Athearn F59PHIs are sweet. They start and run smooth at a very low speed. These never came in a blue box but there are two different versions. This one is the DCC ready version. It has more details installed and more detailed paint than the DC version. It runs smoother and starts at a lower speed than any of the old blue box loco kits I own. It is comparable to any high end loco.
BigzekeCan't believe I didn't catch that it's VERSUS, sorry Bigzeke
Hah hah, no worries Zeke. But you can still catch the virus - Athearn makes some nice stuff. I recently ordered a couple of their SP SD40R's which are the rebuilt SP SD40's, good for around 1980 or so and going forward. They makes some nice stuff and prices are pretty decent for these days.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
fieryturboI contracted it from a Proto 2000 with an Athearn drive.
My LL P2k SD7's and SD9's are like that, even to the awful blue box coupler mounts thats going to take some doing to re-do them so that they are decent. Those awful plastic clips don't hold couplers on very well at all, very dodgy. The drive itself is better than most blue box drives. So while it is a clone, it seems to run better out of the box.
Kato? Really? Yes they make exceptional product - but they don't make very much of it - there is literally nothing in the Kato line that fits my layout. Sheldon
Sheldon
Yes, basically KATO isn't probably going to offer anything even for the 60's and 70's folks, other than a few re-runs of diesels I already have. The only diesesl of interest to me are the GP35's SD45's and SD40's but Athearn offers the latter two with prototypical details matching my favorite RR.s. KATO is an N scale and overseas manufacturer anymore with only the odd HO offering which is mostly for wide cab modern folks.
I would assume that the virus is the one identified by the CDC as the HO/N virus that produces rivetcounterosis, an annoying, but usually non-lethal condition that presents with symptoms including, but not limited to, a sense of irrational superiority, an intolerance of minor variances from dead-on prototypical accuracy and a massive sense of outrage when things are just not absolutely perfect.
Andre
Doughless riogrande5761 Doughless Yes, Athearn RTRs run better than their BB counterparts, but probably not as good as your Kato. Athearn Genesis run about as good as your Kato, but are more expensive. If you ran two of my D&RGW Athearn SD45's you'd swear they were KATO's in the quiet smooth way they run. I was very pleasantly surprised. I've had similar results. I think right out of the box there is a difference in running quality between Athearn BB and kato. Especially, Katos run consistently well right out of the box and not all Athearns run as well as consistently. Proto is terrible that way, some smooth, some quiet, some rougher, some noisy, even the same run of the same loco. I was just trying to give the newbie a simple answer, and not one of those typical five paragragh, ultimately, "it depends" answers.
riogrande5761 Doughless Yes, Athearn RTRs run better than their BB counterparts, but probably not as good as your Kato. Athearn Genesis run about as good as your Kato, but are more expensive. If you ran two of my D&RGW Athearn SD45's you'd swear they were KATO's in the quiet smooth way they run. I was very pleasantly surprised.
Doughless Yes, Athearn RTRs run better than their BB counterparts, but probably not as good as your Kato. Athearn Genesis run about as good as your Kato, but are more expensive.
Yes, Athearn RTRs run better than their BB counterparts, but probably not as good as your Kato. Athearn Genesis run about as good as your Kato, but are more expensive.
If you ran two of my D&RGW Athearn SD45's you'd swear they were KATO's in the quiet smooth way they run. I was very pleasantly surprised.
I've had similar results. I think right out of the box there is a difference in running quality between Athearn BB and kato. Especially, Katos run consistently well right out of the box and not all Athearns run as well as consistently. Proto is terrible that way, some smooth, some quiet, some rougher, some noisy, even the same run of the same loco.
I was just trying to give the newbie a simple answer, and not one of those typical five paragragh, ultimately, "it depends" answers.
Kato? Really? Yes they make exceptional product - but they don't make very much of it - there is literally nothing in the Kato line that fits my layout.
A little off topic but if the software engineer who created "auto correct" software for word processing is also hired to help design software for use in autonomous drive automobiles, we're all in big trouble!!!!
Hornblower
I contracted it from a Proto 2000 with an Athearn drive.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Also consider that the older "Blue Boxes" will certainly be much much cheaper than the newer Athearn models.
fieryturboTo be fair, I think most of us have the Athearn virus.
Which virius, the pre Horizon blue box era virus or the post Horizon RTR/Genesis virus? At least one poster here seems to have stopped at the end of the first era and hasn't caught the latter day virus.
To be fair, I think most of us have the Athearn virus.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I can't really offer much experiance here, the only Athearn locos I have are old blue box F units completely rebuilt/upgraded, Genesis F units, and RS units made more than a decade ago - all are fine in my view. But I do find the reponses interesting - some posters mentioning locos that I could not even told you that Athearn made, let alone differences from older to newer versions. We all have perceptons of the various brands based on our experiances with the products that fit our modeling interests. A company like Athearn has such a large selection, that one modeler may be very unhappy with the set of products that fit his modeling, while another is completely happy with a different set of products that fit his modeling.
I can't really offer much experiance here, the only Athearn locos I have are old blue box F units completely rebuilt/upgraded, Genesis F units, and RS units made more than a decade ago - all are fine in my view.
But I do find the reponses interesting - some posters mentioning locos that I could not even told you that Athearn made, let alone differences from older to newer versions. We all have perceptons of the various brands based on our experiances with the products that fit our modeling interests. A company like Athearn has such a large selection, that one modeler may be very unhappy with the set of products that fit his modeling, while another is completely happy with a different set of products that fit his modeling.
An awful lot has changed since Irv has gone and while I respect the company which brought us inexpensive HO model trains and helped make the hobby accessable to average people, I have to say the changes made in the company since the turn of the century has brought many many wonderful products - especially the Genesis line of engines and freight cars, but many nice RTR rolling stock products too.
I am a bit biased as a western 1970's and 1980's fan which Athearn has probably produced the applicable models for. That being said, different companies have catered to different genre's in the hobby - just like Atlas caters more to the eastern railroads, Bowser more to the northeast, Fox Valley to the upper midwest, Tangent to the transition era to the early 1980's etc. and ExactRail many items for many era's and tasts. There is something for most US palettes.
But I would like to reinforce the point made by one poster, that it is hard to judge these products as group by brand name. each product has a different history of development and upgrades. Different products are aimed at different groups of modelers. Judging any model railroad product strictly by brand will leave you happily surprised with some, and disapointed with others. Sheldon
And there lies the trick with Athearn. They have produced a wide variety of products since things started to really take of around 2000, and they do not only manufacturer trains based on their own tooling (i.e. blue box) but they've acquired Model Die Casting, Rail Power Products, Details West, and others which they have upgraded to varying degree - some minor upgrades, others quite extensively. And they've created much new fine tooling as well which includes items in their RTR line such as the SD45T-2's and freight cars, as well as Genesis rolling stock.
- Douglas
BRAKIEAbsolutely.. The improved RTR SW1500 is superior to the older BB SW1500-NOT the SW7 that was mislabled as a SW1500.
You're right Brakie! I have one of those BB "SW1500's". They don't even closely resemble one. But, they do resemble an SW9/SW1200, or maybe even a SW7. How Athearn got that so wrong, I don't know; and they went on to continuue replicating that error. I have one that I repainted and tuned up for my freelanced TEC RR. I call it an SW9.
I do have to agree with others here; the new Athearn RTR locos run better than the old BB's, even tuned up, especially at low speeds. I have the gamut: Athearn BB's. Athearn RTR's, Athearn Genesis, Kato, Atlas and Atlas (yellow box) with Kato drives, as well as Life Like Proto 2000. If you're talking about Athearn though, I would say that the RTR and the Genesis are very similar in performance, at least with the limited amount of experience I've had running these locomotives.
Generally speaking, the Athearn RTR's have various improvements in drive quality over the old Blue Box versions. Namely:1). Nickel-Silver wheels have replaced the old sintered ones, resulting in much more dependable electrical contact.
2). Dogbone drive shafts have replaced the old 1-key sliding shaft type, resulting in less vibration and thus a more quiet drive.
3). Shouldered truck gears have replaced the old full width truck gears, resulting in less drag against the gear boxes, and thus less noise and more effeciency.
4). Plastic worm gears have replaced the old brass worm gears, resulting in less noise and drag in the drive train.
5). Wired contacts to the trucks have replaced the old metal strips (except for the original RTR's), resulting in more dependable operation.
Paul A. Cutler III
The RTRs IMO run better than the old BB ones.
As with Jim said, the old BB engines that were the gp/sd series (ex. SD40-2) had their sides too wide. This was in order to compensate for their wide drive mech.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
But I would like to reinforce the point made by one poster, that it is hard to judge these products as group by brand name. each product has a different history of development and upgrades. Different products are aimed at different groups of modelers. Judging any model railroad product strictly by brand will leave you happily surprised with some, and disapointed with others.
Bigzeke New to the site, probably rehashed before but do the current Athearn run any better than the blue box models ? I have several Kato's that perform great at low speeds. I'm still running DC on my switching layout
New to the site, probably rehashed before but do the current Athearn run any better than the blue box models ? I have several Kato's that perform great at low speeds. I'm still running DC on my switching layout
Absolutely.. The improved RTR SW1500 is superior to the older BB SW1500-NOT the SW7 that was mislabled as a SW1500.
Here's the thing to watch.. The eariler RTR engines are supped up BB with plastic handrails.The later runs has grab irons,plastic handrails and some even have plows and sunshades.
All of my RTR Athearn engines run smooth.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Some thing to keep in mind:
'BB' engines include old 'wide body' shells to better stuff like the SD40-2...
The current production 'RTR' line is quite good:
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The RTR SW1500 would be a good choice for your switching layout. It has a can motor similar to your Kato, so it should run equal to it. Other RTR that are small enough to be plausible on a switching layouts tend to have the same motor as your BB, but still run a bit better.
AntonioFP45 The newer Athearn RTR units are decent and run more smoothly than their "wide-boy" ancestors. Dimensions are much more accurate, paint jobs are sharp and so is the basic body detailing. I recently bought two RTR SD45s (Frisco with the "L-windsheild" and a Southern "Hi-noser".
The newer Athearn RTR units are decent and run more smoothly than their "wide-boy" ancestors. Dimensions are much more accurate, paint jobs are sharp and so is the basic body detailing. I recently bought two RTR SD45s (Frisco with the "L-windsheild" and a Southern "Hi-noser".
Something to keep in mind is the Athearn SD45' is not based on the old blue box SD45 which had a wide body. It is based on reworked/improved tooling from the old Rail Power Products SD45 shell. It has different heritage so really it's a bit of a unrelated comparison to make. However, they are Athearn products and while they still have some of the crude aspects of the old RPP shells, there have been a lot of improvements and they are nicely detailed with many prototype spacific details, like the SP L-windshield, correct snow plow, light package etc.
"New Athearn virus old Blue Box"
Just get some anti-virus and you'll be all set!
In all seriousness, the topic is a very loaded one and the only proper answer is, "it depends". Athearn has been offering RTR diesels, many are versions of the old blue box loco's, for some 12+ years. The earlier RTR loco's had some spotty issues with running qualities, some reported as "coffee grinders" while others pretty good. This became a much talked about issue. I think around 7-8 years ago Athearn began stepping up it's game in terms of running qualities and motors etc. and their RTR models have generally gotten much better.
All of the RTR models I have bought were made around 2007 and later starting with the first run of SD40T-2's. I haven't run all of my models yet, but so far the ones I've tried have been good to excellent. A couple of SD45's seem to run like KATO's. Just sayin... as always YMMV.
The newer Athearn RTR units are decent and run more smoothly than their "wide-boy" ancestors. Dimensions are much more accurate, paint jobs are sharp and so is the basic body detailing. I recently bought two RTR SD45s (Frisco with the "L-windsheild" and a Southern "Hi-noser". I'll post photos in a future thread.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH65008
I purchased non-sound since I prefer to install a LokSound decoder rather than Soundtraxx. Loksound's motor control is excellent.
My primary criticism about the current (and recent past) Athearn RTR hood units is that the the walkways are smooth and not "treaded" as on the prototypes. Even the old Life Like Proto 2000 hood units featured treaded walkways. However, there are tread pattern decals on the market which I'll be buying for them soon.
Overall, I'm happy with my two units.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Bigzeke,
Still depends on the model. I have two RTR Athearn units, one is flawless in operation, the other one, not as good as a well tuned BB that is still going on my layout, with added DCC. (It needs tuned like the aforementioned well tuned BB.)
Early Athearn RTR were simply pre-assembled BB units. If it is one of their early runs, than no better, no worse running than a kit BB. (Can be a solid runner if properly tuned.) Newer ones, much better. (And, for a price, most can get the upgraded Genesis motor, for even better performance.)
Kato will still be better than RTR. (Genesis can come close too, or equal them though, depending on model.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.