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Did the prototype ever use undecoreted cabooses?

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, September 8, 2015 9:50 AM

Thanks again guys for solving a problem I had. I dont belong to a club & I rely heavily on this forum for answers to questions I cant get answers to elsewhere.Big Smile

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, September 8, 2015 2:22 AM

My prototype might as well have been the Undec.  95+ percent of the freight cars and brake vans were painted flat black with white reporting marks (which did not indicate owneership.)  Ownership was indicated on the right lower corner, on the side sill if exposed or on the carbody - six kanji characters in lettering about the size of that for a US lease trust.

When you're a government-owned monopoly, you don't have to tell anyone who you are.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, September 7, 2015 11:22 PM

doctorwayne

 

 
NittanyLion
...The steel was more important than the car, which was only a railcar in the sense that it had trucks, couplers, a frame, and brakes (I assume).

 

Not likely any brakes:  the only cars with brakes owned by the steel plant where I worked were ones used in interchange service, and those were tank cars used for coke oven by-products.  The plant locomotives had brakes, of course, but no airhoses on their pilots.  Stopping a drag of 50 4-axle steel buggies, loaded with over 1200 tons of hot ingots and their mould stools was a fairly noisy and brutal operation.  The buggies were all numbered, though, with numerals cut from 3/4" steel plate and welded to their sides - that was how we kept track of the heat lots and ingot numbers.

Wayne

 

Sure enough, I went to find a picture and it sure doesn't look like they have airhoses hanging down.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=356790&nseq=3

The flats are now sporting numbers, although that paint looks relatively fresh (as does the very new paint on the locomotive).

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, September 7, 2015 11:14 PM

the old train man
So let me get this right, if I put a different number on the few cabooses im using I will be reasonably close to prototype practices?

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Ed

 

Railroads applied numbers to their cabeese the same, and for the same reason, as their revenue cars.  And they tended to group them, too.  So, if your railroad bought 30 new cabeese from International, you might number them from 200 to 229.  And that series might or might not fit in with other series, like the 100-149 batch that you bought from ACF 10 years earlier.  It wasn't/isn't compulsory, but it was extremely common.  Railroads needed to keep track of their equipment.  This will be illustrated when/if you buy one of the color pictorial books of rolling stock for various railroads published by what's-their-names--I've got about 20 of them.

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Posted by the old train man on Monday, September 7, 2015 10:47 PM

NittanyLion
 
cv_acr

No.

There may be cases of cabooses and other cars painted in a very spartan paint job with no logos and minimal lettering, but at the very least they need to have the reporting marks/car number for identification.

 

 

 

Only in interchange service, otherwise all bets are off.  Although you'd probably want to put some sort of marking on them so you could keep track of maintenance, unless you had literally one caboose.

The steel mill in my hometown had a huge fleet of flats and gons with nary a marking on them.  The bins of unprocess scrap on the flats or in the gons carried numbers and the big rectangular hoods they put over the steel slabs on flats were numbered.  I assume that's how they kept track of stuff.  The steel was more important than the car, which was only a railcar in the sense that it had trucks, couplers, a frame, and brakes (I assume).

 

So let me get this right, if I put a different number on the few cabooses im using I will be reasonably close to prototype practices?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, September 7, 2015 10:23 PM

NittanyLion
...The steel was more important than the car, which was only a railcar in the sense that it had trucks, couplers, a frame, and brakes (I assume).

Not likely any brakes:  the only cars with brakes owned by the steel plant where I worked were ones used in interchange service, and those were tank cars used for coke oven by-products.  The plant locomotives had brakes, of course, but no airhoses on their pilots.  Stopping a drag of 50 4-axle steel buggies, loaded with over 1200 tons of hot ingots and their mould stools was a fairly noisy and brutal operation.  The buggies were all numbered, though, with numerals cut from 3/4" steel plate and welded to their sides - that was how we kept track of the heat lots and ingot numbers.

Wayne

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, September 7, 2015 10:00 PM

cv_acr

No.

There may be cases of cabooses and other cars painted in a very spartan paint job with no logos and minimal lettering, but at the very least they need to have the reporting marks/car number for identification.

 

When the Rock Island shut down in 1980, there were many cabooses reclaimed by owner UP.  (They had financed them during the years they were trying to merge with the RI.)   UP just painted out "Rock Island" or "The Rock" lettering and any emblems and just renumbered them with UP marks.  The only other lettering was mechanical related data all cars have.

  http://www.pbase.com/rocksosalla/image/158746797

http://www.pbase.com/rocksosalla/image/143703333

Jeff

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, September 7, 2015 8:40 PM

Building on what Tom said above, if a railroad has two cabeese, it's awfully handy to have numbers on each one--for maintenance purposes, and assignments, and who knows.  BUT if the railroad only has one caboose, there would be no need for a number at all.  Everyone knows which caboose you're talking about.  Of course, any REAL railroader would find THAT totally unacceptable.  But I am quite sure that somewhere, there was/is a caboose with no number at all.  And with just a bit more negligence, you've got an undec.

And the South was full of such railroads.

So, if yer talking about a railroad with one caboose: maybe

If yer talking about a railroad with more than one:  no undecs

 

Now, if the reason the question was asked was a fear of decaling (a fear I lived with for several years--I sympathize), I recommend scrounging up a couple cheap/scrap cars and giving it a try.  If it doesn't work, toss 'em.  If it does, be impressed with your newfound ability.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, September 7, 2015 8:40 PM

cv_acr

No.

There may be cases of cabooses and other cars painted in a very spartan paint job with no logos and minimal lettering, but at the very least they need to have the reporting marks/car number for identification.

 

Only in interchange service, otherwise all bets are off.  Although you'd probably want to put some sort of marking on them so you could keep track of maintenance, unless you had literally one caboose.

The steel mill in my hometown had a huge fleet of flats and gons with nary a marking on them.  The bins of unprocess scrap on the flats or in the gons carried numbers and the big rectangular hoods they put over the steel slabs on flats were numbered.  I assume that's how they kept track of stuff.  The steel was more important than the car, which was only a railcar in the sense that it had trucks, couplers, a frame, and brakes (I assume).

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, September 7, 2015 8:25 PM

Well, they had to have some kind of paint on them, so they wouldn't be totally undecorated.  But not necessarily much more than that.  Shortlines have modest needs.  Here's an example:  The Akron & Barberton Belt Railroad, an Ohio switching road, borrowed some wooden N6b cabin cars from the PRR.  At least one was in A&BB service by around January, 1947.  By May of 1948, A&BB had bought two of the N6b's from the PRR.  These were PRR 983044 and 982228, which became A&BB numbers 1 and 2, respectively.  The old Pennsylvania lettering, number, and divisional assignment was painted over in fresh red paint, and a small white 1 or 2 was applied over that.  That was all.  Photos don't show whether there was any lettering on the ends.  The repacking data was left intact in small lettering over one truck.  That's it.  I guess the reporting marks weren't necessary since these weren't interchange cars.  Maybe there's a road somewhere that got by with only one caboose, and therefore didn't need a number.

The history of A&BB's cabooses was discussed in detail (some say too much detail) in the Spring-Summer, 2014 issue of the AC&Y Historical Society News, vol. XIX, no. 1.  It's available on the AC&Y HS site, free of charge.   I wrote the article.   Yes, this is an undisguised, blatant attempt at self-promotion. Wink

Tom

(edited to correct dates)

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Posted by Graham Line on Monday, September 7, 2015 8:09 PM

We have a UNDX mechanical reefer on the club layout, but it looks very much like a patched Tropicana car from the 1970s.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, September 7, 2015 8:04 PM

the old train man
short lines ever ran with undecorated cabooses?

I knew of one 17 mile long short  line that had a primer gray caboose with O1 as the number. Their GP7 was very faded L&N gray and carried the number 34.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


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Posted by rrinker on Monday, September 7, 2015 7:22 PM

 Unless your prototype is the Undec. RR. They never botherd to paint engines, cabooses, or any other car for that matter. So mixed in with the nicely colored foreign road cars, you had all the plain ones. Now, the real question is, are you modeling the Undec. RR in their early plain black scheme, or the later plain grey?

(tongue firmly in cheek)

                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, September 7, 2015 7:17 PM

No.

There may be cases of cabooses and other cars painted in a very spartan paint job with no logos and minimal lettering, but at the very least they need to have the reporting marks/car number for identification.

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Did the prototype ever use undecoreted cabooses?
Posted by the old train man on Monday, September 7, 2015 5:59 PM

 

Need to know if southern trains,including L&N,Southern and short lines ever ran with undecorated cabooses?

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