?  I have mentioned this on the forum, so you should know it.

As for what he models, check my signature...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - writing about the Confederation Universe circa 3626)

[riogrande5761]

BigDaddy

From posts on other forums, I know some people suffer the same affliction as I do.  We can't read large symetrical blocks of text on a computer screen.

I'll just say, any post that is a "wall of text" will usually get skipped over by me.  As you noted, its hard to read so you are not alone at all.

Anyone who wants people to read theyr post should have the foresight to break up there posts into small blocks to make it readable.  Otherwise, expect many people to ignore it and skip over. 

[rrebell]

tomikawaTT

So, what's the problem?

As a devoted reader (and sometimes writer) of Science Fiction I have to contend with nouns that identify (but don't describe) some gadget or procedure that has yet to be invented.  ("Madama Lady Belfrage checked the integrity of her formfit, took a deep breath and engaged her omnicar's J-drive...")

If I think things are getting too easy, I just reach up and to the right and pull down one of my reference volumes with the funny-looking characters down the spine.  Open it, start at the top right and read down, then left.  Solid block of characters, no spaces, little punctuation [and that not apparent as such - a phonetic ka may be part of a destroyer's name (HIJMS Akikaze) or a question mark.]  A word might be one character, or several, possibly of two different kinds.  Luckily, all are profusely illustrated.

Nihon-go, it's not for the linguistically challenged.

Chuck (Modeling Chu-o- Nihon, Kugatsu, Showa sanjukyunen - in its native language)

 

What is scary is I fully understood your short exerpt of SF.

[tstage]

as mentioned previously bad spelling i can put up with its the non punctuated non sentenced like this post that are much more difficult to decipher they go on and on and its difficult to determine where one thought begins and another starts like batman my eyes start to glaze over and i end up moving onto another thread rather than helping with the request sad but true elitism has nothing to do with it this post is a case in point

[mbinsewi]

For someone writing in here, and not on a mobile device, the spell check doesn't work.  I think it quit working back when this forum changed to a different format.

I'm not sure if that is the same for everyone, but I remember comments being made in here after the change.  I use Fire Fox, and spell check in here, if it excists, doesn't work for me.

Mike.

[BigDaddy]

Thanks Bear.  There are rules I can't cite off the top of my head about paragraphs, but I'm not talking about those.  I'm saying 3-4 lines of text on a lap top then a space makes easy reading.

I've gone out of my way to help people, in other forums that when English is their second language or people who write in ALL CAPS because the have exteme vision problems and don't know the computer tricks to magnify or enlarge the printing on their screen.

I feel sorry for those who have been cheated by the public school system.  Korean language does not have upper and lower case.  I'm too old to learn Korean and I'm to old to learn text speak practiced by 8 year olds texting sitting next to each other in reading class, sending texts back and forth. 

Elitist, no, grumpy old man who is not giving out blue ribbons for "participation", most definitely.

["JaBear"]

BigDaddy

From posts on other forums, I know some people suffer the same affliction as I do.  We can't read large symetrical blocks of text on a computer screen.  I am not picking on the newbie that posted this, nor am I the forum sheriff, I am just asking for some consideration.

elitist n. one who advocates selecting and treating certain people as an elite.

 

Having actually taken the time to read the OPs opening paragraph, I fail to see how, in any way, shape or form, he comes across as an elitist.

The Bear.

[BATMAN]

On more than one occasion people have been looking over my shoulder at my phone and ask me why my son always double text me. My answer is that I will not answer him unless he uses capitals and proper punctuation, so sometimes he has to resend his text corrected to get an answer.

He is in grade eleven and is certified bilingual in english and french and speaks spanish very well. He learned early that effort equals reward and he is free to put in as much effort and reap as much reward that goes along with it. He is being offered scholarships from universities around the world. I am lucky he got his mothers brains.

I am just a guy with a high school education and it probably shows sometimes, however it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference between those that have a hard time communicating because of the hand they were dealt in life and those that are just lazy. The former I will bend over backwards to help, however when I see a two hundred line paragraph with perfect spelling and no punctuation, I move on.

Whether you are answering a customer or asking for help, have enough courtesy to put an effort into your writing.

[ricktrains4824]

G, here i thot my spelin an runin sentansez wer fine....

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation here...  )

[NittanyLion]

gregc

 

 

NittanyLion

The Internet is an ongoing trauma for me.

 

 

what are the various shortcoming?   There must be many

 

At work, I just finished taking an 800 page document written largely by engineers, washed through review cycles with auditors at two different government agencies, and turning that into the language regular English-speaking humans use.  I've had all sorts of training about plain language writing.  It makes it difficult for me to watch football because they use...intentionally wordy phrases to eat time.  Things like "the 35 yard line of the Pittsburgh Steelers" is the sorts of things they'll say, but plain language would be "the Pittsburgh Steelers 35 yard line."  But, in the months right after I get done with my annual monster project, I can't turn it off.  I proof EVERY. SINGLE. THING. I read.  It drives me crazy.  

Most of the things people say online aren't...that bad, but its the things like the puncuation, incredibly bad spelling, or certain terms that I can't skip over without seeing.  "Should of" is probably my single biggest annoyance.  Should of?  That doesn't even make sense!  Should've, people, should've.  Short for "should have." Gah!

[charlie9]

Some of us are right and some of us are wrong.  Those who are right get to decided which is which.

Charlie

[DAVID FORTNEY]

Wow what a bunch of elitists. I never knew so many of us could offend so many people who post here. For what? Spelling issues, run on sentences, etc. 

This is a train forum not high school, we don't need posters criticisms on how other people write their post. 

No wonder we don't have more people contributing here. 

If you don't like the post for whatever reason, then pass it by and save the rest of us your condescending comments. 

[gregc]

why make it difficult for the reader?

what should you do if the writer doesn't seem to care?

[SouthPenn]

I agree. When I start to read a post with poor spelling, no punctuation, and no sentence structure, I usually move on to a different post. I do check where the poster is from though. If English is not their first language, I do my best to decipher it.

[tomikawaTT]

So, what's the problem?

As a devoted reader (and sometimes writer) of Science Fiction I have to contend with nouns that identify (but don't describe) some gadget or procedure that has yet to be invented.  ("Madama Lady Belfrage checked the integrity of her formfit, took a deep breath and engaged her omnicar's J-drive...")

If I think things are getting too easy, I just reach up and to the right and pull down one of my reference volumes with the funny-looking characters down the spine.  Open it, start at the top right and read down, then left.  Solid block of characters, no spaces, little punctuation [and that not apparent as such - a phonetic ka may be part of a destroyer's name (HIJMS Akikaze) or a question mark.]  A word might be one character, or several, possibly of two different kinds.  Luckily, all are profusely illustrated.

Nihon-go, it's not for the linguistically challenged.

Chuck (Modeling Chu-o- Nihon, Kugatsu, Showa sanjukyunen - in its native language)

[gregc]

NittanyLion

The Internet is an ongoing trauma for me.

what are the various shortcoming?   There must be many

[NittanyLion]

I'm a tech editor.

The Internet is an ongoing trauma for me.

[BroadwayLion]

It is much easier to understand "LION".

ROAR, just about says it all.

 

Breakfast anyone?

 

ROAR

[Anonymous]

galaxy

Ulrich: one reason I can't understand so much of German-even with a German-born MIL {passed :-(}- IS the one-sentence-in-one-word phrases! I remember trying to help a friend in HS study her German and the phrase "a sunday afternoon's walk in the park" {or something like it} was aobut all one word !!

That´ll be "Sonntagsnachmittagsparkspaziergang"!

[galaxy]

Yes, reading a long one text "paragraph" is harder to read,b ut some people post from their cell phones in one paragraph. When I use my phone to post here, I remember to use paragraphs apparently some may not know you CAN do paragraphs!

I am also dyslexic and that doesn't help as spell check here long ago eluded me,and it's  a hassle to type into word then copy/paste here. I have tried to be better at making what looks sensical to me look sensical to others.

 

tstgage: I found greek relatively easy, thought the spelling of some of the longer words can be a hassle. Religion is forbidden but I think I can say I studied both newer and ancient greek in order to read "the Book" as it was originally written. If not, I could always say "it's all greek to me"!!!!

I have an aramaic Bible that belonged to my Serian-born grandfather. It is easy enough to read, even though R to L, but the gutteral pronounciations I have trouble with, and he is long ago no longer alive to teach me. If I want to learn hebrew, I know a good jewish lawyer {  ;-)   }.

Ulrich: one reason I can't understand so much of German-even with a German-born MIL {passed :-(}- IS the one-sentence-in-one-word phrases! I remember trying to help a friend in HS study her German and the phrase "a sunday afternoon's walk in the park" {or something like it} was aobut all one word !!

ah well, what you go, language arts is not an exact science sometimes....especially for some people.

[Anonymous]

Try German - we put all of that in 1 (one!) word! Well, that´s what a fellow named Samuel Langhorne Clemens said about the German language.

[tstage]

I'm still tackling Greek, Lion.  Not ready for Hebrew yet.