Thanks... Some collector actually took the shells from me.
The 6464 cars fall into that vague area called "semi-scale"; which can mean cars that are close-to-scale (like a car whose height and width are scale, but that are shorter than prototype) or cars that are undersized, but are closer to a scale model than a tinplate toy in detailing. The latter, sometimes called "scale detailed", is probably where these cars would fit. The cars are bigger than O-27 cars (which are around 1:64 scale size) but smaller than full 1:48 models would be. They're made to go with Lionels "semi-scale" engines like the 746 Berkshire, 2046-2056 Hudson, the GG-1, etc.
Interestingly, several of Lionel's 1950's diesels are full scale size (F3, GM switcher, FM Trainmaster etc.) but Lionel at that time didn't make full scale cars.
dknelson Stripping the shells? Ouch. I can hear the toy train guys weep even as I write this. The 6464 boxcar series cannot, as noted above, be counted among the examples of Lionel offering actual scale sized merchandise (the famous NYC Hudson, the Pennsy 0-6-0, the EMD F3, the NYC caboose from the 1940s, and a few other examples). But they were beautiful, and "mostly" accurate, renditions of colorful boxcar paint schemes and looked great when hauled by Lionel's nicer looking locomotives, such as the Berkshire, the Trainmaster, the F3, and a few others. I am pretty sure the 6464s were offered in the "O" line for Lionel, not O-27. Their O-27 boxcars, such as the Baby Ruth candybar boxcar, were considerably smaller than the 6464s. OK: They were toys. But they were among the nicest and choicest toys. Dave Nelson
Stripping the shells? Ouch. I can hear the toy train guys weep even as I write this. The 6464 boxcar series cannot, as noted above, be counted among the examples of Lionel offering actual scale sized merchandise (the famous NYC Hudson, the Pennsy 0-6-0, the EMD F3, the NYC caboose from the 1940s, and a few other examples). But they were beautiful, and "mostly" accurate, renditions of colorful boxcar paint schemes and looked great when hauled by Lionel's nicer looking locomotives, such as the Berkshire, the Trainmaster, the F3, and a few others.
I am pretty sure the 6464s were offered in the "O" line for Lionel, not O-27. Their O-27 boxcars, such as the Baby Ruth candybar boxcar, were considerably smaller than the 6464s. OK: They were toys. But they were among the nicest and choicest toys.
Dave Nelson
Just to make this clear, he had stripped the shells, which were all that was left, not me. That's why I was looking to convert them to scale...
You will find a welcoming community over in the Classic Toy Trains area.
Bob Keller
My dad loved his Lionel, and I keep his collectiion for sentimental reasons. He would have been 106 last year. In the days when these cars were designed, over 60 years ago, a lot of compromises were accepted more readily than they are today, and the level of broadly available knowledge was far lower than today. But the question was how they stack up against modern standards. I hope I didn't sound too harsh.
Tom
Thanks for the info. My grandfather had some he started to modify, basically stripped shells when I got them, and I was looking at possibly modifying them for my own use.
I just measured one. If you consider the carbody length (OL) of a typical 1937 AAR boxcar, that is 41'9". With that in mind, the scale equivalent of this car's length is not O scale (1/4" to the foot) or S scale (3/16" to the foot), but approximately .221557 inches to the foot.
The correct prototype width would be approximately 10'0", depending where you measure it, and the correct prototype height would be about 14'6".
In O scale this car measures 38'0" long, 8'6" wide, and 13'0" tall. Too small in all dimensions.
In S, it is 49'4" long, 11'4" wide, and 17'4" tall. Too big in all dimensions.
In short, it follows no generally recognized conventional modeling scale, and probably has no actual prototype in the first place.
By modern standards, the detail level is gross, and I'm being charitable. OTOH, these were always marketed as toys, and were never intended to be scale models.
P.S. If anybody is infuriated by facts, I'd call that a personal problem. If Lionel equipment satisfies an individual's notion of "model railroading", then I'm not interested in interfering with whatever makes that person's own personal boat float. It's his hobby --- not mine.
(edited)
I think you will get a better answer by going to the top of this page, click on Trains.com then on Classic Toy Trains. More Lionel folks there.
I had several of them, but they did not surive our house fire. I didn't have "collection insurance" on them, so could only claim the original $5.95 price. Found some of mine were worth well over $100. Sigh! There are a few well over that.
I think you will find they are short, in order to take the 027 curves
Good luck,
Richard
How detailed were the old Lionel 6464 boxcars in comparison to modern models of a 40' boxcar?