BRAKIEAnd guys,I bought my first N Scale in 1968 and that was when N was thought to be a novelty and a joke. I even switch cars when I used Rapido couplers. Also thirty-five of my sixty years in the hobby has been in N.
In 1967-68 I went from HO to HOn30 to N
Even played with Nn3 for a while in the 1980's. I'm 70 and never looked back.
Unfortunately due to my current circumstances I am a armchair model railroader, but hope to get started on a new N scale layout soon. Trying to decide on whether to go with a switching layout based on 1950's Western Pacific R Street line in Sacramento or the Sacramento Northern Woodland Branch 1950's at or near the end of electric operation. Woodland Branch would require both overhead wire and 3rd rail although I would probably make them cosmetic.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
MicroTrains had a small line of Nn3 cars bases on models formerly produced by Nn3 pioneer Robert Sloan. Brakie is correct they did have a C&S loco too. Their Nn3 product list currently shows "no products" but some do show up on EBAY and some hobby shops still have stock. MTL's first Z freight cars were based on Sloans Nn3 but they have since been replaced by more modern true Z scale.
Republic Locomotive Works is the most complete source for Nn3
https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/
Unfortunatly a lot of what is listed is not currently available.
There are a few nice Nn3 items on Shapeways
https://www.shapeways.com/search?q=nn3&type=
There is an Nn3 Group on Yahoo.
Nn3.org lists some other sources
http://www.nn3.org/
NTRAK has a couple books on Nn3
http://ntrak.org/publications/default.html
Showcase Minatures Nn3
https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/nn3_scale/
Marklin Z scale locomotives have been the main source for powering Nn3 kit built and scratch built locomotives - particularly steamers.
https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/z-scale/locomotives/
jeffhergertWithin the last few years I did see some Nn3 freight cars at a hobby shop. You certainly don't hear of it too often.
From my information there is a small SIG that models Nn3 and MT made a very nice looking Colorado & Southern 2-6-0. I still attend the annual central Ohio N Scale weekend and read both N Scale magazines even though I'm in HO my heart is in N and always will be.
For those that may not know Nn3 runs on Z Scale track.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE angelob6660 N Scale doesn't have the materials to create it. You ever hear of Nn3? No? Its true.There is 3' N Scale. You can create EBT in N Scale and like HO it will require some modeling.
angelob6660 N Scale doesn't have the materials to create it.
You ever hear of Nn3? No? Its true.There is 3' N Scale.
You can create EBT in N Scale and like HO it will require some modeling.
Within the last few years I did see some Nn3 freight cars at a hobby shop. You certainly don't hear of it too often.
I'm in N. I changed from HO to N about 25 years ago when I moved and space became an issue. Since then I've moved twice, both time allowing more space, but I stayed in N. When I first had room for a larger layout (the middle move) I switched from bifocals to trifocal glasses. Vision has never been a problem for me.
Jeff
angelob6660N Scale doesn't have the materials to create it.
While the guy is modeling the modern East Broad Top. It looks like a tourist line. Some of the pictures I saw railroad equipment can easily be made for HO.
N Scale doesn't have the materials to create it.
Although I model N, it depends on the equipment of the railroad you're modeling to search locomotives and cars that are available to do so.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
BRAKIE doctorwayne I'm also surprised at the number of folks here who haven't heard of eyeglasses... Wayne,I fully agree seeing how many gray and white beards that is in N. As this topic has shown the biggest problem with N isn't its size but the unfounded myths and uniformed replies made by those that has never modeled in N and yes,you can tell. And all to sadly MR is one of the leading causes of misinformation about N Scale. Don't believe me? Read Mr. Otte's reply on page one. And guys,I bought my first N Scale in 1968 and that was when N was thought to be a novelty and a joke. I even switch cars when I used Rapido couplers. Also thirty-five of my sixty years in the hobby has been in N. Looking back and knowing what I know now I should have sold my HO and kept my N and I'm 69 years old.
doctorwayne I'm also surprised at the number of folks here who haven't heard of eyeglasses...
Wayne,I fully agree seeing how many gray and white beards that is in N.
As this topic has shown the biggest problem with N isn't its size but the unfounded myths and uniformed replies made by those that has never modeled in N and yes,you can tell.
And all to sadly MR is one of the leading causes of misinformation about N Scale. Don't believe me? Read Mr. Otte's reply on page one.
And guys,I bought my first N Scale in 1968 and that was when N was thought to be a novelty and a joke. I even switch cars when I used Rapido couplers. Also thirty-five of my sixty years in the hobby has been in N.
Looking back and knowing what I know now I should have sold my HO and kept my N and I'm 69 years old.
I agree with every one of your comments, and regarding Dr Wayne's comment . . . I am nearsighted, I take off my glasses to read. And regarding fat fingers and dexterity, I figure I was a watchmaker in a previous life.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Were I to start again in model railroading, I'd look pretty seriously at N scale, and I'm working in the beginning of my eighth decade. I'm also surprised at the number of folks here who haven't heard of eyeglasses...if you can't see N scale stuff, how much do you enjoy the details on your HO scale stuff?
My other choice would be Proto87, but both options are unlikely only because I'm so deeply invested into HO.My only other thought on this is that a 4'x8' cut into strips (widths to suit) can give options for a lot more interesting layout if you have the space to utilise them in that manner.
Wayne
dstarr If you are a runner of trains, N will get you more track to run on than HO. If you are a model builder, HO can be very satisfying.
Another myth that needs busting..
The facts.
One needs to do a lot of model building in N Scale simply because a lot of structures isn't there like in HO. In fact considering what's available in HO there may be more model building in N.
How do you feel about building models, of rolling stock, of structures? Kit building, kit bashing, scratch building? For myself, model building is much of the fun in model railroading. Model building is easier in HO than in N, the bits and pieces are larger and hence easier to see and to work with. And the HO makers of detail parts, bits and pieces, decals, and stuff offer a lot more stuff than the N scale makers.
If you are a runner of trains, N will get you more track to run on than HO. If you are a model builder, HO can be very satisfying.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
hlwaaserThe HO scale layout I'm now building is on a 5 1/4 x 8 table because a neigbor building an addition to his house had a scrap 15" by 8' piece of OSB that he let me take. That lets me use the 24" radius track that came with the set I bought.
You're right, 5¼' wide is a better choice than a 4X8 for standard gauge HO.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
We haven't heard from the person who started this thread in over a year. If he hasn't come to a decision by now, he's probably not going to have a model railroad of any scale.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I'm a big believer in the old 4x8 layout. Don't let the "Layout Planners" mislead you. The HO scale layout I'm now building is on a 5 1/4 x 8 table because a neigbor building an addition to his house had a scrap 15" by 8' piece of OSB that he let me take. That lets me use the 24" radius track that came with the set I bought. There is one thing I already have on my layout that you rarely see these days. When I attended a show in my hometown, I asked the guys operating the large layouts at the show, "Where do all the people live who work in the industries and businesses on your layout?" My layout has a residential section that already has 7 houses on one street with more planned on other streets around the business district. Bear in mind that you can do a better job of including more houses in N scale than you can in HO. As for two feet around three sides of the board, I have only 11 inches along one long side and it's working fine for me. Between shoulders and hips, I resemble Homer Simpson, but the belly slides above the edge of the board when I need to get over there.
Welcome to the forums. There are many, many, many discussions of scale. Perhaps you can look at real layouts in HO and N to help you decide? Seeing real cars gives you a more realistic idea of scale than asking poeple here what they prefer.
It seems that the scale debate is nearly as heated as DC vs. DCC (cue the groans). The bottom line is do what works for you and smile when someone mentions the opposite. No two people do model trains the same and that applies to exact rationale for picking scale.
Should you decide to go for N scale, bring the layout up high - as close to eye level as possible.
Which scale is this ?
When I left O scale in 1987 I chose HO over N, because N stuff didn't run very well. Now, N scale equipment runs better than HO did then, so I'd probably do N if I were starting over. I'd probably use Kato Unitrack since it's easy and reliable, and has many options in N - curves with built in grades, single and double track, overhead wire etc.
Digitrax makes Surround Sound where you don't need speakers in the engine, ideal for N or Z although the sound quality is probably better than you'd normally get in HO.
As already mentioned, you'll need a 6x10 ( or better yet 6x12 ) room, to comfortably navagate around it. What size room are you going to place this in? Can you permanently build a layout in this room, or does it have to be able to be stood on it's side for storage? if you can build a permenant layout, your best best is to do a u shaped point - to - point or a donut style run around.
I have a 10'7"x14'6" spare room. Originally I was " allowed " only half the room ( 10'7"x8' ). I too thought about the 4x8 layout, placing it on wheels. Then someone else suggested a donut style layout. So with SCARM ( track planning program ), I ened up with this:
I think this layout made me happier than going with a 4x8. Then I again got " permission " to use the whole room and ended up with this ( still building this one ):
I'm in HO, so plenty of space.
I have to say I like the detail on the HO better than N scale. Again, could be because of my eye sight. If you go N scale and like sound, try to buy the loco with sound factory installed. There sure ins't much room in the N scale for placement of the decoders/speakers. Just MHO.....
Welcome Gordie!
I am soon to be 58 and I am in N scale. One of the blessings of N scale is it allows me to run large modern locomotives like GEVOS and ACes, SD90macs and others that I would never have room for on an HO layout as well as smaller GP38s and GP15s in multiple lashups. Also I like the fact that I can handle these better than some of the newer super detailed HO locomotives because I'm not worried about knocking off detail parts that can also be hard to see and be difficult to handle.
Hope this helps, Ralph
Get to your favorite retail source of Model Railroader magazine for the current issue of Model Railroader - March 2016 that highlights small railroads, and 4'x8' layouts. This will answer a lot of questions "with actual" model railroading answers. Its not too often MRR can help answer your thoughts this quickly, concisely, let alone thoroughly! Great Model Railroads 2016 also has a nice article about Orbisonia's East Broad Top.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Wow guys!! What a wonderful response to my question. This truely is the greatest hobby with awesome people. No i'm not from England. I'm from upstate NY. The vision thing? Yes, thats a concern. I think i'll try N to start. I really want standard gauge modern diesels. But if that proves too small, maybe i'll just do HO with 1st generation diesels.
Gordie61
Most everyone has given decent reasons for there thoughts on the age old question of scale. I will not address that here since it has been well answered already,
Instead I will take this oppurtunity to welcome you to the forum and MRR. If get a chance coem visit the folks over in Jeffries Diner. We talk on and off topic there, within certain restrictions. Anyway come join us pull a stool and a hot copy of Joe ( on the house ) and join in the banter.
YGW
On the space issue, a 4x8 only requires a 6x10 area if you put it on wheels. I have a 5'4"x12' tabletop on 4 4"wheels. It rolls very easily.
If you're building an East Broad Top type layout, then tight curves are part of the charm. The original was a narrow gauge line. Also, you should use small motive power. 6 axle units are not East Broad Top
But the real problem is that no matter how you dress it up a 4x8 layout in HO is too small. Go with N scale.
Good luck
Paul
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
I say the difference is between HO and N scales is whether you prefer longer trains and higher scenery to train ratio (N scale) or if you like details (HO scale). HO equipment is highly detailed and the aftermarket manufacturers have made a million more detailed parts to add to locomotives, rolling stock, vehicles, and structures.
j.........
Steven Otte Depends on what you want out of the layout. If you'd like to run long trains through expansive scenery, N scale may be the way to go. But if you'd prefer lots of switching action, you might find coupling and uncoupling cars more convenient in HO. Likewise, if you like your trackside industries to look large enough to actually require rail service, go with N; if you'd like to realistically superdetail those industries, try HO. N scale rolling stock and structures are less expensive than HO, but you'll need to buy more of them to fill the same space. Everything's a tradeoff. One indicator that trends in only one direction, though, is age. As we get older, our eyes and hands find it harder to deal with smaller scales. You don't say how old you are, but if those are issues now, they'll only get worse. Go for the larger scale now. But if your eyes are still clear and your hands are still steady, go ahead with N.
Depends on what you want out of the layout. If you'd like to run long trains through expansive scenery, N scale may be the way to go. But if you'd prefer lots of switching action, you might find coupling and uncoupling cars more convenient in HO. Likewise, if you like your trackside industries to look large enough to actually require rail service, go with N; if you'd like to realistically superdetail those industries, try HO. N scale rolling stock and structures are less expensive than HO, but you'll need to buy more of them to fill the same space. Everything's a tradeoff.
One indicator that trends in only one direction, though, is age. As we get older, our eyes and hands find it harder to deal with smaller scales. You don't say how old you are, but if those are issues now, they'll only get worse. Go for the larger scale now. But if your eyes are still clear and your hands are still steady, go ahead with N.
Steve,That's a lot of myths..
I seen guys in their 70/80s still in N Scale.. If you checked you tube for N Scale switching layouts you will find several.
You can super detail structures,locomotives and rolling stock.
Anything that can be done in HO can be done in N scale.
The biggest thing to remember is today's N Scale isn't the N Scale from the 70/80s. One can even sound equipped their locomotives.
Steven OtteBut if you'd prefer lots of switching action, you might find coupling and uncoupling cars more convenient in HO.
Switching works fine for me in N scale -- and I am a little ham-fisted and have had cataract surgery.
There are numerous examples of N scale switching layouts, more than a few published in MR.
Steven OtteN scale rolling stock and structures are less expensive than HO, but you'll need to buy more of them to fill the same space.
Not if one has even a little self-control. One of the great advantages of N scale in a given area is the ability to add more "air" to the layout in terms of running length and room between structures and industries. One doesn't need to "fill" all the space with track and models.
And, as others have noted, if the Original Poster's interests run to modern equipment (which is larger), the 18"/22" minimum radius limitation of the 4X8 sheet may prove frustrating quite soon.
HO scale is fine, N scale is fine. Newcomers should be encouraged to visit a hobby shop or train show to see examples of each so that they may choose for themselves.
There's no rule that says that the 4X8 sheet must remain uncut, of course.
ricktrains48244x8 really, if you ask the experts, needs a 6x12, or a 8x10, depending on orientation, minimum space, allowing 2 feet on 3 sides for access.
Here's an article that explains this concept in more detail:
http://www.layoutvision.com/id28.html
It's been referenced on the forum enough times that it should be a "sticky" by now.
And BTW, If I were building an EBT layout, I'd do it in HO narrow gauge.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.