Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Have never been all that impressed with the quality of Athearn locomotives. Had a 2-8-2 Mike and two RS3s. The Mike ran smoothly but one side rod buckled 2 or 3 times - badly. The RS3s had contact problems from the get-go and ran poorly. I picked up some Miniatronics pickup wires but haven't gotten around to installing them yet.
Been MUCH happier with Atlas, Intermountain, Proto 2000, Stewart, and Walthers for my early diesels.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
zstripe richhotrain I think that a lot of these "problem" threads could be resolved more quickly if only better investigative and reporting techniques would be implemented. Rich Rich, Ya' tink so'........?? Take Care! Frank
richhotrain I think that a lot of these "problem" threads could be resolved more quickly if only better investigative and reporting techniques would be implemented. Rich
Rich,
Ya' tink so'........??
Take Care!
Frank
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainI think that a lot of these "problem" threads could be resolved more quickly if only better investigative and reporting techniques would be implemented. Rich
I agree Rich. An inexpensive meter would have found the problem with just a little poking around.
Athearn's headlight housing is a very sophisticated affair
Engine crews used to keep their coffee pots near the lamp to keep it warm!
Ed
Weird thread. It starts out as with a stalling loco with perhaps gummed up lubricant and ends up with short caused by a headlight lamp.
I think that a lot of these "problem" threads could be resolved more quickly if only better investigative and reporting techniques would be implemented.
Fieryturbo,
You never did answer the questions posted about what the headlight was doing while this was going on....It's quite possible that the bulb was bad from the git-go...(been there, done that!) creating a direct short. Did You ever drop a table lamp, with a incandesant bulb in it, have the bulb break and for a couple seconds the bulb is still lit, but starts to burn/fire before circuit breaker trips?? Almost the same principle...You cannot reset the circuit breaker to have it stay on, with the defective bulb still in the circuit. Some will weld themselves together, when that happens, even without, breaking the glass, resulting in a dead short AC or DC. I even had a Miniatronics 12v bulb, right out of a package of 20, would be very dimly lit, while others in same circuit were bright, the dimly lit one was getting extremely hot, before it tripped the circuit breaker. I'll admit that is the first time, I ever got a bad bulb from Miniatronics, especially what they cost, but anything is possible.
Glad You got it going!
zstripeThat 's one of the things I posted in the beginning....it is not unusual to have a cracked axle gear that is brand new right out of the box...
I didn't mean to duplicate your advice, Frank! Sorry if I messed it...
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub fieryturbo Whatever is going on, the F7 suddenly just shorts the track and the power pack circuit breaker is tripped. If it really is a short, have you checked each wheelset to ensure it's in gauge and the plastic gear isn't cracked? If the half axles come into contact with each other inside the gear (which can happen either if they were shoved too close together during assemble, or if the gear is loose due to a crack), they will cause a direct short.
fieryturbo Whatever is going on, the F7 suddenly just shorts the track and the power pack circuit breaker is tripped.
If it really is a short, have you checked each wheelset to ensure it's in gauge and the plastic gear isn't cracked? If the half axles come into contact with each other inside the gear (which can happen either if they were shoved too close together during assemble, or if the gear is loose due to a crack), they will cause a direct short.
Wp8thsub,
That 's one of the things I posted in the beginning....it is not unusual to have a cracked axle gear that is brand new right out of the box....I've had one run a little in forward and when switched to reverse....dead short. It was very hard to detect...did not make noise, no clicking or such. Wheels were all in gauge. I did a continuity test on each wheel set and that's how I found it. Just enough of the axle in the gear was touching the other, also the wheel axle was to far in the gear, just on one side, so the gear was not aligned with the others, but in gauge. I didn't send in or have them fix it....I just replace all the axle gear's myself.
That is about the only thing I can think of on that engine He has, that would do what He is describing.
If He would turn the lites off and look real close at the wheels, He sure to see a blue spark......mine did!
fieryturboWhatever is going on, the F7 suddenly just shorts the track and the power pack circuit breaker is tripped.
As someone mentioned, there are some connections that can come loose in an Athearn "blue box" engine. There are two slide-on connections, one on each 'tower' coming up from the trucks. Those slide-ons can be loose, and could slide far enough to cause them to come in contact with the sidewall of the interior frame, causing a short. I would think this would be more likely if you're running it around and around a circle, so centrifigual force is pushing it towards the outside.
I tried this last night. Whatever is going on, the F7 suddenly just shorts the track and the power pack circuit breaker is tripped.
I called Athearn and talked to Dave. He took me through inspecting all the points on the loco (obviously with shell removed) and everything looked fine. He has no idea what's wrong, and had me send pictures. We'll see what happens, he's going to call me back this afternoon after he looks at them.
zstripe fieryturbo My suspicion is that the Athearn unit is pulling so much current that it trips the circuit breaker in the DC power pack. When the circuit breaker closes again, the unit will run for a brief second until it trip the breaker again. Now this is the part above that You need to have the shell off to really be able to find out what is going on....When engine stops, touch motor, is it very warm/hot, drive line not binding, so forth and so on.....otherwise You are only guessing. Were You able to run it in both directions and same thing happen? Even if I were to tell You that You had a short...You would still have to take the shell off to fix it..... Can You still send it in for repair/replacement? That's what You may have to do. Could have a bad motor...but without testing it, You won't know...there is no magic fix. You really ought to try running two at once, like I suggested in My other post......If it is indeed a short/bad motor, they both will stop running. A MRC 1300 has enough power to run two engines....if it does not.... that is a key telling You that engine is drawing way too much current and is shutting the system down, once it gets warm. Drive line binding, will also cause the motor to overwork and get warm, draw too much current resulting in system shutting down. Good Luck! Frank
fieryturbo My suspicion is that the Athearn unit is pulling so much current that it trips the circuit breaker in the DC power pack. When the circuit breaker closes again, the unit will run for a brief second until it trip the breaker again.
Now this is the part above that You need to have the shell off to really be able to find out what is going on....When engine stops, touch motor, is it very warm/hot, drive line not binding, so forth and so on.....otherwise You are only guessing. Were You able to run it in both directions and same thing happen? Even if I were to tell You that You had a short...You would still have to take the shell off to fix it..... Can You still send it in for repair/replacement? That's what You may have to do. Could have a bad motor...but without testing it, You won't know...there is no magic fix.
You really ought to try running two at once, like I suggested in My other post......If it is indeed a short/bad motor, they both will stop running. A MRC 1300 has enough power to run two engines....if it does not.... that is a key telling You that engine is drawing way too much current and is shutting the system down, once it gets warm.
Drive line binding, will also cause the motor to overwork and get warm, draw too much current resulting in system shutting down.
Good Luck!
I'll try this tonight.
One very common issue with Athearn RTR is a buildup of blackener and/or paint in the axle bearing slots, which will prevent the bearings from making electrical contact with the bearing plate. The result will often be the type of jerky operation you describe. Scrape the inside surfaces of the bearing slots down to bare metal, and ensure the bearings themselves are clean and free of lubrication or other gunk that would interfere with contact.
fieryturboMy suspicion is that the Athearn unit is pulling so much current that it trips the circuit breaker in the DC power pack. When the circuit breaker closes again, the unit will run for a brief second until it trip the breaker again.
AThearn locos can have power pickup problems - I have two RS3's, one worked fine out fo the box, the other I had to solder an additional set of pickup wires on the side of the trucks that do not have wires already before it would pick up power reliably. Even now it's less than steller, I need to either file out some of the plastic in the truck so the square bushings ride solidly on the metal part of the truck, or solder fine wire right to the bushings for power pickup.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
fieryturboMy suspicion is that the Athearn unit is pulling so much current that it trips the circuit breaker in the DC power pack. When the circuit breaker closes again, the unit will run for a brief second until it trip the breaker again. My question is, why would this be happening?
Sounds like you have a short someplace.
fieryturboI then removed the DC loco and DC power pack from the track, and tested the same ring of track with my DCC command station and the 3 DCC locos. These all ran fine.
The fact that the locos ran fine with DCC is not relevant to the issue, other than to prove that your track seems okay. But you already knew that because you had run the other engines on DC.
First of all, thanks everyone for trying to help! However, I feel like people are only reading the last few posts in this thread when they reply. Let me reiterate:
Last night, I had the DC power pack attached to the circle of track. I was initially testing the GP30 after a lubrication and adding Kadee couplers. Everything ran fine.
I then decided to try out the new Athearn A/B set I got. The first thing I noticed was the drag on the B unit. So I took it off the track. I then tested the F7A. It seemed to run fine. I let it run at slow and fast speeds for a few iterations around the ring. It seemed fine. I then added the B unit, and let it run for about 5-7 minutes at a medium speed around the track, then it suddenly just stopped dead. It then started up again. Then stopped. Then started up again for a second and stopped, and wouldn't move after that. No headlight, nothing. I removed it from the track, checked th ebottom to see if somehow an obstruction got in there, no sign of anything. (the table was empty and wiped down except for the track anyway) I removed the Athearn F7 and put the Bachmann Spectrum GP30 back on the track - it ran smooth, with no problems. I removed the GP30 and tested the Trainline GP9. It also ran fine. I put the Athearn unit back on the track - nothing, completely dead.
I then removed the DC loco and DC power pack from the track, and tested the same ring of track with my DCC command station and the 3 DCC locos. These all ran fine.
So I hope this clarifies things.
My suspicion is that the Athearn unit is pulling so much current that it trips the circuit breaker in the DC power pack. When the circuit breaker closes again, the unit will run for a brief second until it trip the breaker again.
My question is, why would this be happening?
Jim
fieryturbo I didn't test this loco with DCC, I tested the track and another DCC loco with DCC, just to prove the track is not dirty or faulty in any way.
I didn't test this loco with DCC, I tested the track and another DCC loco with DCC, just to prove the track is not dirty or faulty in any way.
Do You have another DC loco that You can push/pull around the same track the one that runs erratic???? I say this because, I would like to know if the one You are having trouble with is doing it because of a short or bad pick-up connections....if they both stop..You know its a short.....if the one that works is trying to move the one that is stopped...it more than likely is a pick-up issue or binding issue. That engine should also have a front headlight...what is it doing while You are trying to run it? I gather You don't want to take the shell off....so there really is not much to tell You...ecept trying what I suggested. Your power pack should have an internal circuit breaker that trips for a short and returns to normal once short is removed, so don't worry about messing it up.
fieryturboIt's specifically this model (ath76101) http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Athearn-HO-F7A-B-UP-p/ath-76101.htm
zstripe Sounds to Me, that You have oxidation build up on Your track
Sounds to Me, that You have oxidation build up on Your track
After this happened a few times, I cleaned the track with a scotch brite, and then with isopropyl. This is the only loco with this issue.
I then disconnected the DC power pack and hooked my DCC box to the same circle and tested it. No problem with my 3 DCC locomotives, including my E8 which really hates that radius.
fieryturboIf I let the power pack and loco sit turned off,, then put it back on the track for awhile, it wakes up, but then does that stalling thing again a moment or two later.
Sounds to Me, that You have oxidation build up on Your track and loco wheels and engine still new, is not even broken in yet, to even have the gear lube work. Clean all Your track with 91% alcohol and engine wheels and try to run it without the B unit, to get some warm-up time. Don't concern Yourself with the dummy yet. When You get some time You can remove the gears or leave them on the dummy, so it will roll better. Is this the same engine that You had another thread with questions about it running?
You can even try running together with Your engine that You say run's ok....pushing/ pulling, it doesn't matter. If both engines stop working, You know it's a short, when it stops running, cause they both won't work. Have to have a referance point, before much advice can be given...otherwise Your pulling at straws.
Good Luck!!
Just so anyone can click the link...
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Athearn-HO-F7A-B-UP-p/ath-76101.htm
What is the Road Name and Athearn part number? with that you can check the Athearn site and get some idea (maybe) of when it was produced.
You did not mention, but should we assume it is DC not DCC?
One quick thing to check on the A unit is to remove the shell. The typical setup of a DC RTR model is to run the power from the trucks up to an L shaped clip on the top of the gear tower. From there it is picked up by a spring clip that is attched to the top of the motor. If the clip is not makng good contact with the L brackets, that could be the cause of the start-stop. (This may be changed on more recent production.) A sure cure is to solder a wire from the L brackets to the clip on top of the motor and get rid of the spring clip entirely.
ON the B unit, turn it upside down. ON the trucks, there usually is a plastic cover over the gears. Carefully remove this and see if there is a lot of gunked up grease present. Cleaning this could meke it roll better. That being said, it may just need a couple of hours running to break in the gears. Put it behind another loco and set it on it way for a couple hours.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
So my brand new A/B pair of Athearn locomotives have problems. When I run the A unit, it is starting and stopping.the B unit has unused gears in the trucks, and has a lot of drag, I tap it, and it won't even roll 8 inches before stopping.
I just bought it at Trainfest, but it now appears to be discontinued on Athearn's site. I am really bummed. The instruction sheet is (C)2014 Horizon Hobby, so how long could this possibly have been sitting to gum up the lubricant?
If I let the power pack and loco sit turned off,, then put it back on the track for awhile, it wakes up, but then does that stalling thing again a moment or two later.
I'm afraid of doing anything to void the warranty, so I haven't lubricated it.
I am testing my Bachmann GP30 on the same 18" circle of test track, and it runs just fine, fast or slow. What could be wrong?