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A question for the old timers.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, September 18, 2015 3:31 PM

rrebell:

Interesting that the TruScale man would denigrate his own products.  If the rail wasn't brass Code 100, I'd love to have some of his old switches.  I liked the closed frogs.  They didn't operate exactly the same way that a prototype closed-frog turnout works, but they worked well and were as close as you could get to the type of turnout used on a lot of major lines.

Tom

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Posted by Autonerd on Friday, September 18, 2015 1:10 PM

hon30critter

I find it very interesting to learn how things were done 'back in the day'.

Dave, if by some chance you make it to Los Angeles, CA on a Sunday or a Tuesday in the next few months, come by the Pasadena Model Railroad Club and check out our soon-to-be-replaced analog control system. Ten cabs, block control with lockout, pre-set routing patches at the ends of the railroad, and it's all done with relays. The only computer that I know of is in storage under the layout. One of the components we rely on was designed for a B-17 bomber. We're going to convert to DCC after our Fall open house in November. It'll be good to modernize, we're long overdue, but the old system is pretty darn cool to see in action (although a bear to fix when it goes wrong).

Aaron

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, September 18, 2015 12:34 PM

zstripe
I didn't have that problem with the ties or much derailments for that matter.

Frank I  agree..I pushed myself back in the 60s  to have derailment free operation and operation nights on the Columbus HO club's layout proved I could easily attain that goal even with correctly mounted X2F couplers and the newer plastic trucks with  RP25 wheels by Athearn. I must have spent $70-80.00 replacing old trucks on various brands of freight cars.

Even with brass track,locomotives with brass wheels one could have smooth and trouble free operation..

I would use that old fiber tie flex track today if it was still readily available..

Larry

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, September 18, 2015 10:51 AM

zstripe

 They were fiber ties, with holes pinched out for spikes, they were also cut every fourth tie on both sides staggered so You could bend them in a curve. They came in 25ft rolls from Atlas. They were made to go with Atlas code 100 brass track, that were sold in 99ft bundles. Spent many an evening hand spiking track on cork roadbed and in curves, I used Tru-Scale plain milled wood roadbed....spikes would go in without splitting the wood, without pre-drilling, thank God...LOL.

Had a fairly large three level layout built with all hand layed track. Started on it in 1955...I was 13 yrs. old....My Dad was not into trains... I learned on My own.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

Had the oppertunity once to talk to the original maker of Tru-scale, very interesting, he still had demand for his premade turnouts even though he stopped making very long ago, he called them crap and wondered why anyone would want them! I personally thought his stuff was well made for the time, guess he was refering to a comparison with todays premade.

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 18, 2015 9:24 AM

SouthPenn

 

 
mobilman44

Yup, Atlas fibre tie strips.............  One major problem, they absorbed humidity like a sponge, and any use of glue/water mix for ballast adhesion was often a problem.

 

 

 

Maybe the humidity/tie strips is the reason I remember having a lot more connection problems and derailments back then. Our trains were in the basement.

South Penn

 

I didn't have that problem with the ties or much derailments for that matter. My parents basement was finished with Heat/AC, the layout was in the furnace/laundry room which was also temp. controlled.

Found another pic' I had of part of the layout...not the greatest, but better than the other...camera was not that great then. You can see in the fore-ground the Shinohara brass turn out and brass track. Also it is pretty blurry, but that Ulrich tractor trailer on the hill, has two Athearn infamous rubber band drive motors in the trailer...LOL.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:59 AM

zstripe

 

 
RR_Mel
RR_Mel wrote the following post an hour ago: I can take us back a bit further to 1945 with my first train which was Lionel O27 three rail. 

 

Mel,

LOL,LOL....I hated 027 Lionel and My parents new it. The only thing I liked was the uncoupling feature. My 1947 Christmas gift was a Gilbert American Flyer S- scale, with a 4-6-2 with smoke. I just don't talk much about My flyer days. Got the HO bug in 1950, with a Varney Train set for Christmas and was hooked.....where the hell did the time go? Bye!

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank 

 

My Dad wasn’t a train guy but he wanted me to be one.  To him Lionel was the ultimate and when I bought my first HO engine he hit the ceiling.  Every time we got into it his final statement was “that little crap will never stay on the track!”  He had taught me well by hand laying my O27 track so with the Atlas HO tie strip it was a piece of cake.  His teaching me to solder was a bonus for HO and using the tie strip I cut it up and made my own turnouts for years.  I never had a problem keeping “that little crap on the track!”  I’m sure the way over scale wheel flanges back then didn’t do me any harm keeping the little crap on the rails.
 
He never did any thing more than grunt a bit and shake his head sideways when he saw my “little crap running perfect”.
 
Those were good times learning HO!
 
Mel
 
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:31 AM

RR_Mel
RR_Mel wrote the following post an hour ago: I can take us back a bit further to 1945 with my first train which was Lionel O27 three rail. 

Mel,

LOL,LOL....I hated 027 Lionel and My parents new it. The only thing I liked was the uncoupling feature. My 1947 Christmas gift was a Gilbert American Flyer S- scale, with a 4-6-2 with smoke. I just don't talk much about My flyer days. Got the HO bug in 1950, with a Varney Train set for Christmas and was hooked.....where the hell did the time go? Bye!

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank 

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Posted by SouthPenn on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:10 AM

mobilman44

Yup, Atlas fibre tie strips.............  One major problem, they absorbed humidity like a sponge, and any use of glue/water mix for ballast adhesion was often a problem.

 

Maybe the humidity/tie strips is the reason I remember having a lot more connection problems and derailments back then. Our trains were in the basement.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, September 18, 2015 7:47 AM

Yup, Atlas fibre tie strips.............  One major problem, they absorbed humidity like a sponge, and any use of glue/water mix for ballast adhesion was often a problem.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Catt on Friday, September 18, 2015 7:13 AM

I have three unused boxes of those tie strips.If I decide to use them I figure a few coats of flat black will seal them.

Johnathan(Catt) Edwards 100 % Michigan Made
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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, September 18, 2015 7:10 AM

I can take us back a bit further to 1945 with my first train which was Lionel O27 three rail.  My Dad gave it to me for Christmas 1944, I have no idea where he got it, everything was rationed because of WWII.  There was no track available and my Dad wanted to set up a large dual track loop shelf type layout in our basement for me.
 
He got the machine shop where he worked to make a die of an O gauge rail.  It consisted of a solid metal bar of about 10” long by 2” x 1¼”, the machinist cut a grove down the center of the bar the width and depth of a Lionel rail.  He made a metal “T” section that would drop down in the slot.  MY Dad would cut up tin cans (food cans) to form several strips of tin about an inch and a quarter or so wide by 10” long inches long.  We would place the tin strips over the slot and drive the “T” into the slot with a hammer forming a U shaped rail.  We would trim the bottom edge leaving a slight flange and used carpet tacks to nail the rails in place.  We made “joiners from ½” wide strips of tin in the die then squeezed them enough to slide into the rails and solder them.  That’s how I learned to solder at the ripe old age of 8 by using a baseball bat sized soldering iron and solder dipped in acid to make a solid joint.
 
My Dad made a couple of wooden rail gauges or templates to keep the track in perfect alighment while nailing them in place.
 
I ended up with a sheet of 4’ x 8’ plywood on one end and a 4’ x 4’ sheet on the other end making a layout connected with two 12’ or so long 1” x 12” shelves down two walls forming a huge L in our basement.  I don’t remember ever having a Lionel Train derail on my basement layout.
 
I’ve been a model railroader ever since Christmas of 1944.   
 
Mel
 
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 18, 2015 6:49 AM

If anybody wants some fiber tie strips, a local hobby shop in my area found a roll in a box of used stuff they bought.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, September 18, 2015 5:57 AM

zstripe
did a three foot section at a time or less and pre-cut the tie strip, painted the cork roadbed with dark grey enamel paint, layed the tie strip on the painted cork and put a few staples in the tie strip, then poured the ballast right on the wet paint and ties. Then started spiking the track.

Gee,Frank, I think that might have been the way my Dad ballast track..My feeble minded memory stumbles and trips in that area even though I remember Atlas flex track and switches with fiber ties my dad used and they track was ballast and the yard was ballasted with cinder ballast..

Now I'm a' thinking the glue mixture method came with the plastic ties.

Larry

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Posted by farrellaa on Thursday, September 17, 2015 11:58 PM

Yes, it was called fiber tie strip and I too still have a roll of it. I bought  most of my rr track from America's Hobby Center in New York City. A brass turnout on fiber was about $1.25 and I put mine right on the plywood or pine board; didn't know about cork and probably couldn't afford it. This was in the 1950's and I was about 13 at the time. Don't miss that stuff!

   -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 17, 2015 11:29 PM

Hey guys!

Like a famous crooner sang, "Thanks for the memories...."!

I find it very interesting to learn how things were done 'back in the day'.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SouthPenn on Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:53 PM

Thanks for bringing back some great memories. I was about 8 when I started helping my Dad. We didn't have any roadbed or ballast that I remember. We spiked everything to pine boards that my Dad cut on a bandsaw. And we used brass rail. We used to clean the rail everytime we ran the trains. My job was to do inside the tunnels as my arms would fit inside them.

I don't think our ties were pre-cut. I remember learning how to use a pair of 'side cutters' and cutting the link between the ties at about every other tie. But only on the outside of the curves.

We used window screening to form the landscape and covered it with plaster. ( on a second layout we used paper mache )

I don't know where the switches came from but they looked just like the pre-DCC Shinohara switches that I use now. They were controlled by choke cables. ( I had no idea where the cables were from until I was 15 and started working on cars. ) 

Again, thanks for the memories.

South Penn

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Posted by G Paine on Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:36 PM

Funny thing, this week we just received another box of Atlas fiber ties in the original box at Boothbay Railway Village. The marked price was $1.00. It is in good shape, and we are going to put it on display on the history shelf.

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:44 PM

I am almost (but actually, not at all) ashamed to say that I still have a full roll of the Atlas fibre tie material like new in its original box.  It is true that water can make it warp and curl but it is also true that when the material was in common use, few if any used water based material anywhere on a layout, much less in laying track.   Shellac, baby!

Atlas also made built-up and kit turnouts using that same fibre tie material.  In fact Atlas also made a track gauge using the fibre material, and yes I still have a few of those around here somewhere.

I have some recollection that O scale guys used the Atlas fibre tie material to make picket fences back in the day.

Don't even get me started on Baker couplers ....

Dave Nelson

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:33 PM

Back then, I think it was TruScale who sold a sort of liquid ballast.  It was just gray paint with granules in it, so when it dried you had a granular surface.

Those were the days!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:29 PM

charlie9

How many of you tried to apply ballast to that fibre tie strip and found that it curled up when it got wet?

Charlie

 

 

I didn’t do ballast until the mid 60s and by then Atlas was using plastic ties so I didn’t experience water warping the fiber.  I used white glue and glued the tie strip to the roadbed then spiked the rails in place.  I don’t think the roadbed was cork, I just don’t remember.  I was thinking back and I think I was wrong on the cost of the rails, I think the rustable rails cost 5¢ and a brass rail was 9¢.
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:27 PM

charlie9

How many of you tried to apply ballast to that fibre tie strip and found that it curled up when it got wet?

Charlie

 

The fiber ties was common and there was ways to ballast the track without the ties curling. IIRC it had something to do with the white glue mixture and it was thicker  then the mixture we use today but,workable..

Larry

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:19 PM

I never used water.... I did a three foot section at a time or less and pre-cut the tie strip, painted the cork roadbed with dark grey enamel paint, layed the tie strip on the painted cork and put a few staples in the tie strip, then poured the ballast right on the wet paint and ties. Then started spiking the track. The paint took close to an hour to dry back then, more than enough time to spike a three foot section....once dry...it held everthing in place quite good. I even got many comments on how good it looked...I was shocked myself....I thought it would be messy. I used John's ballast back then...I believe that was made from cork...10cents a small box.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by charlie9 on Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:03 PM

How many of you tried to apply ballast to that fibre tie strip and found that it curled up when it got wet?

Charlie

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:47 PM

 They were fiber ties, with holes pinched out for spikes, they were also cut every fourth tie on both sides staggered so You could bend them in a curve. They came in 25ft rolls from Atlas. They were made to go with Atlas code 100 brass track, that were sold in 99ft bundles. Spent many an evening hand spiking track on cork roadbed and in curves, I used Tru-Scale plain milled wood roadbed....spikes would go in without splitting the wood, without pre-drilling, thank God...LOL.

Had a fairly large three level layout built with all hand layed track. Started on it in 1955...I was 13 yrs. old....My Dad was not into trains... I learned on My own.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:36 PM

Atlas Black Fiber Tie strip, $2.85 for a 25’ roll in 1952.  36” iron or maybe mild steel rails were 10¢ each.   Don’t remember how much a bag of spikes cost.  I hand laid all my track and made my turnouts.   Started out with HO scale at the ripe old age of 14 in El Paso Texas funded by my paper route.
 
My first power supply was a Lionel O27 transformer from my first train set when I was 8 and a 4 amp selenium rectifier, I was in hog heaven!  My first locomotive was a MDC 0-6-0 kit that cost $6.85 from H&H Hobby Shop on Pershing Drive owned and operated by John Henson and his wife.
 
Edit:  Like Frank says below brass rails were available but they cost 3¢ more than the rustble rails and on my 75¢ per week paper route the 3¢ more per rail was too much for me.  I think I can remember the price written on the box of tie strip at $1.25, not $2.85.   The tie strip wasn't cut for curves in 1952, that must have come later.  I used wire cutters to cut the tie strip for curves.
 
 
Mel
 
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:36 PM

Perhpas no Geritol needed maybe.  I'm 56 and my first mail order of track I received (1970's) had cardboard ties held on to the rail by what looked like staples.  I was surpised, and not pleasantly.  I do think it was the tail end of cardboard tie track, I never received any after that.  I didn't see the ties in a roll, but sounds similar.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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A question for the old timers.
Posted by SouthPenn on Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:58 PM

Way back when, my Dad and I laid all our track by hand. We used ties that came in a roll and looked like they were made of some type of card board. Does anyone else remember these or should I increase my daily Geritol intake?

South Penn

South Penn

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