Question about the Athearn Challenger's sound system

[Anonymous]

What do you guys who own this model think of the sound? Does it sound anything like the video of the preproduction model (just search challenger up in the trains.com search bar and you should still be able to find it)? If it does, I don't think it sounds that bad. I've heard a few complaints about it though......

Jonathon[8D]

[Anonymous]

It's my understanding the sound system for this model is the same as for BLI, which is a QSI product. The fact that Broadway seems to be one of the top producers at this time for sound equipped locos should mean that people appear happy with the product. I have a BLI Hudson. Does it sound like the real thing? I was never around the real thing. Does it sound like a model or a real steam loco? Mine sounds like a model. However, it sounds more like a real steam loco then the rest of my un-sound equipped steam locos do. Do I like mine? YEPers!

[cacole]

The Athearn Challenger's sound system is made by Model Rectifier, and is nowhere near as good as a QSI system. While it's better than no sound at all, it is not up to the same quality as a QSI system. If you have ever heard any of Model Rectifier's sound decoders compared to a QSI system, you would immediately realize that there is a significant difference.

[Anonymous]

Cacole is likely right, so I stand corrected! I was confused and thinking of the Lionel Challeger which I believe uses the QSI sound system. I no nothing of the Athearn/MRC sound system.

[Paul3]

Yes, the Athearn sound board is made by MRC. It has one interesting feature. When you hit one of hte functions, a conductor's voice says, "All aboad!" Now, who is he talking to? The freight? (shakes head)

Also, a fellow club member tried two different Athearn Challengers on our Digitrax Chief system. Now while it would work under address 03, it would not program at all (and we even have the Tony's Train eXchage "Power Pax") and the directions are as clear as mud. Both engines were returned.

So far, I've been distinctly unimpressed with the Athearn Challenger.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

sounds good though[:D]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses.

But, does the sound system sound anything like the sound on the preproduction model that was in the video on trains.com a while ago?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Thanks for the responses.

But, does the sound system sound anything like the sound on the preproduction model that was in the video on trains.com a while ago?

Yes it sounds exactly like the video does. I got mine 2 days ago. All in all it's a highly detailed engine, but the sound is a step below QSI's system. Sounds are a bit "Fuzzy" and I only am able to run it in DC mode since I don't have DCC. Chuff rate can be adjusted higher or lower per revolution of the wheels and the main volume can be adjusted, but thats it. I was hoping to adjust the volumes separately like my BLI 4-8-4 QSI system but this cannot be done.

The wireless remote is only good for activating sounds...stay near your power pack to run the loco though. Sometimes the engine does not respond to wireless remote commands if blocked by scenery or the remote is held below the level of the layout...as long as you think of it like a TV remote and "aim" it at the engine it works ok.

Personally I would have rather not had the wireless remote feature in exchange for the QSI system.

Has anyone replaced the sound decoder with the Digitrax #3985 challenger decoder yet? is it difficult? Would it still operate in dual mode DC/DCC?????

[mecovey]

I posted the following over on the layout forum as well . I wnted to pick the brains of the folks over here in addition hoping to get a quick response...

I bought 2 of the Challengers and I am really impressed with the appearance, pulling ability and sound, however I'm having considerable difficulty with the DCC portion. I sent the following e-mail yesterday to Athearn and hope to get it resolved:

Dear sir,
I have recently purchased 2 Athearn Challengers and I am having difficulty programming them to operate on my DCC system. I have a Digitrax Chief with a DSC100 command station (which has a booster from Tony's Train Exchange to boost the programming signal from the command station) and I use a DT 400 as my throttle.

I placed the engine on my isolated programming track, pressed PROG on the DT400, toggled PROG to Pg mode, pressed the Right Throttle to toggle to 4 digit addressing, entered "600" via the keypad and pressed enter.

According to the Digitrax manual, I was to get AD4=Owr followed by a blinking square during programming. I was then to get the message Ad4on?=Y and after pressing Y on the key pad CV 29 would be set to 4 digit addressing and after pressing exit the new address would be available.
What actually happened is, the blinking square flashes briefly (less that a second) and the message Ad4on?=Y does not appear. Instead I get a message that says No Pg and then displays the address I had tried to enter. after attempting to program this decoder several times without success, I tried to select it with the factory default setting of 03. Neither 03 nor any other address gets a response from the engine.

- Power is on as the lights in the number board come on but there is no other sound or motion.
- I used the above identical procedure to program 2 Broadway Limited Import engines without problems.

Is there a way to restore the factory default settings such as employed by Broadway Limited? I really like the engine but it's useless to me in its current state. Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.


Sincerely,

Michael Covey
[e-mail]


I fired up the other challenger last night and put it on the progamming track to see if I could read the CVs. Whether in Pg, Pd or Ph mode I received the FAIL message after the system attempted to read the settings. Considering the consequences of trying to change the address on the first engine, I didn't try to change anything on this one. I coupled up to a Tony's Clean Machine and began to clean track. I ran steadily for about an hour with all systems functioning correctly and then suddenly lost control of the engine. Although the DT 400 still showed it was active, I was not able to affect any change in speed, direction or sound.

Now I don't know what to do....any ideas?

Michael

[mecovey]

As a follow up, I put the 2nd engine back on the rails this morning and it ran and sounded fine. Some of the guys on the other forum seem to think the problem is typical of the MRC decoder.

[mecovey]

I notice there is considerable activity in the poll regarding replacement of the MRC board. What do you think?

[Anonymous]

Well, after watching the video of the preproduction unit again, I have to say it sounds fine. I haven't experienced a BLI loco with QSI sound, so maybe my "un-spolied ears"[;)] think differently.

[mecovey]

I talked to a friend of mine last night who bought his Athearn Challenger the same time I did and his decoder took the program change without difficulty. Arrrrrgh! Anybody else having problems getting the thing programmed?

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Minuteman
Has anyone replaced the sound decoder with the Digitrax #3985 challenger decoder yet? is it difficult? Would it still operate in dual mode DC/DCC?????

You mean the Soundtraxx DSD-150? There are only 11 wires so it couldn't be that hard to install. No, if you replace the dual mode control unit with a DCC control unit, it would not work with DC.

If your going to go to the trouble and expense of replacing the unit, why not wait for the next generation Soundtraxx? Does Phoenix make a Challenger sound unit? That would work with DC.

[Anonymous]

There will be a second run of 3985 first half of 2005.
Perhaps Athearn/Horizon will get it right if they listen.

[mecovey]

I gotta tell you - I ordered these engines from FirstHobby.Com in Decatur, Illinois. What a class act! I sent them an e-mail and copied them on the e-mail I sent to Athearn (see Above). Would you believe they called Athearn on my behalf to see if anyone else had any problems with the decoders (so far nobody has) and gave me some suggestions on what to do next.
I would really recommend them.

[Anonymous]

It's still better than we all had in the past. Remember the noisy wheels going round & round. That was it a few years ago. Each model gets a little better.

[mecovey]

I indicated in my post on 11/27/04 that I had contacted Athearn about the problems with this engine(s). Having bought and been satisfied with Athearn products for years I assumed they would want to know if there was a problem with their product and would assist in the resolution of any defect. I received an e-mail today from Athearn and both their "memo" and my response appear below:

-----Original Message-----
From: Athearn Help [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 4:59 PM
To: Michael Covey
Subject: RE: Athearn Challenger


Michael,
We recommend that you consult with Digitrax and the manufacturer of the decoder, MRC (rrtech@modelrectifier) about these questions since we cannot assist you.

Sincerely,

Athearn Trains

And my response:

Gentlemen,
Frankly, I was hoping for a little better response than a "pass the buck" one sentence memo. The boxes that the engines came in say Athearn NOT Digitrax or MRC. I would suggest you read the posts that are beginning to pile up on the various forums at Trains.Com regarding this engine and the attendant problems. Digitrax is not the problem as my e-mail clearly explained that following the instructions in the Digitrax manual, the Broadway Limited Engines and the Spectrum engine programmed fine. At any rate, I will be downloading the warranty card from your web site (which was not included in the box) and returning at least one of the engines.
I will expect a much better response than you have provided so far.

Sincerely,
Michael Covey

Looks like a case of caveat emptor - I don't know which I'm most disappointed in... a company I had come to respect and appreciate blowing off the problem or a really neat engine that turned out to be a dud. Hopefully, it's just a misunderstanding and thankfully I paid by credit card but I expected a lot more from both the engine and the company.

[twhite]

Well, Jonathan, don't drop over and play dead, but after all my bitching and whining about everyone and their Aunt Ethel coming out with still MORE UP Challengers, I bit the bullet and bought the Genesis a couple of days ago (Rio Grande #3802), and as an owner of several BLI locos, I find the Genesis sound to be pretty good (I run only DC). I'm having a little trouble with getting the receiver to work in sync with my throttle control, and I wi***hat Athearn had set the drivers out of sync instead of in line, but oh my, is it a smooth running, powerful loco. Now if I could just find an excuse to hang the cross-compound pumps on the FRONT of the boiler so it would look like a REAL articulated--ha, ha. Seriously, it's a honey of a locomotive. Some people have complained about the weird whistle, but when the prototype was out here in Sacramento some years back for Railfair, I thought it had a weird whistle, anyway.
Tom

[milwaukeesteam]

Broadway Limited is the only company in my book that understands the HO steam locomotive customer of today. Let's face it, the MR manufacturers are attempting to appeal to model railroaders through advancements in sight, sound and lighting technology. Only one, in my opinion, addresses the HO steam locomotive market with excellence....Broadway Limited.

I am an avid live steam chaser and model railroader. I've traveled with and inside the cab of such locomotives as N&W 611, UP844 / 3985t, Milw 261, etc. Now, I'm investing in high-end steam locomotives with the expectation of real, accurate sound recordings and playback. Together, we should expect all manufacturers to be students of the business if we're expected to pay in excess of $250 per locomotive (mid to upper end price points).

I own 2 Lionel Challengers (the whistle is wrong, it's too heavy but I know the remedy and the detail is great). I wrote / called Lionel with my dissapointment in their whistle & weight (pulling power). The response was apathetic. I paid over $500 for each locomotive in a single purchase to boot......Now, we have the Athearn sound issue....I will guess that both Lionel and Athearn will provide most of us the same level of service = "next to nothing" as it' s now our problem. In my opinion they both missed the real market for authentic steam operation in HO form and frankly they don't care.

I do own 6 BLI locomotives and have no issues with their sound accuracy, performance and locomotive detail. They even corrected the issues with their first edition Hudson and allowed customers to exchange for the updated model at a reasonable cost. Talking with them "live" is also a fine experience. The bottom line = BLI knows the market and aligns the final product with our expectations!!!!