My layout was wired like a room. It had it's own exclusive circuit breaker in the house box. From there it went to a regular light switch (used as a master switch) on the wall. The layout had its own outlets mounted on the benchwork frames. Nothing on the layout was connected to a regular house outlet. Each power supply had its own on/off switch on the control panels. The power supply that lit up the buildings on the layout did not. At the end of the session everything would be shut off individually. The last thing to do was shut off the master swich. If the building lights were off, the layout was completely shut down and safe to leave the room.
Hi all
The simple thing to do is be sensible about tidyness and quality of construction.
Don't leave problems that exist find the cause and fix them if it requiers a profesional don't mess about get one.
Done right a model railway and its surounding is reasonably safe.
Oh and when finished in the train room its not rocket science switch every thing off take a minute or two to check every thing is off and last thing off as you leave is the room lights
When things do go wrong it happens very fast so bear that in mind and have a clear safe exit way at all times
Well I notice fire extinguishers have been mentioned.
My thought here is put them by the exit that way you are heading in the right direction.
Then when you get to the extiguisher the fight or flight decision can be made.
and if its flight you just keep going.
In the unlikely event of a train room fire I don't think I would worry to much about fighting the fire.
The train room and layout etc can be re built.
Since I am not a god rebuilding me or other people could be a lot more problomatic
So on balance I think forget the extinguishers and get every one out is the better better attack plan hence the need to keep a clear safe exit way.
regards John
yougottawanta Dante wrote "A B-label door is rated for 1-1/2 hours and is not likely required for a garage door to a residence. Codes vary, but the requirement is more likely for a C-label door (3/4 hr rating) or even simply a solid core wood door (unrated)." Dante Dante Not sure where you get your source but the codes we are using ABSOLUTELY require at least a B label door between the residence and garage. Which in our neck of the woods a B label has a 30 minute burn rate. What is your source ? YGW
Dante wrote "A B-label door is rated for 1-1/2 hours and is not likely required for a garage door to a residence. Codes vary, but the requirement is more likely for a C-label door (3/4 hr rating) or even simply a solid core wood door (unrated)."
Dante
Not sure where you get your source but the codes we are using ABSOLUTELY require at least a B label door between the residence and garage. Which in our neck of the woods a B label has a 30 minute burn rate. What is your source ?
YGW
My source is over 50 years of education and experience as an architect with the US Navy and in private practice in NY state. Codes do vary with location; however, the "labeling system" in the U.S. has always been, to my knowledge, that of the Underwriters Laboratories. B label signifies a 1-1/2 hour rating. Before I wrote my reply I checked online to see if anything had changed since I retired and found no change. I would be interested to know what door manufacturer offers a B label 30 minute door.
Edit P.S. Check this link: http://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/doors-windows/doorlabel.html
Regardless of whatever codes you think are in place, the best solution is to get the local building inspector to come in and tell you what they will approve before spending any money. If your construction is approved that takes away your liability if something goes wrong and, hopefully, your insurance company can't argue.
The inspection fees are peanuts compared to what you have at stake.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Not sure what codes are in effect in other parts of the country, but here in Maryland we use the IRC (International Residential Code).
R302.5.1 - Dwelling-garage opening and penetration.......solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8" thick, solid or honeycomb-core steel doors not less than 1-3/8" thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors, equiped with a self closing device.
No metion is made of any other rating system or certification.
Personally, as a residential designer by trade, I dislike attached garages, both architecturally and from a safety standpoint. Fire walls or not, you are welcome to sleep in a building with a car, I would rather not.....
As for this general issue of safety, my train room, in the second floor of my detached garage, has a hard wired smoke detector wired to a central station alarm, a pull station, fire extinguisher and no high current DCC system to allow short circuits of that power level.
Trains are run on DC, by 10 seperate 4 amp regulated power supplies, each with their own fuses. Additional control system and accessory pwer supplies are similar in size and protection.
And by design, the Aristo Craft wireless radio throttles I use shut down propulsion power when shorted out......
Sheldon
I was doing some scenery today near my DCC cabinet. Wife suggested we go to lunch. I laid down my tools and we left. Returned about two hours later and I heard some clicking noise from the back of the layout. I discovered that I somehow turned on the power to the DCC while I had a metal rule sitting on the track. My PSX was working correctly, the clicking was it trying to reset. Here I just posted about safety. and two days later, I had an inadvertant event. I am going to rig a light near the exit that will light anytime power is supplied to the DCC rack. I always check that power is off after using DCC, but since I was only doing scenery, not using DCC, I did not bother. Also, I am relocating the surge protector where it will be harder to accidently energize.
Most of what we do will not cause fires, some things are possible but not likely. Electrical is the thing that is blamed for a lot of house fires but it is one of the hardest to start (look up fire forensics, not firemen). That being said, once a fire is started, depending on the fuel available, it can spread fast, very fast. Some of the biggest fire problems of our hobby are the solvents and paints we use, another is the good old souldering iron. One that people forget about is magnyfing glasses, been a few of those. One electrical problem that can be a problem are electrical cords. Besides geting damaged, the plastic can become brittle over time and if the break is at the wrong spot, you have a fire potental. Back to the electrical, I have seen bad house wiring before, very bad with zip cords powering this and that, that is not consided in any coments of house wiring (also seen bypassed fuzes ect.).
A minor technical correction:
A B-label door is rated for 1-1/2 hours and is not likely required for a garage door to a residence. Codes vary, but the requirement is more likely for a C-label door (3/4 hr rating) or even simply a solid core wood door (unrated).
Lots of good comments, stay safe everyone.
My layout is in a basement room that was partitioned off and drywalled specifically for the railroad and a workshop. If I were to do it again, I'd have a master switch installed for the railroad and workshop which also lit a light in the original finished basement rec room area so that if the railroad and workshop had power I'd know it by just looking down the stairs to the lower level. But... I now have to rely on memory or trudging downstairs to double check.
George V.
While we cannot prevent all accidents and issues, we can be smart and through this prevent some issues.
Have a master on/off switch for the layout. Always kill it before leaving.
Have a fire extinguisher in the house, preferably more than one, at least one on each floor, and at a bare minimum one in the kitchen, for grease fires, and one on the main floor, of ABC type. Know how the use them. Know when to use them to attempt to extinguish a fire, and when to just get out and get help. Also know when they were purchased, that they are up to date, charged, and in working condition.
Make sure your house wiring is up to code, and Therefore is safe.
Have a working smoke detector on every floor, one in kitchen and near each bedroom.
Have a escape route, if needed, at all times. This includes when working on/around layout, in layout room, and while operating layout.
Make sure your layout wiring passes the short circuit test, that the breaker works, and that all sections will detect the short and shut down. Pass, on every track, every time, the "quarter test".
Make sure your layout wiring is adequately done, is easy to understand, and is color coded. Do not skimp on safety by using inferior wire, of too small of size, just to save money.
If you used foam, know that, if it catches on fire, the smoke is thick, extremely toxic, and that it goes up in flame very quickly. Know that this smoke also is capable of spreading the fire in itself, that this smoke and heat can cause the fire to jump location quickly. Never attempt to extinguish a fire where and when you could become trapped by it. If your layout is made of foam, and this foam is on fire, get out, get everyone to safety, and call for emergency assistance. DO NOT RE-ENTER THE BUILDING!
Make sure, as an backup, that you have insurance. Sometimes, even though you do everything possible, that everything is made safely, things do still happen. Never think it can't happen to me, because, it just might. Always have a plan, always have an escape.
And, always remeber, to be safe, as, "Safety starts with you".
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Some other safety steps one may want to consider:
Smoke detectors should be hardwired with a battery back up, the battery should be changed once a year
Fire Ext. - should be checked at least once year. You should do some research on the type. One that shoots liquid may not be ideal for an electric fire
If you conduct OP sessions a wall displayed map of your house with exit path shown would be wise
Light system with battery back up for the exit route would be helpful
For your family you should have a plan in place should there be a fire a place where you set aside a location to meet to insure everyone is accounted for and is out.
As the ex fire fighter stated above - get everyone out FIRST and then call 911 for help.
Many peopel do not know this BUT houses are not made to fire proof -- they are made to last in increments of minutes to allow for peopel to EXIT the house before it structurally fails.
For example :
Between the house and the garage is a door that is usually installed and is called "B" Label door. These are usually"30" minute doors. They will fail in thirty minutes after which fire will come through that opening.
Floor joist commonly used these days are manufactured truss or I joist. Once fire hits these they will fail within 15 to 20 minutes. Many fire fire fighters around the country will not enter a house after it has been on fire for 30 minutes because of the possibility of structural failure of the floors .
Hope this is helpful
As a technician while I was in the Air Force, we learned about redundancy, and double redundancy. My layout has its own sub-panel attached to the main service panel. There are breakers for room lighting, power to the extra outlets that had to be installed and to the layout itself. Near the layout control panel, there is also a switch that kills the power to the layout.
If you don't know how to do electrical work, HIRE someone that does. In a former life, I was a licensed electrician. Get the needed permits to do your work. After the subpanel, lighting and the main power to the layout was run, a quick call to the city/county code inspector can be made to have him inspect your work. This can save you a major headache should you have a fire that can be traced to undocumented, uninspected wiring.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Safety? I don't need any extra safety..You see there's two wires going to my switching layout for track power,there's no blocks and all switches is manual.. A master on/off switch kills the power to my Tech 6.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
LIONS run DC and not DCC. But him has unique system, DC power on at all times, resistors aceoss gaps to slow the trains, and of course, 48 wheel power pickup.
LION runs 10 maybe 12 trains at once, power supply puts out 10 amps. [note to LION: instal the fuses already!] Him used 1/2 watt resistors to slow trains. Engineering types would have specified bigger resistors, but operations department decided that the smaller resistors would be good enough since no train would be in the circuit long enough to warm the resistors.
Well, to make a short story somewhat longer, A train derailed and a resistor over heated, I could smell it, but had no clue where on the layout the disaster occured. LION push RED button to cut all track power. Him found the derailed train because before the resistor died, it started a small fire. No more tha a lit match which the LION quickly blew out, though not before the care in question received significant damage. The car has been pt back in service, but is now painted yellow and is part of the MOW fleet.
So why did the circuit breaker in the power supply not shut things down? Because the device (resistor) could not draw enough ampeers (10 amps) to trip the breaker. LION will install smaller fuses, but still they gotta be big enough to run all 10 trains at once. Hmmm.... Him will watch the ammeter to see what the draw is, and then install fuse one size bigger, but him is also going to put a bank of adtomobile amps across the circuit. Normal ops draws not enough current to light the lamps... they will simply act as apiece of wire. But in a dead short they will light up since they are the only thing now drawing on the ampeers.
ROARING
PS... The sensor/signal circuit is never shut off. The signals are always lit as is the model board... were this not so the automation system would forget where the trains were and could release a train that should have been held to run into the rear of its leader.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
It's a quick test, using a quarter, touching both rails, and the short circuit system on your track power supply should send out a "beeb", then shut down. First, turn on the power to your track. This test shows the system is working correctly. The OP stated that the RR in question did NOT pass this test, meaning that his system didn't shut down, which could cause a fire in the power supply, and/or layout.
You only do this for a second, at various places (power districts and /or blocks) Once you remove the quarter, the system should turn back on.
I use Digitrax, and do this every once in awhile, especially if I suspect a problem.
Mike.
My You Tube
There are many areas where a fire can start on a layout. I'm guilty of forgoting to turn off a soldering iron or a power pack? Thankfully, I rest both on wood to prevent them from touching something more flammable.
I tell my daughter whenever we cook/bake to always ask yourself whether you have the right ingredients and enough time. These questions are applicable to trains b/c rushing through, esp. for anything electrical, is a recipe (pun intended) for frustration and poor safety standards. Similar to a kitchen, keeping safe in train room also involves having enough room to work. For those w/o glasses wearing protective eye gear is critical.
I read what was posted about the quarter test, but can someone pls explain? I would be interested in learning further.
I have big fire extinquishers in that building. Two upstairs and two down. It is seperate from the house woth its own breaker pannel. Which is on the list for updating with arc faults. Tje room with the railroad has master disconnects for the power. Bythe door. Thatvway if i forget to unplug. It is still turned off. I also have wiring trace diagrams for the building.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Always a good reminder Don. The quarter test confirms the layout is wired properly and will shut down in the event of a short circuit.
As a fireman for 23 years I can tell you that no one thinks it will happen to them, yet I know it will happen to someone, again and again. Fire prevention is about far more than the layout / train room. But for this forum we will stay focused.
Preventing a fire is the priority, which boils down to shutting off the layout, unplugging soldering irons etc - every time! Develop good habits. have safe wiring in the room, GFCI outlets, and now arc fault outlets. No blocking electric panels.
Should a fire occur when you are not in the room, do you having working smoke detectors in the train room? do you keep clutter to a minimum, old train boxes especially.
Should a fire occur when you are in the train room, it is a gut call to attempt to extinguish or just get out. Fires spread very very quickly, we advise people to make your family aware of the fire and get them out of the house, call 911, THEN attempt to extinguish the fire if you think it is still safe to do so. We all use the extruded foam. If on fire it will produce very black toxic smoke, do not attempt to re-enter the train room under such conditions.
I have seen people get so focused on extinguishing a fire that they waste too much time and forget to get help coming, people underestimate fires.
Remember this - protect your family, protect your home, forget the trains.
Martin.
Hi Don:
stuckinthe50sHe also stated that his layout failed the quarter test.
The quarter test is designed to confirm that the circuit protection is working, and that it will shut the power off in the event of an emergency. Clearly he ignored a very obvious warning sign that something was not right with his wiring. Obviously, the quarter test should be done regularly.
I read elsewhere that a guy had a fire in one of his turnouts. He suspected that it was due to a defective solder joint. He also stated that his layout failed the quarter test. It could have been much worse. This got me to thinking. Of over 150 pieces of flex track, have feeders to each one, I have a possibility of one of the 300 feeders having a cold solder joint, either at the rail or a bad connection to the bus. I have divided my layout into 5 seperate sections each protected by a PSX circuit breaker. I installed emergency lights when I finished the train room, have at minimum 36 inch asles, daylight basement with two double door exits. My DCC controller is about 40 feet from the door, which in my opinion, is a weak point in safety, but was a trade off in needing another booster. The circuit breaker box is in another room in the basement which could also present a problem, But worst of all, I still haven't purchased fire extinguishers.
I am curious as to how others approach safety in their train room. Would it be a good idea to rotinely perform the quarter test as part of maintenance? It is too late for me to change my room wiring, but not for somebody that may be starting room prep.