Looking at my collection of vintage locos, isolating the brushes involves either breaking a solder joint (brush connector soldered to motor frame) or slipping a piece of insulation onto the uninsulated end of the 'wishbone' brush tensioning spring. Isolating the entire motor is gross overkill.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with brass locomotives)
I agree with all the points made by Richard.
My two cents: None are "easy" and usually require other fixes, which can be teadious. If you've hard-wired DCC on other locos before, then go ahead and try. Otherwise, I would recommend you practice on plastic locos first, using cheap decoders with a decent guarantee. Next step up would be locos with a cast boiler, like an old Mantua, MDC or Bowser loco. You can still find Mantuas on Ebay at a decent price. Also, unless you have experience fixing these brass beauties, don't buy a loco that is not in running order. The main problem here is finding parts...
Good luck!
Simon
Related to the original posting........It depends on your definition of easy. If you mean "plug and pray", then NO, it is not easy. However, it is almost never impossible. Depending on the brass loco, you can expect to do some reworking ranging from isolating a motor or brushes to major surgery. Brass steamers can be tough. Smaller steamers like my HOn3 conversions can present even greater issues. However, for most HO scale and larger scale brass models, less stress is usually involved in a DCC conversion as more room is to be had and DCC with sound decoders are getting smaller each day.
DCC typically means you are a serious scale runner and love your locos to be able to crawl at very low speeds, extremely smoothly. This typically means yanking out the pittman motor and replacing it with a modern "super can" like a fahlhaber, ($100.00) motor.
You will have to place the DCC, especially if also a sound decoder, in the tender with its speaker. This means about 5 or more wires running loco to tender. (headlight too). In addition, be prepared to drill a bunch of holes in your lovely brass model. (most out of sight, of course.)
Super serious MR runners will place a thin pc board under the bottom of the loco and install fine phosphor bronze "wipers: on each insulated driver wheel inside rims to warrant a fabulous pickup on that rail with a wire to the tender from the PC board.
I don't call this sort of thing easy, but very doable for a moderately skilled MR.
Good luck if you try the conversion.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
I'm glad that this topic got brought up. I have a few brass steam locomotives that I would like to operate on a DCC layout.
Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA
Hi again,
To clarify...... I have no particular locos in mind, just curious as to what brand or type would be less complicated to work on and convert to DCC.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Whats the decoder you wish to use rated at for max current? I have two Bowser pittman equipped 4-8-4s which stall at close to 2A on DC
Jim
I have done about two-dozen decoder installs in brass steam, electric and 1 diesel locomotive. It amazes me that quite a few engines built in the 1970s & '80s had provisions for speakers in the tender floor and some even had cams on the driver axles for timing of the exhaust chuffs!
One minor annoyance I have dealt with are places where a truck side frame or sometimes a handrail may contact part of the engine and cause a short.
Careful placement of kapton tape or a coating of clear lacquer will help alleviate there shorts. In DC you can live with it but not so in DCC. Even with keep alive caps, a short will drain that capacitor in a flash!
I've been fortunate that all the engines I've wanted to convert have already had can motors with very low current draw. Sometimes getting the headlight wires run can be the biggest challenge!
Take a peek here for some handy advice: (you have to browse around a bit using the menu on the left but there are some good topics here about rebuilding and painting brass).
http://schutzer.net/index.htm
Good Luck, Ed
mobilman44,I've done a lot of DCC installs into old brass steamers. Not just for my own steamers, but also for friends and fellow club members. It's really not that difficult, depending if you have enough room in the boiler for a decoder. If you have to put it in the tender, then things get more interesting because of the 5 wires needed between the cab and the tender (2 to the motor, 1 from the drivers, and 2 to the headlight). If you can keep it in the boiler, then you don't need any plugs (just rely on the drawbar for tender pick-up)...unless you want a back up light, then you need 2 wires. But that's much better than 5.
Please note that isolating the motor from the frame is a bit of a misnomer. You don't have to isolate the motor from the frame. You need to isolate the brushes from the frame, which is not the same thing at all. I had one guy at my club go through all kinds of custom plastic motor mounts to isolate the motor from the frame of his old steamer. When he showed me, I said, "Um, all you had to do was snip this wire here." He blinked, and said, "You mean I didn't have to do all this work?!?" I mean he made a really nice plastic motor mount to replace the old metal one, but it was totally not needed as the brush was not grounded to the motor.The brush must be isolated from the frame. On many steamers, this is as simple as cutting one wire, then soldering in the decoder. If there's any question, use a multimeter to check for continuity.
If you want my advice, try to buy can motor-equipped locos. They tend to run better with less amps, less heat, and since they're newer, tend to have better drives (and more accuracy). Not that open frame motors can't be used for DCC. I use some myself. But cans are better.
Paul A. Cutler III
dinwitty pretty well summed it up. Always good to check for isolation with the continuity checker on your digital multimeter whichever way you do it.
The can motor is almost always a decided improvment on the older open frame motors, but not absolutely necessary if the old motor can be isolated and you decoder can handle the amperage.
If DCC only, the current path that exists usually works OK once isolated.
If you're planning DCC/sound, best to add wipers on the black side of the loco and wipers on the red side of the tender. I make mine from Tichy 0.010" phosphor bronze wire, tacked to a small pad cut from PCB tie material, to which the lead wire is also attached.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi,
I find myself eyeballing some of the older PFM, United, etc. brass steam locos on Ebay, particularly those for the Santa Fe and Illinois Central. I realize most of them are a major chore to isolate motors and install decoders, but I was curious if there was a particular brand/product that would be less complicated to convert.