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Results from can motor replacement in Mantua Pacific

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  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Knoxville, TN
  • 2,055 posts
Results from can motor replacement in Mantua Pacific
Posted by farrellaa on Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:38 PM

I wasn't sure if this should be posted on the electircal forum or not but it really isn't about the electrical issues. I have plans to add DCC to the Mantua Pacific and so I installed a Canon EN22 can motor this morning as the first step. I was surprised at how much pulling power it has now, so I placed 2 1/2 pounds (just had a couple of brass and steel slugs) of weight on a flat car and the engine pulled it with no problem at all. I think it would pull twice that amount. I was wondering if that is a normal load in weight/pounds for an engine to pull?

  -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:08 PM

I have twenty Canon EN22 motors in my locomotives and I don’t think you can overload them!  I have added as much as 10 ounces of weight to my articulated steam locomotives that have Canon EN22 motors.
 
I have the EN22D (dual shaft) in six E7s with Cary bodies that weigh 1.4 pounds bringing the total locomotive weight to 2.5 pounds.  The EN22Ds run only slightly warm to the touch.  A matched pair of E7s draw less than 1 amp towing 10 over weight passenger cars up my 3½% grade.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by farrellaa on Sunday, February 7, 2016 3:26 PM

Mel,

Good to hear about your experience with these motors. I will definately use more of them on my other conversion projects. Thanks,

  -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, February 7, 2016 3:34 PM

farrellaa
....I was wondering if that is a normal load in weight/pounds for an engine to pull?

I don't think that's exceptional and suspect that the loco would pull much more.  The NMRA recommends that an HO scale 40' boxcar weigh 4oz., which means that your loaded flatcar is sorta the equivalent of 10 boxcars (I say sorta because your flatcar has only four axles, compared to the 40 of the ten car train).
One of my Bachmann Consolidations, with a bit of added weight, can move a 100oz. train on level track (12 loaded cars and a caboose), but it takes two of them to handle the same train on a grade.
The Mantua Pacific is much heavier than a Bachmann Consolidation, and should be able to haul quite a bit more.

When I first got my Athearn Mikados, and discovered how poorly they pulled, I experimented to see if added weight would yield much of an improvement.  As a test, I formed a "saddle" of sheet lead and draped it over the loco's boiler, then, while holding the tender to prevent the loco from moving, applied power.  I was surprised to see that the drivers slipped readily, indicating that the added weight could easily be handled by the motor.  Unfortunately, the locomotive's boiler didn't have room to accomodate the additional 2 1/2lbs. of lead which comprised the "saddle".

Your new motor should be well-suited to DCC operation.

Wayne

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Posted by xdford on Sunday, February 7, 2016 5:05 PM

farrellaa

I wasn't sure if this should be posted on the electircal forum or not but it really isn't about the electrical issues. I have plans to add DCC to the Mantua Pacific and so I installed a Canon EN22 can motor this morning as the first step. I was surprised at how much pulling power it has now, so I placed 2 1/2 pounds (just had a couple of brass and steel slugs) of weight on a flat car and the engine pulled it with no problem at all. I think it would pull twice that amount. I was wondering if that is a normal load in weight/pounds for an engine to pull?

  -Bob

 

 

Hi Bob... is there any possibility of a photo of your conversion either on the forum or sent to my email please? I have a number of Canon motors and even though I have a can motor Pacific, I have not been that happy with its pulling power!

Cheers from Oz

Trevor

 

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Posted by farrellaa on Monday, February 8, 2016 9:01 AM

xdford
Hi Bob... is there any possibility of a photo of your conversion either on the forum or sent to my email please? I have a number of Canon motors and even though I have a can motor Pacific, I have not been that happy with its pulling power! Cheers from Oz Trevor

Here are some pics of the remotor work on my Mantua Pacific. This is not the final rework as I plan to modify the mounting of the motor to get better alignment with the gearbox shaft and also to replace the tubing with a universal joint coupling (although it does run quite smooth as is). I had to grind/file the inside of the boiler to clear the motor (about 1/32 from each side). This was a quick install to see how it performed; the motor is held with 2-face tape and the boiler shell confines it from moving lateraly. The EN22 is a perfect choice for this engine.

  -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, February 8, 2016 10:19 AM

Nice pictures Bob!
 
FYI, I went to using Amazing Goop to hold the Canon EN22s in place.  Goop can be a pain in the butt to use but the end result has been worth the effort for me.  The Goop absorbs motor and gear noise, it also has some flexibility to absorb motor torque.  My only problem other than the gooey mess is holding the motor in alignment until the Goop sets.
 
This is a dual motored Rivarossi Cab Forward, my thing is restoring clunkers and this one had a broken frame.  I made a frame from K&S brass and installed the pair of Canon EN22 motors.  They are glued to the frame with a thin layer of Goop.  I added 10 ounces of #8 birdshot to the inside of the shell and this locomotive will pull the paint off the walls.
  
  
 
The dual motors are paralleled and run off a single DCC sound decoder in the tender.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by G Paine on Monday, February 8, 2016 12:33 PM

RR_Mel
I have twenty Canon EN22 motors in my locomotives and I don’t think you can overload them!

Mel, where do you find these Cannon motors?

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 8, 2016 3:54 PM

 I see them all over eBay, for $19.95.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by xdford on Monday, February 8, 2016 4:06 PM

Thank you Bob and Mel... great photos

G Paine... I got mine from Ebay some time ago! I did check for current ones and they seem to be readily available,

Mine are actually DN22's but share the same dimensions as the EN22. I have two powering Athearn  RDC's which I used Athearn SW trucks which I refiled closer to the shape of the RDC truck. They run very well. I know they are not true length but as my layout has some sharp curves they are fine...

 Regards

Trevor

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, February 8, 2016 4:21 PM

G Paine

 

 
RR_Mel
I have twenty Canon EN22 motors in my locomotives and I don’t think you can overload them!

 

Mel, where do you find these Cannon motors?

 

Several years ago I accidently ran into them at BGMicro.com for $1.19 each and bought 20 of them.  After they arrived and realized what they were I went back to their site to buy 20 more but they were sold out. Since then I have bought some from Motorman.com and picked up 6 of the EN22D dual shafts off eBay for $7 each.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Knoxville, TN
  • 2,055 posts
Posted by farrellaa on Monday, February 8, 2016 5:06 PM

RR_Mel
Several years ago I accidently ran into them at BGMicro.com for $1.19 each and bought 20 of them. After they arrived and realized what they were I went back to their site to buy 20 more but they were sold out. Since then I have bought some from Motorman.com and picked up 6 of the EN22D dual shafts off eBay for $7 each. Mel

Mel,

No wonder you have so many. I had tried a DN22 but it was too slow so I replaced it with the EN22 that I got on Ebay for $14.95; best price I could find and that was for a 'one of a kind' offer. Now that I know how good they are I will look for them on and off. The only thing I don't like about using Goop or other adhesives is that you can't remove the motor without destroying the mounting. I may try some caulk when I get the final setup ready.

I also like to rescue old Rivarossi articulateds, like the Cab Forward I just sold. I have rebuilt about 4 of them so far but have an InterMountain DCC/Sound one for my layout.

Trevor,

Glad the photos were good enough to see what I did. BTW, I just was playing around with the coupling that came out of the original Mantua motor/drive and it may actually work with the new motor. The coupling is a rubber tube with metal colars on each end that have splined insides that grip the tube when the shaft is installed. I will try it and see if it is any better than the tubing I have now.

  -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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