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Need to fence in an oil terminal - what do you recommend?

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Anaheim, CA Bayfield, CO
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Posted by Southwest Chief on Friday, November 27, 2015 2:27 PM

All great suggestions thus far.  And Peter already mentioned BLMA.

And although you mentioned going with the Conerstone (Walthers) fencing, if you were looking for pics of BLMA fencing; here's BLMA fencing around an oil well on my layout:

Link to large image

Link to large image

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

  • Member since
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  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, November 27, 2015 12:59 PM

Hi,

Back from a Thanksgiving vacation, and while its good to leave, its good to be home.   I've decided to go with the Cornerstone chain link fence, and will string up "barbed wire" on top.  

From my experience, the coils of "barbed wire" were typically called razor wire, and were used for prisons and sensitive government and private installations.  Regular "barbed wire" was used for the more routine jobs.  I'm sure some of the reason is that it is much easier to install and of course cheaper.

BTW, collecting samples of barbed wire is a serious hobby here in Texas, and you can find displays of them in antique or curio stores.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 1:00 AM

Hi Lee:

Flower wire should work just fine.

As far as what industries would have used chain link fencing, I think that is up to you. It's your railroad and you are absolutely free to put fencing wherever you think it will look appropriate.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by davidmurray on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 9:20 AM

kasskaboose
Are certain industries more likely to have chain link fences than others? I would def think that oil terminals have them, but what about freight yards or other industries?

I would say it depends on the era.

By 1969 I know that Ford and GM had chain link around their factories in Canada.  And definitely around new vechicles waiting to be shipped.

Fences tell honest people that the area is private.

Dave

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by HO-Velo on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 8:54 AM

MOBILman44,

BLMA sells some nice looking chainlink fence material.  I chose to roll my own "Cyclone" fencing using sheet nylon mesh filter material from a lab supply co. and brass wire from Cloverhouse.  Made up a wooden jig to help hold the uprights for soldering and used fine rust color EZline to simulate barbed wire.  In retrospect should have bent the top portion of the uprights where the barbed wire is fastened, live and learn. 

Best wishes and regards, Peter

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 8:34 AM

Hon30: Could you use flower wire for the barbed wire?

Are certain industries more likely to have chain link fences than others?  I would def think that oil terminals have them, but what about freight yards or other industries? 

What I might do is get the Walthers set and use that as a guide for making my own.  $13 is a suitable amount for most industries, but won't provide enough fence for the yard.

~Lee

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 7:23 AM

mobilman44:

Barbed wire atop fences has two possible alternatives. One is straight lengths of wire attached to angled supports which are mounted on top of the fence posts. The other option is coiled barbed wire which sits on top of the fence.

For the straight type, someone suggested using EZ line because it can be installed with a bit of tension to keep the wires from warping. Here is the thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/239625.aspx

For the coiled barbed wire, I would suggest using fine gauge soft brass wire. Wrap it around a tube to get the circular pattern. Use a smaller diameter tube than what you want for the finished wire coils because the wire will not retain the exact diameter of the tube.

I recall a post, I believe it was in WPF a few months ago, where someone had used this technique to model barbed wire coils. They looked quite good. I'll see if I can find the post.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:28 AM

Thanks Ray for the reminder!   Had to deal with that on a real gate I built years ago.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
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Posted by Colorado Ray on Monday, November 23, 2015 11:32 PM

When constructing your gates pay attention to the diagonal cross bracing.  The Walthers package shows the correct placement on the left gate and incorrect on the right.  To prevent the gate from sagging the diagonal brace needs to be in compression.  That means upper end away from the hinge and lower end at the hinge.

Ray

  • Member since
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  • From: Southeast Texas
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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, November 23, 2015 4:36 PM

Hi again,

Thanks all for the input, it is appreciated.   I believe I'll end up with the Cornerstone chain link and add in some barb wire on top (silver thread?).  But, I'll be away for a few days and will revisit that decision when I get back. 

Good idea on that hairpin fence (cutting off the top "U"s)........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
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  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, November 23, 2015 3:00 PM

I've also used the Walthers fence.  I've used a few sets to get all the fence I needed.  This is one area.

It's an irregular area, so I built the entire fence on the bench and transferred it.

I like the result, but the assembly process is awkward.  For as much of this as you plan to do, I think I'd make a jig with small holes spaced 8 scale feet apart for the fence posts and put a piece of brass wire in each hole, and then solder longer pieces of wire across them to make the frame.  Then, glue on the fabric.

Another option might be the Atlas Hairpin Fence.

This doesn't look right to me for an industrial fence, but if you were to cut the loops off the top it wouldn't be bad.  On ther other hand, it's only about half an inch tall.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern California
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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Monday, November 23, 2015 12:41 PM

I use aluminum screen for fence. Stays rigid. No stretching needed. Just cut it diagonally.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, November 23, 2015 9:14 AM

 

Do a eBay “chain link fence” search for your scale.  I bought mine that way.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by Steven S on Monday, November 23, 2015 7:55 AM

You can scratch build your own fences by using brass wire and tulle.  It helps to have a small tip for your soldering iron and a small jeweler's file to clean up the solder blobs. 

MR once did an article about prototype fences back in the '90s(?).  They had drawings and dimensions for various types of industrial fences and gates.   If someone has the DVD collection, maybe they can search for the article.  Note that the end posts and corner posts are usually thicker than the vertical posts between them.

Here are some tests I did based on that article.

 

This gate was designed to hang from a brass I-beam.

 

Steve S

 

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, November 23, 2015 7:49 AM

One of the best chain link fence kits that I have ever seen and built was/is by Alloy Forms. Unfortunately..they still make the kit for 200 HO scale feet of fence, with gates....But they no longer have the mesh material they used to have in the kits....It was the same style looking mesh like the Walthers...but it was real Aluminum mesh, that was already trimmed in height and width, you just cut the length,you wanted, it came in 50scale foot lengths....no stretching, pulling to get even. You just had to glue it. The fence post were brass. I have two of the kits, that I started building a 500+ scale foot fence and ordered directly from SS ltd. two more kits and that's how I found out, that they changed the chain link material.....big time bummer..for me anyway! I did not use the posts in the kits, I made my own, soldered together, out 1/16 posts and 1/32 rails with brass rod from K&S, the hard brass. I have not made up my mind yet as to what material I am going to use. I may use the Walthers material over the brass frame...I can't quit now, I have almost all the brass fence made, but I made it so it is removable, just stick in holes in the Homasote base of my layout. I will be posting pic's of it with the transload kit bash that I'm still working on the whole area in WPF, hopefully soon.

I was really disappointed though about that Alloy Forms material being discontinued. The stuff they have in the kit now, is even smaller size than the Walthers and a bright silver color, that don't look right unless you paint it and even with using an air brush, there's a big chance of clogging the mesh.....I don't know....I'm going to give it a try...got 46.00 invested in it.

http://scale-structures.com/ss4128

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, November 23, 2015 7:16 AM

Are there any MR articles on this topic?  I too want to put similar fencework on my layout around some industrial areas.  Some object to fences, but you are smart to add them since they provide an additional level of detail.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, November 23, 2015 7:12 AM

The material LION refers to is tulle:

Tulle (English pronunciation: /tuːl/ TOOL) is a lightweight, very fine netting, which is often starched. It can be made of various fibres, including silk, nylon, and rayon. Tulle is most commonly used for veils, gowns (particularly wedding gowns), and ballet tutus.

Ballet tutus???Cool

If you choose another route, I have had nice results with the Walthers chain link fence, which comes with its own tulle.

Instead of the supplied soft iron wire (yes, iron) I used hard brass wire for the top and bottom rail.

 

A light spray of aluminum paint and you have a new looking fence. I thought stringing the barbed wire would be too time consuming.

I looked at several offerings and bought samples from other manufacturers and even some etched brass stuff but it didn't have the look that the Walthers had.

Maybe some other folks have better suggestions but this works for me.

{edit} I had the best luck by working on a pine board covered in waxed paper then taped the top and bottom pipes parallel and spaced out the posts then glued them in with ACC. You can have a white paper template with the post spacing underneath. Now flip the assembly over so your rails are up and using push-pins s-t-r-e-t-c-h the tulle over the posts and rails (not too tight) then dab ACC at strategic points along the top and bottom. Once cured, trim the excess then give a light coat of paint, aluminum for new fence or shades of gray for older, or green for vinyl coated stuff (modern)

It would be very difficult to try to assemble in place. I only drilled out for every second or third post and cut the others short. If your fence goes up a hillside you would probably want to make a paper contour of the terrain so you keep tour posts vertical and bend your rails to conform then stretch shorter lengths of fabric to keep it taught. Don't forget corner bracing, either diagonal or an additional horizontal bar between the top and bottom rails between two posts.

More here:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/229689/2566111.aspx

 

 If you have access to back issues there was an article in the September, 1980 MR about chain link fence.

 

Good Luck, Ed

(If you make this fence then color it would that make you a tulle and dye maker?)

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, November 23, 2015 6:58 AM

Go to Walmart or to fabric store, buy wedding veil fabric (has name LION knows it not). Whil there get som LONG straight pins. Use pins for posts. Get some thin decrative wire (same isle) to tie to the tops of the pins and then carefully glue the fabric net to the pins.

Here is attempt by LION. Poor fence is falling over, looks like LION needs more practice with this method, but, at least in Brooklyn, it looks quite prototypical.

Looks like train of LION came from Chernoble. Him will have to paint the interior.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
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Need to fence in an oil terminal - what do you recommend?
Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, November 23, 2015 5:16 AM

Hi,

I put together a medium size HO oil terminal facility - circa 1950s.  It roughly measures about 10 "real feet" around the perimeter to be fenced.  In looking at Ebay selections and 2012 Walthers catalog, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the possibilities.

What I'm looking for is something that makes sense for the facility and time period, and is relatively easy to install and will hold up and stand the test of time.   Price is of secondary consideration. 

Your thoughts???

Thank you,

MOBILman44

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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