I am surprised a mass produced NYC heavyweight baggage car didn't follow the PRR B70 baggage Walthers made (thank you Walthers!) Not data to support this, but its got to be one of the most common baggage cars. Harriman would probably be next. Mail and Express trains are neat - and you can probably mix a few foreign road cars to add variety.
DL&W "Boonton" coaches and combines. They are currently used on the Arcade and Attica Railroad. Funero and Camerlengo once offered them, but for the past 13 years they have been "in the works."
Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/
I really want the Branchline Undecorated Heavywieght Observation and Baggage cars that were never made. An RPO would be nice too. I know they will never exist, and that fact saddens me.
.
Other than that, I am happy. One of the endless advantages to freelancing is that I always have a model available that exactly matches what my prototype used.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
So I guess we'll never see an HO Scale Southern Crescent or Hummningbird then?
Really it's too bad, The manufacturers could release a few nich roadnames alongside the standard tired fare that way sales won't be affected too much.
These niche roads give my collection some texture and delay the repetition. I also like to see the unusal/homebuilt cabooses each road had.
Perhaps freight cars sell better than passenger cars?
Me? Oh, they probably make them in HO, but what I remember is the sheer size of these things.
I had a GG-1 and a few coaches in Lionel O scale when I was a kid. I still see a coach now and then at a train show, and I always stop to admire it. There was just something awe inspiring about them.
I've acquired a non-prototypical consist of streamliners, which gives me some of that same happiness, but they will never match the Lionels.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I know this is an old post, but I didn't see anybody answer this question directly.
hobo9941 How do they know they won't sell if they don't make them? I suspect there may be a lot of pent up demand for those roads. I have been looking for smooth side and Budd L and N cars with little luck
That's a good question. They don't. Each manufacturer is different, but it comes down to perceived demand. But most of the time they'll explore the possibility by looking online, talking to customers at shows, and from historical societies.
Passenger cars are more expensive to manufacture than a freight car. Even if you're doing simplified underframes and no interior, it's a larger car, and has windows. But nowadays people expect an interior, and a decent amount of detail under the car too.
There are an enormous number of passenger car prototypes, but few of those are used across multiple roads. Which means that instead of selling to the entire modeling community for the appropriate era, you've limited yourself to modelers of a couple of roads, if not a single road. They do run for a long time, so you can cover a number of eras and different paint schemes which is a plus.
Each manufacturer has their own quantity minimums, but let's say you need to sell 2,000 units to break even. That's a lot of cars to sell to a small number of modelers on spec.
And that's the ultimate problem, the manufacturer has to pay out all of the money first, in the hopes that they'll sell enough to get their money back. If they don't, they may be in significant financial trouble. Tooling for a passenger car can run upwards of $100,000+. You may also be paying development costs (R&D, CAD, etc.). Then you have to pay for the production run. Maybe another $50,000-$100,000 if not much more. You pay for shipping from the factory, then again to ship to the dealers. Then you wait - dealers often have up to 30 days to pay.
The project itself might take a year or two, maybe more. So you've outlaid as much as a quarter-of-a-million+ in cash, and don't recoup until a couple of years after you start the process.
Nowadays, many manufacturers work off of dealer or dealer/customer preorders. By getting the orders before you start spending money on tooling, you have a better chance of knowing how likely it is that you'll at least break even. In the long run, breaking even isn't really what you're looking for, though. Because that doesn't generate any money to put toward the next project.
The best way to get a model manufacturered is to find the orders. Historical societies are a great option. Many of them support modelers, and if they help generate sales for the model, it's a win for everyone. The modelers get the cars they want, the historical society generates income, and the manufacturer has a viable project.
Another option would be a Kickstarter. The money is collected up front, and if you think you have a winning model with the orders for it, there are manufacturers that would be happy to handle the production for you. I'd recommend working out the arrangements before launching the Kickstarter, so you know you have a viable path to production. But I think that's an approach that will work well for models that would otherwise be considered too niche.
Randy
--
Randy Hammill
True Line Trains | http://truelinetrains.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 | http://blog.newbritainstation.com
The problem is not what you want or "need" it is, for 99% of the passenger modelers/historians the fact that they don't know what they are looking at or for. This is not at all meant to be derogative, it is simply fact. A freight modeler knows a Viking from a Murphy roof. You start talking about roofs, trucks, end and such to those interested in passenger topics and their eyes start rolling. Be interested enough to speak intelligently about the subject such that manufacturers (and those that influence same) will listen. Go to RPM meets and prior to the meets ask for topics related to your interest. OTW, we will continue to see passenger trains and equipment relegated to rolling scenery with no true hope of influencing manufacturers. There are knowledgeable presenters who need input - and interested audiences. Most passenger topics get (the same) 10 people (or less!). Send in topics. Attend clinics! Find out WHY certain cars haven't been made or certain regions seem to be underrepresented. Find out WHY the cars some want are NOT what you think they are (most IC "tail cars" (sic) were HW rebuilds - not lightweights). Find out the difference between streamstyled, streamlined, modernized, betterments, lightweights, etc. Find out why the old Riv HW don't "match" current offerings (and why NERS parts don't always work) Don't be turned off by corrections or explanations - or don't complain about the lack of "your" interest or needs. For instance - the number 1 car needs for the 1912 to 1969 era is a Common Standard 60' baggage/mail storage car - SC&F has come out with some resin kits. But these cars were everywhere on most roads. There are photos of SP cars in Boston, New York, Baltimore, Washington, Richmond, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Atlanta, etc. - literally every medium to large scale passenger terminal was visited by one. A NYC 60' baggage is a similar need. More variety in HW diners. Mail cars, HW Composite Cars (these are not necessarily wood/steel cars, but they are cars with multiple Pullman crewed services - baggage-bar-barbershop-lounge for example - cars found on many prime trains) - the list is quite long, but you have to know what you are looking for and why some, otherwise similar cars - don't work. You know the difference between a NKP PA and a AT&SF PA, or a PA and a FA-2, or an E7 and E9 - you should know the difference between passenger cars that are equally similar at first glance.
Run Eight
Cool site, however I could not find a "product list", ordering button, or any photo gallery of completed models.
Also the models appear to look somewhat smaller than walthers cars
I know there are ACL, FEC, GM&O, L&N, SAL, SOU modelers out there who are longing for a manufacturer to release a streamliner with passenger cars from one of those roads to run on thier layout.
Someday it will happen.
A suggest.
Take a look at OK Engines & Streamliners Web-Site (A.K.A. Herkimer).
Reasonably priced kits and they DO CUSTOM CAR SIDES.
Proudly Made in the United States of America!
When I first discovered the site, some of the trains had wierd names, one is called "Dirigo", another is "Cranberry", "Tippecanoe", and one SPS train was called "Streamliner".
I later looked up all four trains and it made sense after that.
I agree, it's a fun site, though not one to be take too seriously.
Ed
I shouldn't have added the Soo Line "Laker" to my list. 7j43k is right, It's not a streamliner, but a heavyweight train with just one PRR car on the tail. And with those Geeps on the head-end, it looks like 2 freight locomotives pulling 11 plain express cars with that only Pullman sleeper trailing.
Mabye I should have selected the DRGW "Royal Gorge" as number 12 on that list
The website I used for reference may just be GIF Images, but you have to admit it shows off colorful trains, passenger cars, and locomotives in a creative and imaginitive way.
The SOO certainly had a train called the Winnipeger.
But it wasn't a streamliner.
The SOO only had two streamlined cars: #10 and #11. They were baggage cars. They got them in 1963 and retired them in 1967.
You can't make much of a streamlined train out of baggage cars. Even if you run both of them together.
Soo Line Jim
The Soo Line had an overnight passenger train called the "Winnipeger". It ran from 1928-1967.
Type in Soo Line "Winnipeger" on Google if you don't believe me.
7j43k ATSFGuy Soo Line Jim Here is where I got the infromation from, The Roundhouse on trainweb, look in classic streamliners 1960's. Type in the Roundhouse train web on Google. The graphic that I find: http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/trains28.htm of the Soo Line LAKER on that site is almost exclusively heavyweight, with the exception of what appears to be a Pennsy lightweight on the end. Not what I call streamlined. Ed
ATSFGuy Soo Line Jim Here is where I got the infromation from, The Roundhouse on trainweb, look in classic streamliners 1960's. Type in the Roundhouse train web on Google.
Here is where I got the infromation from,
The Roundhouse on trainweb, look in classic streamliners 1960's.
Type in the Roundhouse train web on Google.
The graphic that I find:
http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/trains28.htm
of the Soo Line LAKER on that site is almost exclusively heavyweight, with the exception of what appears to be a Pennsy lightweight on the end. Not what I call streamlined.
The SOO never owned any streamlined passenger cars. As Ed has mentioned, those Gif images are all six axle heavy weights with the exception of the last car. A Pennsilvania car on the end of the Laker does not seem plausable. A CP car would have been more believable.
Take it with a grain of salt as those are GIF images and not actual photographs.
Jim
ACY
Sorry about the PRR trains, I didn't know the Manhattan Limited had a low appeal or some of it's coaches and diner cars would require new molds to make up a complete protypical train.
Santa Fe is my Road, but I research other railroads and thier streamliners as well.
That Roundhouse Site is great for reference if you want to see what different streamliners looked like during that particular decade.
On another forum, I saw a thread titled "Where to find HO Scale Southern Passenger Cars".
Is the "Crescent Limited" a popular streamliner?
ATSF Guy:
Of course we all have our own favorites, and I do respect your preferences. However, I question your choice of the Manhattan Limited as a PRR representative (#12 on your list). For one thing, the eastbound consist was different from the westbound, so which one do we choose? Yes, several cars were the same, but 3 modernized 12-1 sleepers were operated eastbound only. Similarly, mail storage cars were operated in both directions, but 3 BM70 baggage mail cars and one M70 mail car were operated eastbound only. I'd like to see those head end cars and modernized sleepers on the market, but maybe the Manhattan Limited isn't the best vehicle.
In addition, the train handled P70GSR, P70KR, and P85BR coaches, a diner, and a "Colonial" 3BR-1DR-Buffet car in both directions. These would also require new tooling. B60 baggage cars, X29 express cars, and 10-5 sleepers are the only Manhattan Limited cars that are or have been available from Walthers. The additional cars would be nice additions to the hobby shop shelves, but I'm not convinced that Walthers or any other supplier would be willing to invest in that much new tooling for a train that wasn't so famous.
In my earlier post, I mistakenly mentioned the General in place of the Liberty Limited. I corrected that with an edit 3/12/16. I suggested this train, plus the Spirit of St. Louis and the Cincinnati Limited, because new tooling would be needed for only a couple cars. This would also make it possible to represent trains on both the PRR's Chicago line and St. Louis line, for those who want to be geographically specific.
Tom
(edited with correction 3/12/16)
I'd like to see Athearn re-issue their Palace cars. It's been 7 years. Myself, I'd like some lettered LS&MS.
And it wouldn't be totally awful to add a coach/parlor. And a full baggage. Maybe even an RPO.
ATSF guy,
I have never seen a SOO streamliner. Where are you getting your information from?
I think you miss the point of my statement, but you answered it indirectly. Of the consist given, most of it has been/is available to the modeler in plastic form. The most notible exception would be the 10-2. Those seem to be only available in brass. I'm surprised no one has made that one, since it was a Pullman catalog car not unique to the Santa Fe. Bachmann claims to have made one but upon inspection it is really a 10-1-2. Then I can't even find the dorm-buffet-lounge in anywhere. I'm wondering if it is called a dorm-buffet-parlor in the Pullman catalog, or has been rebuilt from some other car making it the odd man out "special equipment" car that needs to be produced. So over all we need two cars from completing this train set.
baggage-buffet club - Rivarossi10 sect-2 draw6 comp-3 draw - Branch line Diner - Con-cor, AHM, Walther's Dorm-Buffet Lounge8 sect, 1 draw-2 comp - Con-cor, IHC, Branchline (now Atlas) & walthers.10 sect- 1 draw-2 comp - Bachman, Branchline & Walther's12 sect- 1 draw - Branchline & Walther'sObs-3 comp-2 draw - Branchline
Does anyone know how those passenger car side kits work? someone earlier in the thread mentioned they are easy to apply to the side of existing walthers passenger cars.
Do you remove the roof from the walthers car, take off the old sides, and install the modified sides you want to the walthers car and then put the roof back on?
Or is it the other way around?
doctorwayneInstead of hoping that some manufacturer will produce that one-of-a-kind postal/aquarium/solarium/diner owned only by the XY&Z railroad, why not learn how to create it yourself
Hi Texas Zephyr,
There were two Trains,
First Section
1. 4-8-2 Steam Locomotive
2. Baggage-buffet club
3. 10 sect-2 draw
4. 6 comp-3 draw
5. Diner
6. Dorm-Buffet Lounge
7. 8 sect, 1 draw-2 comp
8. 10 sect-2 draw
9. 10 sect-2 draw
10. 10 sect-2 draw
11. Observation-3 Comp-2 draw
Second Section
2. Baggage-buffet-club
3. 10 sect-1 draw-2 comp
4. 10 sect-2 draw
5. 12 sect-1 draw
6. Diner
7. Dorm-Buffet-Lounge
8. 12 sect- 1 draw
9. 10 sect- 1 draw-2 comp
10. 12 sect- 1 draw
11. Observation-3 comp-2 draw
Note: These are the Heavyweight Versions c1928-1938
ATSFGuy15. Santa Fe "California Limited"
Who wants to see the "1948 Chessie Streamliner" in HO Scale? Those M1 Steam Turbines pulling 13 Streamlined cars, one of which is the "Moonlight Dome".
I have seen HO streamliner sets offered by Coachyard, But I think Walthers should lower the prices on the new product releases and produce streamliners that have been on our waiting list for years.
Here's 15 Streamliners that might sell
1. Norfolk & Western "City of Decatur"
2. Central of Georgia "Nancy Hanks I & II"
3. Erie Lackawanna "Erie Lackawanna Limited" or
"Phoebe Snow"
4. Southern Railway "Crescent Limited"
5. Soo Line "Laker"
6. Louiseville & Nashville "Hummingbird"
7. Rock Island "Californian"
8. Monon "Throughbred"
9. Gulf Mobile & Ohio "Midnight Special"
10. Texas & Pacific "Texas Eagle"
11. Seaboard Air Line "Silver Comet"
12. Pennsylvania Manhattan Limited"
13. Nickel Plate Road "City of Chicago"
14. Delaware & Hudson "Montreal Limited"
15. Santa Fe "California Limited
These streamliners are found in the Roundhouse on trainweb.
1. Type in "the roundhouse train web" on google
2. Where it says www.trainweb.org/mccan/offer.htm, click on the link above
3. Your'e In! Classic Streamliners 1960's is where I got the names.
What we need is for someone to do a specialty run on the NC&StL's "City of Memphis" I have a feeling Walthers can do it fairly easily. At least they made Southern streamline passenger cars.
But if you wanted my opion on the matter, I'm sick to death of constantly seeing SP and UP and other various western railroads on the market. Being a Southern guy it annoys me to death seeing it all the time and barely any effort on the rest of the nation let alone the southeast. And the people that do are super expensive (take a gander at Rapido's Central of Georgia baggage cars and that's all they did smh) or the like. It's gotten so bad that it's making me consider starting my own company selling nothing but railroads from the southeast and some from the midwest and specialty runs on northeastern stuff. But that's just me, I have no idea what I would be doing XD
But yeah the market definately needs more from the dixieland and less from the west coast.