I bought a Tyco Clementine off of eBay. The motor seems to be fine, at least to my eyes, but she won't move even after it was cleaned (And I'm fairly sure I got all the gunk). It usually feels like the motor is spinning, but the gears don't move. I'm not sure what else might help, so I'm asking for help. And I mean actual help, not "EWW Don't use tyco you scrub".
Interiors and people figures make such a difference. Especially the people.
Make sure the small gear in image one is not slipping on the shaft. If it is you may need some loctite.
Jim
Already have done. And when I turn the spindle by hand both the motor core and the gears turn. Vexing.
You didn't lose the brushes when you took the back off the motor, did you? If so, there's nothing touching the commutator, so no juice. Also, the commutator looks VERY cruddy. Start with some alcohol on a q-tip, but you may need a little more abrasive, like a pencil eraser, to get it truly shined up.
The commutator is those three segments seen in your bottom picture. On the side of that plate that faces that part of the motor, there should be some sort of contacts that touch this. On most motors they are little pieces of graphite.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Gunkhead:
There has been/is a great deal of discussion of this particular model and the underlying motor it originally came with on the TYCO Collectors Forum. You may find some more discussion of this model by posting there as well; in addition, some forum members there may have alternate powering solutions or rebuilding advice. Also, use their search tool with "tyco clementine". I am not sure, but I believe the operation issues this model has are also paralleled by the Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo engine, which also has a tender powered system.
Cedarwoodron
This is the same loco as the Chatanooga Choo Choo, just different paint scheme.
http://www.goingincirclez.com/TycoTrains/Guide/PowerTorqueRepair
Possible a plastic gear has a few teeth stripped,
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Hi gunkhead!
Are you sure the motor's axle is spinning? Do you see movment inside the motor?
And are the gears spinning when you apply power?
Make sure the gear under and behind the big gear is spinning when you apply power. If not then there is your problem.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
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Looking inside the motor is just a weeeee bit hard with it closed up, which I would imagine it has to be in order to run if the brushes (Which yes, I do have) touching the commutator is that important.
I don't think any gears are stripped - they don't appear to be and they all mesh when I turn the workings by hand with the motor opened up.
The crud on the commutator was definitely a major issue. After having cleaned and refreshed it, I've seen the pinion gear actually trying to turn, and when I push the tender chassis along in the direction the controller is set the gears now turn. So based on that, lubrication is the logical next step. What should I use? Are graphite lube or Goo Gone good ideas?
you should be able to turn the big black gear fairly easily. Crud tends to collect under the gear and can cause the gear to be hard to move. If you can not turn it, the motor will not be able to turn it.
The silver small gear can and dose cone loose. That will also be a problem. It is worth a check, but usually when it comes loose, it will fly off and is lost.
Did you clean the brushs and springs when you had the side of the motor off? These are critical electrical connections. The have to be clean and properly installed.
There are a lot of tricks to these motors. The main thing is to keep oil out of the brush cavity. This is difficult because the bearing surfaces need some oil. Use an artist brush to apply oil lightly. It does no good to have the brushes swimming in oil, which is often why these motors won't run.
These loco's were indeed to run short trains at moderate to high power continuously. When they were designed, they were primarily train set toys for that purpose. To expect them to do better than that is probably unrealistic. When thinking about using an alternate drive, the added cost needs to be considered. It is easy to approach the cost of a better model trying to improve an average one.
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
So many trains, so little time,
As I have already stated in this thread, the small gear is firmly attached.
The gears turn, but do not turn easily even when I'm just fiddling the mechanism by hand with the loco dismantled. Lubrication is obviously in order, as I noted in my last reply. I also asked whether Goo Gone or graphite lube would be a good idea.
I would say that Labelle has some of the best lubs. Though I use Bachmann light oil on the gears and axles and Bachmann's contact lub on the motor brushes.
You should use a light oil on these gears. The tiny motor will have a difficult time if grease is used. Labelle is a fine product but the cSt value of 0-20w synthetic motor oil is the same and is plastic compatiable. And a quart costs the same as small tube of Labelle.
However, based on your comments, it sounds like the armature has a winding concern. One of the three poles could be open or partially shorted. Either way the motor will try to run depending if a "good" or "bad" pole is aligned with the brushes.
I have found that these need to have the wheel axles lubed too. Plus fuzz gets wrapped around the axles from bein gon the floor at christmass. That can bind it. The wheels on the drive axles could be a little tight. Going by the statement that they turn but are a little stiff. So take the drive axles/wheels off and try to turn the gears and apply power to the motor and see what happens. There is a tephlon lubricant from dupont that goes on as a fluid but dries to a tephlone film. You can get at lowes. It is also very light. So that motor should have no problems.with it.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Oh, and when I said to check if the motor was moving when you apply power, I meant hold the engine when its underpower and look through the hole ontop of the little metal gear ans tell me if you see any movement.
I would like to offer you all my sincere thanks - you've all been quite helpful.
Helpful - the opposite of what the loco herself has been. I removed the gears and cleanedthem and their posts of gunk, lubed things up with a little Hoppe's 9 oil that I'd found in the garage. Tried running the loco again, now it just seemed like all I needed to do was maybe glue the pinion gear again (I had removed it both to clean it and to facilitate removing the other gears). But then before I could confirm that, the loco just stopped picking up power entirely - even the headlight wasn't coming on. And what do you know, it turned out that the solder joint connecting the red wire to its copper tab (and thus, to the motor) decided to give out. So I've decided... as long as I have to do harder work on this any way I may as well scavenge a disk tray motor and upgrade her.
gunkhead I would like to offer you all my sincere thanks - you've all been quite helpful. Helpful - the opposite of what the loco herself has been. I removed the gears and cleanedthem and their posts of gunk, lubed things up with a little Hoppe's 9 oil that I'd found in the garage. Tried running the loco again, now it just seemed like all I needed to do was maybe glue the pinion gear again (I had removed it both to clean it and to facilitate removing the other gears). But then before I could confirm that, the loco just stopped picking up power entirely - even the headlight wasn't coming on. And what do you know, it turned out that the solder joint connecting the red wire to its copper tab (and thus, to the motor) decided to give out. So I've decided... as long as I have to do harder work on this any way I may as well scavenge a disk tray motor and upgrade her.
Post your progress on that, please. I'd like to see it, as I have a couple of those drives with some varying ideas for uses.
This post stirred memories of when I took an Athearn SW (7?) switcher drive, and put it in a tender that was elongated by splicing 2 Chattanooga tender sections so I had a flywheel drive smooth runner. The tender looked too long though for a 2-8-0, so I put it later on a Rivarossi 4-6-2 with removed motor and gears. I removed the brake detail on the trucks in an attept to make them look less diesel. That was a long time ago...
Well, been awhile. And... I'm a bit frustrated and not sure what to do next.
The new motor is installed, and the wires seem to be soldered to it just fine, but it isn't running.
Based on the headlight acting up, I would guess that the wiring at the smokebox end is to blame for the issues... but I can't identify what exactly is wrong with these wires (well, other than the smoke generator's filament being broken but that was an accident of my fidgeting with the thing trying to straighten it after I removed the internal plastic cover to have a look.
How are you applying power to it? If by placing it on the track, the bad connection could be anywhere between the wheels and motor. If you apply power to the motor directly with wires from the power pack, and it works, or doesn't work, that helps isolate the prob. Then work out from there.
And a for what it's worth, I didn't have to lengthen the tender to get the Athearn drive under it as stated earlier. It fits with a bit of mods to both the tender shell, and the Athearn frame. (I still have it (!), and was playing around with it after this thread reminded me of it. Dan
Oh! And a request: Could you show us a picture of the other side of the motor, the gear side please? Thanks.
I have had Goo Gone melt some plastics. A better choice might be CRC QD® Electronic Cleaner. It's plastic safe. I buy it at Walmart for less that $5.00.
How strong are the magnets. Magnets can get weak over time. If they are weak, the motor won't produce enough torgue to move the engine.
What voltage is your CD rom motor rated at? You need one which is rated at 12 volts. Many use 5 volts.
Disconnect the lighting and smoke unit. As mentioned, concentrate on the path from the rails to the motor.
Not a fan of cheap DMMs but at this point a cheap Harbor Freight meter is better than no meter.
Cheap DMMs are fine, just don't measure house current with them. They have ZERO protection on the inputs, unless having the whole meter melt in your hand is 'protection'
ALso just get some clip leads and hook the power directly to the motor tabs and see if it spins. If the motor gets power when you do that, the problem is with where the wires are attached to the track pickups. If the wires are not broken, then perhaps you have the red and black both going to the same side of the loco, so both on the same rail, which means there is no complete circuit. If the motro doesn't run with the power applied directly to the terminals, you have a bad motor. If the motor spins but the gear train doesn't - see which gear is not meching or just spinning on the shaft.
GunkHead:
Make sure the wiring is done properly. The Black is connected to the tender pickups that are ALL PICKING UP FROM 1 RAIL right? And the red wire is connected to the loco's wheels that are picking up power FROM THE OPPOSITE RAIL right?
Just making sure
Soo Line fan What voltage is your CD rom motor rated at? You need one which is rated at 12 volts. Many use 5 volts. Disconnect the lighting and smoke unit. As mentioned, concentrate on the path from the rails to the motor. Not a fan of cheap DMMs but at this point a cheap Harbor Freight meter is better than no meter.
I hadn't thought to check the motor voltage. What do you know, it's 5 volts. And so's the only other one I have access too. Thanks Hewlett Packard, thanks so much. I guess I'll have to put the Powertorque motor back together. The magnets are thankfully still very strong.
As far as the path from the rails to the motor goes... The rails are clean, the wheels are clean, the metal wheel blocks are clean, the solder joints of the wires to the little copper plates that screw to the wheel blocks are good... and that's really all there is to the pickup system. And the pickup wheels on the tender are on the correct side, so it's not that. So either something with the wiring at the smokebox end was screwing things up, the solder joints to the motor weren't as good as they looked, or the motor's being 5v was causing it to not even try to run (it hasn't once even vibrated like the original motor did - the vibration was how I knew the original was at least trying to spin).
Randy, which part of that CD motor looked like it had tabs? Not I think we even have clip leads small enough... or that it matters now... sigh... all those abrasive bits worn down for nothing...
rrinker Cheap DMMs are fine, just don't measure house current with them. They have ZERO protection on the inputs, unless having the whole meter melt in your hand is 'protection'
Or explode at the service panel
I have used HF meters for some years. Have four. I keep on in the car. Twelve volt system.
They do not measure AC house current. All pepole have to do is follow instructions.
I do know there is a fuse in the meter but don't remember what it protects.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
There is no good reason to not have a meter.
Soo Line Fan Randy, which part of that CD motor looked like it had tabs? Not I think we even have clip leads small enough... or that it matters now... sigh... all those abrasive bits worn down for nothing...
Where the wires solder on to the motor. Something else to pick up while you're at is, a set of test leads with SMALL alligator clips. Not those hefty ones that can connect to a car battery. They usually come in sets of 10 or so with different color wires and shrouds on the clips.
If it's a 5V motor, it should just pretty much take off really fast and if you crank the throttle up to full it would likely burn out the windings. It wouldn't likely instantly burn out or not move at all if it was functional and the wires were hooked up properly.
richg1998 I have used HF meters for some years. Have four. I keep on in the car. Twelve volt system. They do not measure AC house current. All pepole have to do is follow instructions. I do know there is a fuse in the meter but don't remember what it protects. http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm There is no good reason to not have a meter. Rich
Sure they can - even says good to 600V. Class 2 insulation - which is an absolute lie, just slapped on by the Chinese manufacturer. The little fuse is for the milliamp range, mine all have a 10 amp range with a different probe connection point. Inside there's just a big heavy wire current shunt to detect those high currents and absolutely no fuse to protect the user or the meter. A proper meter has a big ceramic HRC fuse so it doesn't explode and the broken piece of the fuse contact some other point and transfer the voltage to the user.
They are, however, perfectly fine for model railroad use, since we tend to never go above 20 volts. You aren't going to fry yourself checking the track power or the stall current of a loco. Plenty accurate, probably no better than 1 or 2%, if even that good, but that's fine for model railroads. Just not for precision electronics. Replacements are cheaper than buying new batteries when they go dead. I've seen places trying to sell that exact same meter you get for free or $5 for as much as $15 or $20. Now THAT is a ripoff. At the HF price - stock up so you always have one, in case one fails. I have about a half dozen of them, one the batteries have died, but otherwise no problems with them failing.
rrinkerThe little fuse is for the milliamp range, mine all have a 10 amp range with a different probe connection point. Inside there's just a big heavy wire current shunt to detect those high currents and absolutely no fuse to protect the user or the meter.
Such as this:
rrinkerA proper meter has a big ceramic HRC fuse so it doesn't explode and the broken piece of the fuse contact some other point and transfer the voltage to the user.
Some have two large ceramic fuses, one for A and the other for MA.
But if you stay away from AC, the Harbor is better than nothing and better than guessing.
Alligator clips are fine for most temporary test needs but I found that for the really small, non-shorting hookups these mini plunger type test clips can be very handy!
I have found them to be better for clipping on to motor terminals and PC board applications... I have a few that are sub-miniature and they can clip on to a leg of an IC chip if needed.
YMMV, Ed