Walthers has dropped the ball!
Please advise your model railroading friends, and most importantly the retail dealers where you shop that they CAN GET the 2000 products currently available in the Con-Cor Trains product line directly from Con-Cor for you.
For model railroaders that do not have a local retailer convenient to them, you are most welcome to order directly from the Con-Cor Trains website, or using our Consumer toll free number 1-888-255-7826 which is available Monday-Friday 8am to 3:45pm Mountain Time Zone.
Now we want to point out that Walthers is a good company, and has always supported the hobby, remember their famous promotion that said “Your Dealer can get it from Walthers”?
But now it appears that they have changed their policy so that is no longer true, so while you can get some of the Con-Cor line from Walthers you cannot get it all anymore. Here is the “back story” on this situation…
Turmoil in the Walthers purchasing dept. has resulted in many customers being advised that delivery on a large portion of our product line is “Unknown”. This is in fact not true. There are dozens and dozens of our products (if not hundreds) which Walthers does not have on their shelves and lists the re-stock date at Walthers as “Unknown”, while we sit with shelves full of the same items.
The Truth is they are just not ordering new items on a timely basis and once sold out on the handful of products that they do order, they are not placing orders to re-stock the sold-out items. They just tell the customers that delivery on our product is “Unknown”.
In many cases, while we have supplied photos of the new products for their website, they don’t use them. They show blank spaces so that the customer is left to wonder what the items look like. They do not even use some of the photos on their website that we gave them and they used in the 2016 catalogs.
We paid over $5000 to advertise our new items delivered in 2015, and some new items for 2016 in the Walthers 2016 catalogs. Yet, we have many of these items sitting on our shelves and Walthers has them marked as delivery “Unknown” in the Walthers wholesale database. Possibly, we have lost tens of thousands of dollars in sales on product we advertised in the Walthers catalogs and that we can ship directly off of our shelves. But they only tell people delivery is “Unknown”.
Only about 20% of the people who find out that delivery is “Unknown” on an item may want to allow Walthers to “Back-Order” that item. So our sale is lost forever on the space that we PAID for in the Walthers catalog. Since Walthers does not allow us to list our own website in their catalog, the customers reach a dead end when they see the product labelled delivery as “Unknown”.
We have sent Walthers emails about the above issues and they have never replied to our emails.
We suspect that there are other model railroad manufacturers in the same boat. You are most welcome to email us with your comments.
ConCor@con-cor.com
Jim
Jim:
That is very disturbing news.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
First, ConCor is great company who has always (in recent history) sold direct to customers and direct to dealers - why go thru Walthers. ConCor was once a distributor themselves - they saw the industry changing and got out of that part of the market.
Second, this situation at Walthers is nothing new. Back before Athearn was purchased by Horizon, Athearn products were sold thru Walthers and dozens of other regional hobby distributors. Walther got into the plastic freight car kit business directly when they purchased the Trains Miniature line. From that point on, Athearn products got a "second fiddle" level of promotion in the Walthers Catalog (long before the web).
Athearn was very smart to go with single point direct distribution when Horizon took over.
Walthers started out as a manufacturer, moved into distribution, then in the 80's shifted back to manufacturing by aquiring lots of small model train manufacturers, and now has become a major importer with most products being produced overseas.
It has long been my view that they stay in the distribution business only out of a sense of obligation to the ever shrinking pool of small shops, and because it gives them a better mail order/web selection of products.
Their real interest today is selling the imports that have their name on the box - not in selling other brands as a wholesaler or retailer.
The pricing pressures now in place in this industry do not really support the idea of the manufacturer/distributor/retailer/consumer chain - the two in the middle are bing squeezed out.
I suspect Walthers wants out of the wholesale business, but does not have an "exit strategy". So by simply not reordering stuff like ConCor passenger cars, they hope to do two things - steer customers to their passenger cars, and discourage small dealers from using them as a wholesaler - which would give them an excuse to exit that part of the market.
Another example - Bachmann will sell direct to any dealer who orders a reasonable volume of product at a wholesale discount level. But Walthers still sells Bachmann as a "distributor". A small dealer ordering Bachmann from Wathers pays a price similar to the prices places like Trainworld are selling Bachmann to the public - why would any dealer buy Bachmann from Walthers.......
The "middleman" is a dieing business in this hobby - Walthers is more interested in paying China for their own product rather than tieing up money to have Concor products on their shelves competing with their own in house products.
The new business model is manufacturer sells direct to consumer or dealer - wholesale distributor is a DOA idea.
Walthers simply has a public relations problem in finding a way out of the distribution business.
Sheldon
hon30critter Jim: That is very disturbing news. Dave
Why is it disturbing?
Hi Sheldon:
Two reasons I think the news is disturbing:
First, I thought the situation might be an indication that Walthers is in trouble.
Second, I dislike the fact that Walthers is misleading their customers by listing the re-stock dates as 'Unknown'. If they have made a decision to not stock an item they should say so up front. To not do so is, IMHO, unethical.
I think there are likely a lot of modellers who rely on Walthers as their source. I know I did for the first few years, partly out of ignorance and partly out of a desire to support a brick and mortor hobby store. At the time, my LHS was charging quite a bit more to ship an item 60 kms than Walthers was charging to ship from the US to Canada.
Ultimately, I guess it all boils down to business decisions. Whether those decisions are right or wrong is something we could debate all day.
People are reporting this walthers/concor hoo ha all over the place. I'm not bothered by this tempest in a tea pot. I haven't bought any concor in ten years nor ordered through walthers ever. I can't get excited about this "news" blip on the radar.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
hon30critter Hi Sheldon: Two reasons I think the news is disturbing: First, I thought the situation might be an indication that Walthers is in trouble. Second, I dislike the fact that Walthers is misleading their customers by listing the re-stock dates as 'Unknown'. If they have made a decision to not stock an item they should say so up front. To not do so is, IMHO, unethical. I think there are likely a lot of modellers who rely on Walthers as their source. I know I did for the first few years, partly out of ignorance and partly out of a desire to support a brick and mortor hobby store. At the time, my LHS was charging quite a bit more to ship an item 60 kms than Walthers was charging to ship from the US to Canada. Ultimately, I guess it all boils down to business decisions. Whether those decisions are right or wrong is something we could debate all day. Dave
Dave, OK, I understand and agree, to a point.
I worked in the hobby/model train business from 1970 to 1983, and still know a number of people in the business. Nothing about this surprises me nor is it "new".
ConCor has just finally had enough, just like Athearn did 12-13 years ago - good for them - they don't need Wathers anymore.
Walthers is likely not "in trouble", but they are likely considering that more product in boxes that say "Walthers" is a more important place to put their cash than in boxes that say "ConCor".
And there are two sides to this, which I commented on somewhat. ConCor has always been a company similar to Walthers, who both manufactured products, and until a few years ago was also a wholesaler - Competition for Walthers in some respects.
The owner of ConCor nearly retired a few years ago, then had a change of heart - but he did restructure his business model - got rid of the wholesaling of other brands, started selling direct to the public, and expanded his selling direct to retailers rather than depending on Walthers or other distributors to sell his products to smaller dealers.
Not being in Canada, I have no standing on the issue of shipping costs from various suppliers - respectfully, I would just drive 60 kms (37 miles), I drive that far to train stores on a regular basis. But I will say this, at Walthers MSRP prices, they should have cheap shipping, considering the large margin they are working on when they sell to retail customers.......
I worked in this business in a time when most people still paid retail - that horse has left the barn - but we could see the current business model coming, even way back then.....
Soon, I suspect the business model in this hobby will be that product will all go directly from manufacturers to large discount retailers, be they brick and mortar, internet or both. OR, it will go directly from manufacturers to customers - like Exact Rail is doing - alone with a fair number of others.
But in fact, if you don't own the factory your product is made in, are you really a "manufactuer", or just a "reseller", be it wholesale or retail?
Lots of products say "SEARS", but they have never "made" anything in 130 years......someone has always made it for them....
I can't say I like the direction the hobby business has taken, but I doubt my opinion will have much effect on its future......
I do however trust my business experiance in predicting and understanding what is going on here......
Sheldon:
One thing I should clarify is that my LHS (Credit Valley Railway in Mississauga, Ontario) rarely discounts their product, and, despite having a newer larger store, their selection of detail bits isn't as full as it could be. In the past I have driven there many times only to find that I couldn't get what I wanted. Given their shipping costs it was cheaper to order from Walthers. I could have ordered the needed items by phone and then picked them up, but because there is a toll road enroute, Walthers was still a better offer.
That of course was when the Cdn $ was at par, and before Walthers jacked up their shipping costs.
Since then, thanks to some fellow forum members, I have found a couple of Canadian hobby shops who can get what I want and whose shipping is quite reasonable (i.e. not by Canada Post ).
Walthers could still put in place distribution deals where they act as the middle man, and sell the product, but the product remains on ConCors shelves, and is shipped from ConCor. It wouldn't be hard to do, from a technological perspective, but I think it's beyond what Walthers, Athearn, ConCor, etc. would be comfortable doing, technology wise.
I agree with Sheldon.
As an idiot newbie 12 years ago, I bought all of my supplies at retail from Walthers because I didn't know any better. Now, I only consult their web site to see what is available from the various manufacturers. I see the Expected date as Unknown all the time. Yet, when I go to the manufacturer's web site, it is inevitably available.
Rich
Alton Junction
The world is changing, it is always changing and always has. The old hobby store idea was starting to really go away 30 years ago and has sped up. What we are finding is that in the computer age, Moore's law applies to most things, not just circuit boards, he would be amazed but when you consider that the internet gives people access to others work in short order, this trend will continue.
riogrande5761 I haven't bought any concor in ten years nor ordered through walthers ever.
I haven't bought any concor in ten years nor ordered through walthers ever.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
TheWizard Walthers could still put in place distribution deals where they act as the middle man, and sell the product, but the product remains on ConCors shelves, and is shipped from ConCor. It wouldn't be hard to do, from a technological perspective, but I think it's beyond what Walthers, Athearn, ConCor, etc. would be comfortable doing, technology wise.
There is no incentive for either side in that business model - this market is too small for that to have any benefit.
The drop ship model works great for large, heavy, and expensive items that cost too much to ship twice, need costly large warehouse space to store, and a lot of up front flooring costs to stock at an intermediate dealer. Most model railroad stuff does not hit any of this criteria (unless we are talking an inch and a half scale live steam Big Boy...).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Bill is gone. Bruce is gone. Sadly, it is a different company today. But then, what company isn't?
Charlie
That famous-“Your Dealer can get it from Walthers”- was usually followed by LHS owners I knew over the years adding "I hope."
I haven't order direct from Walthers in at least 10 or so years and I don't plan to since I found other ways of getting the detail parts I once ordered through them.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have always liked Con-Cor. Purchased 6 engines, a nice 72 foot set of passenger cars and some freight cars over the years.
Not too long ago I inquired about a freight car which was sold out. They told me that a few were being held for returns and I could get one if any were left. I got a phone call a month later and they asked if I was still interested. Great customer service.
The internet, ebay and Amazon have changed the retail market, including our hobby.
Soo Line fanThe internet, ebay and Amazon have changed the retail market, including our hobby.
Absolutely.. For the better IMHO.
BRAKIE Soo Line fan The internet, ebay and Amazon have changed the retail market, including our hobby. Absolutely.. For the better IMHO.
Soo Line fan The internet, ebay and Amazon have changed the retail market, including our hobby.
At least for those that were able to adapt to the changing times. My most common examples are MB Klein and Caboose Hobbies.
Remember back in the early heyday of the Internet there were online-onle shops popping up all over the place, even ones taking out full page ads in MR every month. They didn't last. There's still a few you hit now and then that I have no idea how they remain in business, as they have essentially no stock and just order from Walthers when you order from them. Perhaps they cater to the people who remember that it used to take 6-8 weeks to get something via mail order and still don't care that it takes that long. Me, i finally ponied up for Amazon Prime, mainly for ordering Christmas gifts, but when my cable modem died a couple of weeks ago, late on a Saturday, I used it to have a new one shipped in for Sunday. For half the price the local Best Buy wanted for the same modem.
richhotrain I agree with Sheldon. As an idiot newbie 12 years ago, I bought all of my supplies at retail from Walthers because I didn't know any better. Now, I only consult their web site to see what is available from the various manufacturers. I see the Expected date as Unknown all the time. Yet, when I go to the manufacturer's web site, it is inevitably available. Rich
I was an idiot newbie as well, getting caught up in the "pre-order at full retail or you won't get one", sucker speel. I did learned fast that at least everything I seemed to be interested in was always available and cheaper after the fact.
I do almost all my RR shopping online now and I give the local guys every oppourtunity to price match on what I want. Sometimes they can't, but usually they match or do better. All it takes is a quick E-Mail with a link to the cheaper and/or sale price somewhere else on the planet and I can swing by and pick it up next time I am out. Often I'll just make an offer on something and they'll bite. I don't nickle and dime them on anything under a $100.00 or so and I think that buys me a lot of credibility on negotiations on the more pricey items.
I am lucky that I have five good sized suppliers close to home. PWRS, Euro Rail Hobbies, Britannia Hobbies are very close, while Central Hobbies and On track Hobbies are within striking distance if needed. A lot of products can be used for both European and North American modeling, so Euro-Rail and Brittania are very convenient, depending on what I need.
Walthers runs a "lazy website" when it comes to keeping it up to date.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
The other perspective here is that Con-Cor wants Walthers to warehouse Con-Cor's inventory...and to pay Con-Cor to do so.
Paul A. Cutler III
Walthers has been doing this for years, even many of their own products have an unknown status, my feeling is this is just away for Con- Cor to try and gain more direct business, I buy from both, the majority of Con-Cor products with an unknown status do arrive at some point. Walthers is just being honest to the consumer, they wait until they have a sufficient amount product needed before placing an order with a firm.
James Sanchez
Paul3 The other perspective here is that Con-Cor wants Walthers to warehouse Con-Cor's inventory...and to pay Con-Cor to do so. Paul A. Cutler III
Come on Paul, Walthers can't sell something to a retail customer or to a dealer if they don't have it. And telling customers that delivery is "unknown" does not instill confidence that would prompt people to place orders.
That is a distributors job to stock inventory - personally I think ConCor would do well to simply pull their line from Walthers - Walthers is becoming irrelevant as a distributor - as distributors are going the way of the dodo.
Direct distribution is the way of the future, there is no room in the pricing structure for all these middlemen any more.
And with modern shipping and communication, there is no need for regional distribution any more.
jsanchez Walthers has been doing this for years, even many of their own products have an unknown status, my feeling is this is just away for Con- Cor to try and gain more direct business, I buy from both, the majority of Con-Cor products with an unknown status do arrive at some point. Walthers is just being honest to the consumer, they wait until they have a sufficient amount product needed before placing an order with a firm.
Again, if Walthers is going to wait until they have a long list of backorders before they place an order with ConCor, then why does the customer or ConCor need Walthers? The prices are the same, ConCor will ship it tomorrow, not 6 weeks from now.........
Sheldon,Ok, how about this: Perhaps Con-Cor doesn't sell well enough for Walthers to keep constantly in stock?Paul A. Cutler III
That is probably closer to the truth, Con-Cor is not that large a player anymore. Walthers is doing just fine.
I am not surprised about this. If you think about it, for HO scale, Walthers now offers their own lines of locomotives (3 lines), freight cars, passenger cars, building kits and detailing items (and the offering seems to be expanding faster than ever). Why would they actively support their competition?
Paul3 Sheldon,Ok, how about this: Perhaps Con-Cor doesn't sell well enough for Walthers to keep constantly in stock?Paul A. Cutler III
OK, maybe so. Then Walthers should drop ConCor rather than "lie" to the public about its availably and their interest in selling it.
Obvoiusly ConCor sells well enough of ConCor to keep making what they make. I have somewhere around 40-50 of their passenger cars......but only a small sampling of other ConCor items.
DRfan I am not surprised about this. If you think about it, for HO scale, Walthers now offers their own lines of locomotives (3 lines), freight cars, passenger cars, building kits and detailing items (and the offering seems to be expanding faster than ever). Why would they actively support their competition?
Why? Because they "claim" to be distributors - but I belive I covered this in my earlier posts.
jsanchez That is probably closer to the truth, Con-Cor is not that large a player anymore. Walthers is doing just fine.
Based on my experiance when I ran a train department in a hobby shop, they are a bigger player now than 20 or 30 years ago. Are they Walthers or Athearn? No.
But Again, if Walthers is not interested in selling their product, they should just drop the line.