Trainman440 Randy, I don't think that that's the problem. The chuffs are designed to have the 3rd chuff a little louder and the 4th a little quicker and softer. And so when you speed it up, the fourth chuff is almost unheard, making it sound like 3 chuffs per rev. Charles
Randy, I don't think that that's the problem. The chuffs are designed to have the 3rd chuff a little louder and the 4th a little quicker and softer. And so when you speed it up, the fourth chuff is almost unheard, making it sound like 3 chuffs per rev.
Charles
If that's the case, then the fix would be a simple firmware update. I would be very surprised if the chip inside is not updateable, even if the proprietary method to do so it not released to the end user ala Lokprogrammer or the Quantum Programmer. Not even really a firmware update but a replacement of the chuff sounds.
Don;t understand why they would want the third chuff to be louder. But the video of one running at speed did sound all that much off from a movie of the real thing running at speed. When the siderods are moving at blurred speeds there is no way you can count the chuffs per revolution anyway. The whole thing tends to blur into a continuous roar, model and prototype. Models that have a clearly audible 4 chuffs even though the drivers are turning at mile a minute speed are the ones that have it wrong.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerNot sure why they didn't go with that, or at least put the magnet somewhere downstream after the gear reduction to it's not spinning at full motor RPM.
I agree, Randy. I have some brass engines from the late 1970s that have a four-lobe cam on one of the driver axles. Talk about forward planning! Sound was certainly in its infancy back then. BLI is still using the reed switch and magnet set into the flywheel.
Its no secret that BLI and MTH have engaged in litigation over sound/smoke/chuffing issues. They are probably reluctant to get into any head-butting over this, however I can't see how MTH could claim any proprietary rights over simple technology like a hall sensor?
Ed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I think someone mentioned that MTH has the rights to Hall sensors, so BLI no doubt doesn't want to subsidize a competitor via licensing fees.
Or you could hang out and wait a little while they fix it. If this is the common experience, they WILL fix it, they can't pass it off as a "too bad" and expect to still sell product. It's almost all related to using a reed switch and magnet on the motor for the chuff sync. I suspect a cheaper reed switch, since Paragon 2 uses the same method and they work fine. From an engineering point of view, having the sensor change state 16 x as fast as the event (or whatever the gear ratio is they use in these things) is pretty silly. A reed switch just isn't made to operate that fast. A Hall sensor would be far superior. Not sure why they didn't go with that, or at least put the magnet somewhere downstream after the gear reduction to it's not spinning at full motor RPM.
cold steal I had a feeling the new decoder wouldent help.
I had a feeling the new decoder wouldent help.
I didn't think so, either. But that's what the repair guru suggested so I went along with their advice. I have the engine boxed-up and ready to go back to Florida.
Ultimately, I'll probably rip out this decoder and install a WOWsound one. I'll use the Rolling Thunder reciever as a coffee coaster and the subwoofer can plug into my layout room stereo system since I already have one for the "home theater" upstairs.
Chalk it up to an expensive experiment...
Being a BIG fan of BLI's Paragon 2 sound, I expected even better Paragon 3 sound. But the chuffs get so short when you run it above speed step 55 that it sounds like 3 huffs per rev. And the Bell sounds ok, but like I said in another forum, the end of the bell sounds really weird. It stops, then rings 2 more times then finally steady quiets down.
Another thing: I tried programming it via programming track and it would program, but once I restart the engine, it would go back to the factory programed cvs. I thought it was just some sort of problem, so I reseted all the cvs. This happened again, and I reseted it again. Then I tried Programing on the main. For some reason, Programing on the main works better on this engine. (opposite of the Para 3 Tech Update)
Overall, I was pretty disappointed.
My replacement decoder arrived from BLI yesterday ($1.43 postage due ) and after installing it there was no change in the performance. I wrote and told them as much then requested a RMA number but have not heard back, yet.
Below is a photo of the decoder. The Rolling Thunder transmitter is the piggy-back board with the blue pig-tail. It has BLI-TX-300-B stamped on it. I have no idea how a signal can get out of the thick, die-cast tender shell and floor! That part is amazing. There is a heavy steel shield over the speakers. I wonder if it is for heat dissipation or magnetic shielding?
I would have to believe that they used the same sound files in the I1 but can not confirm this. I already have four Paragon2 I1s so that's why I opted for the L1 (at $50 more) I really regret jumping into this Rolling Thunder thing. I have over $600 tied up in it and, so far, have no use for it. There is already a Technical Service Bulletin posted at the BLI site:
http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon3technicalupdate.aspx
I've always been very satisfied with Broadway's offerings but I guess this time it is my turn in the pickle barrel!
Waiting to hear back from BLI,
Any more reviews of these things? Also, does the latest run of I1's suffer from the same sound problems as the L1's?
I read a couple buyer reviews on the MB Klein website, and they're not great.
I wonder if the poor sound quality is partially due to BLI tying their sound effects into their Rolling Thunder system, so (theoretically) you won't get the best sound without buying an extra gewgaw. Also, this "power chuff" sounds like a bad idea, more of a gimmick than anything else. Last, the MBK reviewers mention that bearing plates are missing from the trailing truck and part of the frame is missing from the firebox area. I guess that explains why the rest of the engines look good in pictures, but the firebox/trailing truck look "off." I'd want to see one in person, but boy, this sounds like a muffed opportunity.
Mine was stalling too. I attached a wire to the wheels of the trailing truck under the cab and ran it to the first set of wheels on tender. Now that it's getting juice from that wheel, the stalling has stopped. B.T.W., I do this to all my newer B.L.I's as most of them would stall regularly. (the older ones are great). Sound wise, it seems the chuffs are not synced correctly but at least it IS STILL chuffing unlike my H-10 and Dryfus Hudson. A smarter consumer would pass on these as priced but I'm a sucker for metal pennsy steam! And yes I have the 6-8-6 turbine coming.
Sounds less than overwhelming (pardon the pun). Guess I'll wait a bit before committing, but man, I was hoping they got it right. If not, there will probably be a run on old PFM Pennsy lollipops.
cold steal I have one and I'm curious about others experiences. Not surprisingly I'm not thrilled.
I have one and I'm curious about others experiences. Not surprisingly I'm not thrilled.
Rich
Alton Junction
So far, I'm not impressed, either. Others have mentioned the lack of detail behind the trailing truck but I think I can work some piping under there to mask the dead space and hide the trailing truck spring.
I have not been able to run it more than one foot on the main without the locomotive going completely dead.
Upon close inspection I saw a loose wire below the motor where the harness was supposed to attach to the frame.
Here is the wire which I attached to the frame. The hole was there (just in view behind the spring hanger) and tapped but no screw in it — or anywhere in the packaging, therefore left the factory in this condition.
So I figured this would cure the intermittent pick-up problem but, no, it persisted.
An email to BLI was responded to quickly. After giving them the symptoms they said it sounds like a bad decoder and they gave me the option of replacing it myself or sending the engine back to them.
I opted to replace the decoder which is due to arrive Wednesday.
During the brief periods that I did have the engine running I found the Paragon3 sounds to be awful! The exhaust has a limp gallop that sounds like the engine is saying "gitty' up; gitty-up'; gitty-up" and the exhaust "chuffs" sound like sandpaper scraping a tin can.
Likewise, the bell sounds more like an electronic bell on a modern diesel. I'd like to rip the decoder out and install a TCS WOWsound but I have another $200 invested in the"Rolling Thunder" gimmick and I'm not ready to toss in the towel until I can mess with it enough to see if I can get any reasonable use out of it.
I only bought the L1 to try out the Thunder Box.
If the decoder changeout does not fix the problem the L1 will go back to Ormond Beach where they can play with it for a few months...
Just my 2¢ — Ed