You may wish to check out True Color Paints,one of the newer brands available it's a air brush ready paint that you normally need not add thinner. If after time it does you use Acetone for thinning and AB cleaning.
as for the debate on neoprene fuel line drying out keep in mind it's relatively cheap to replace.
I used fish tank oxygen pump tubing...will not turn brittle, for the flex-line...perfect size.
Anyone remember or have any brass Balboa's? I aquired three of them in the sixties....still run great!!!!
Take Care!
Frank
Ok, you guys have convinced me to paint my own Locomotives, and etc. I know I can pick up paint at Train Shows, are there any other Model paint sellers out there?
Thanks, agai for all your help.
Model airplane neoprene fuel line gets stiff and holds shape causing rough and noisy running....you want surgical tubing which is available in medical suppy houses or some pharmacies.
If you can get access to Allen Keller's Great Model Railroads volume 12, Roy Brakmann does a short clinic on using surgical tubing which works to perfection. Neoprene sometimes works if there is a straight connection from motor shaft to gear box.
HZ
Fuel line for model airplanes...Comes in a couple of Interior diameters - a foot of both will set you up just fine...Easy to get at the LHS (whats that??)
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
gmpullman Neoprene is so old school...
Neoprene is so old school...
True enough; but so are PFM models. And since I'm on the north side of forty, I guess I qualify, too. But thanks for the help: crowd sourcing is one of the greatest things about forums. I'll check it out.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
This is what I keep handy, silicone, I believe:
http://greenwayproducts.com/brass-builders-corner-trackside-specialties/flexdrive-tubing-clone/
I'm not sure of the sizes but as you can see in the photo above, it stretches quite a bit and grips the shafts very well. Maybe you can contact Greenway and they would know the specs.
Ed
Sine the brass loving gang is here in Congress assembled, one repair question for those of you who are familiar with PFM models (in this case, those old classics, the Ma& Pa 2-8-0 and Sierra 2-6-6-2): any recommendations on the gauge of replacement neoprene tubing for these two when the original tubing fails, and leaves you with an armature spinning at 200rpm and a motionless engine?
i have the can motors and NWSL gearboxes on the shelf for a complete rebuild- but for right now, I'm just looking for a quick fix.
As the other guys have said, the best thing is to learn to paint your own. Starting in 2002 I've done approximately twenty paint jobs, learning a little more each time. I've graduated into an OK amateur engine painter although I acknowledge that none of my examples is totally perfect. Still it is fun. I once had a oral surgeon whose motto was "Every implant has its own story". It's the same with every brass engine paint job.
I'll never forget my first purchase of a brass locomotive. I was also at a train show and being heavy into New York Central I spotted a 4-8-4 Niagara on a seller's table. I see-sawed over deciding to buy it but then jumped in and plunked down, I think, about $150 for this hefty chunk of metal and its tender.
Later in the show I met up with some friends and showed them my prize. "Wow, that's really sweet" they oohed and aahed. "Are you going to paint the tender Union Pacific or pretend the NYC borrowed one from a Challenger"?
In all my anxiety over looking at the engine, it didn't even occur to me that this wasn't the proper — not even close — tender for a Niagara. I never did find a pedestal tender for that engine and it has been on a shelf ever since and it serves as a reminder to keep a cool head when evaluating the purchase of a piece of brass equipment.
After a little research and experience you'll learn which importers and/or manufacturers offered top-of-the-line models and others which are, let's say, tolerable. Some importers even had a budget series and a "Prestige" series with the same locomotives offered in both.
This site is worth browsing to get some ideas of what's out there and about what the "going rate" is: http://www.brasstrains.com/
There's lots of detailed photos of the offerings and there is some information that may be helpful if you click the green "brass guide" tab.
In addition to the great comments by Tom, Dave and Howard above about disassembly and Burlington and Darth in regards to painting I'll make a few points here that I've picked up along the way...
Before you begin your disassembly, take as many clear, close-up photos as you can and as you remove components. If you think you will remember the exact sequence of that screw, brass washer, spring, fiber washer, spacer and another (different) washer as you reassemble your engine—probably three-to-six months later, as these projects tend to drag on—you may be in for a surprize.
Besides the photos, take notes and make schetches. Be sure to note which side the insulated wheels are on as well. I had just reassembled a B&O T-3a with a WOWsound decoder and I was having fits believing that I had wired something wrong. Here, all that had happened is the four-wheel pilot truck had spinned 180° between the shop and the layout and was now causing an intermittent short!
Speaking of wiring, make notes of how the motor was wired and if you are going to install DCC in the engine, you may have to isolate it from the frame. If you have a can motor in your engine you're probably OK. Otherwise you may want to probe around with an ohm meter and figure out how the power was routed to the motor. 99% of the brass engines I've come across, the engine is live to the right rail and the tender to the left and the power from the tender is directed through the drawbar. The drawbar pin is insulated from the frame and a wire soldered from there to the - side of the motor. You might want to eliminate the power through the drawbar and use mini wire connectors between the engine and tender.
Kapton tape is very handy to insulate areas that might be prone to shorting. I've used it on deck aprons and trailing trucks and tender trucks where shorting may be a problem.
I picked up another B&O engine, a Q-4b for a fantastically low price at a show and the seller explained that she has stripped gears so I have to unload it. As soon as I got home I removed the boiler and right away saw the rubber drive sleeve had disintegrated. All I needed was a little piece of silicone tubing and I was back in business!
Sometimes there are real bargains out there once you learn the field.
Going back to the disassembly, I get in the habbit of returning as many screws back into their original holes. Short of that, I'll tape them to a piece of card stock with a note about where they go and what order.
I found very few brass engines that are "headlight friendly"! I have some engines from the 1980s that have speaker openings in the tender floor (talk about forward thinking!) but absolutely no provision for getting a bulb or LED into the headlight housing. Drilling and running wiring can be VERY time consuming. This is what I mean when I say your project may wallow for a few weeks while you come up with ideas, and the nerve, to drill and route wires in some pretty tricky places. Right now I have a NYC U-2 on my bench and I'm trying to get a wire snaked up to the smokebox... it's slow going.
So keep track of those screws. One of the day-of-the-week pill containers can be handy for this.
Like Darth, I like to use Scalecoat I sprayed directly on the brass. I do strip the varnish and etch with vinegar which also helps to remove grease. Be sure to minimize handling and never get your bare fingers on the surface after you have cleaned the metal prior to painting. Use lint-free gloves or at least a clean cloth to minimize getting oils from your skin under the paint. I also do what Burlington suggests with a low-temp bake for about an hour. Scalecoat dries to a nice, gloss finish and is ready for decals which like the smoothest finish possible. Then you can put a clear matte or flat coat over that and begin to apply your weathering.
Howard's suggestion of keeping the drivers turning is a great technique as well. Nothing worse than seeing your engine roll down the main with only half the driving wheel painted or spots where the side rods were hiding the wheel.
Well, that's just a few experiences that I have picked up. I'll add to it if I think of any more. Hopefully others will share some pointers, too.
Good Luck, Ed
I paint my own brass instead of paying someone else to do it. I use a cheap Aztek A220 airbrush, and mostly Scalecoat II, Model Master, and Floquil paint with airbrush thinner (usually mixed 2/3 - 3/4 paint). Then I decal and finish with Model Master clear coat. Get some practice on cheaper stuff, and you may find you can do as good of a job as some of the professionals! You'll also learn how to take your brass apart and put it back together, which is very helpful for tune-ups or fixing problems.
_________________________________________________________________
Howard's given you some very good advise,I've painted a number of brass steamers this way,one thing to keep in mind is when painting using engine black is I have always mixed in a couple of drops of white to lighten the the black , helps with bringing out those small details.
also you can if you wish bake the finish on the boiler and tender shell in a oven but remember to use low heat say no more that 250 degrees for 30 mins.never on the running gear or anything with plastic though.
and as said while there are those that love using rattle cans you'll never get the control needed in all those little nooks and crannies without using a air brush.
at least that's been my experience lol
Actually if you are going to paint for yourself, it really is not that difficult. First make sure that everything functions well and all parts are there. Then if you have never used an airbursh (don't even think of rattle cans), it is best to acqure old loco or rolling stock shells at a show. They can be had quite reasonably. Practice various techniques and pressures/mixtures. You'll need this skill anyway.
In old days, most professional painters disassembled everything including drivers and rods. This is a crap shoot unless you are an extremely skilled brass mechanic..
For years I removed (assuming a steam loco) boiler by unscrewing the long screw under pony truck which also holds frame to boiler. Then undo the two small screws under the cab back plate. After boiler is removed, unscrew trailing truck. Tender is the same proceedure, by just unscrewing two trucks. Group loco and tender trucks together for spraying. Now you have three large items to paint....boiler, frame with drivers, and tender shell including frame. You then want to clean surfaces using warm soapy water. Vinegar and whatever etching is not necessary, but will not hurt.
Etching for a decent paint grip may be done by just applying a light tack coat of base color. Let it dry for a few hours, then apply how many coats you deem necessary. Usually two coats of 25% thinned model paint will suffice.
Frame and drivers are quite simple and look great when finished. just spray frame with drivers spinning. When you apply weathering if you so choose, the effect is quite realistic. Should you choose to leave rods bare, just apply thinner later with a Q-tip. Painting tires a color such as white... just spin drivers and hold a small brush with color on the tires. This is really quite easy to do. Painting trucks is a simple chore. As soon as wheels are dry remove any over spray again with a Q-tip on rim bottoms.
There is much more....like color scale, intensity, weathering and decaling, but this will get you started.
Good luck and you should find this quite rewarding.
The really vintage brass locomotives and rolling stock were "raw" brass which you can usually tell because it becomes tarnished or darkened with age. When the engines were brand new you could sometimes see that a different raw brass was used for parts of the locomotive because some would be yellowish, some almost rose or reddish in tint. Sometimes the tender would be a different brass than the boiler. Sometimes the cab was different from the boiler. There is no "one" color for brass.
I can recall seeing brass for sale at hobby shops which looked very tarnished which might be why it had not sold. At some point, perhaps the 1960s / 70s, the importers began painting brass locomotives in brass colors so that it would look uniform when new, and not tarnish. Custom painters seem to differ in opinion whether this brass paint is a good primer, or whether it needs to be stripped off before painting.
Another difference of opinion in guys who paint brass - should the mechanism be totally disassembled? Some say absolutely yes of course it has to be, to paint the frame etc. Other guys say that under no circumstance should an engine that has been tinkered with to run smoothly EVER be disassembled completely, because it will never run that well again. For a time brass engines came with preblackened frames which in theory avoided the need to completely disassemble the mechanism. The problem I guess is that the guys who wanted a pretty unpainted brass engine to look like jewelry on a shelf did not like the blackened frames.
There have been many articles in MR and other magazines about how to paint a steam locomotive model. And most of those articles generated letters to the editor taking issue with this or that practice.
Dave Nelson
Painting a brass locomotive requires disassembly, and a lot of folks are pretty hesitant to do that. Most brass steam engines have a bolt that runs up through the cylinder block, into the smokebox. There are usually two more small bolts under the cab. Remove these, and the boiler can be removed (carefully --- sometimes it's a fairly tight fit between the motor and firebox sides). Disassembly of the mechanism is much more challenging, and can be different from one engine to another.
In most cases, the parts are thoroughly cleaned and primed, although some paints (Scalecoat, for example) can be used without priming. Many painters like to use a low-power acid (vinegar, for example) to give a little "tooth" to the brass surfaces. Baking at a very low, well-controlled heat level is generally a good idea, but high heat can melt solder joints, which will definitely ruin your day. Care must be taken to remove or protect any plastic parts (insulation, coupler boxes, etc.) so that they are not damaged by paint solvent, heat, etc. The headlight, etc. must also be protected.
For the trucks you intend to replace, you can probably do all right by spraying or brush painting the individual parts before installation. Keep the paint rather thin so you don't obscure the details. For painting an entire locomotive and tender, you might want to have it done by a pro, or do it yourself under the guidance of somebody with experience. Eventually you'll develop a better, fuller understanding of the way these engines go together, and you'll develop the confidence to tackle the entire job on your own.
When you paint the tender trucks, be sure to leave the bearing surface of the bolsters unpainted, so good electical contact can be maintained!
Tom
Ok, You guys I told you about the Tenshodo GN 2-8-2 I picked up at this years Train Show. I falling in love with the feel, touch, and realism, and I know a $$$$$. I have a question how does a Brass Loco, or accessories become colored? I would want to leave that to an expert, and I guess my focus should only be White Elephant Sales, and Brass Expos. My focus on Locomotives, and Etc will be on B&O, C&O, and WM. I ordered the trucks from PSC, and I realized when looking at the Tender it needs trucks, and I know where to look now after the guidance. I want the entire wheel set to return to Brass however I think that's whishful thinking. You guys have me hooked now, I will be attending my first NMRA CONVENTION in New Jersey in October. Are there any other Brass collectors out there, how does a collector get his equipment painted, are there any good materials to learn about Brass collecting.Any do any of you modelers have any advice.
Thanks, again
sorry for the other post.
1 Tenshodo might as have another