Hi everyone:
I have decided to explore the purchase of a dual action air brush. I have had a single action Badger 200NH for a while and I have been able to achieve reasonable results with it. Now I am considering getting into a dual action air brush to expand my capabilities.
I have narrowed my choices a bit. I would like a siphon feed or side feed style as opposed to a gravity feed. Having the paint cup out of my line of sight is only one consideration. More importantly, I am worried about spilling paint out of the gravity feed cup, even with a cap on it. If there is a way to spill paint, I will certainly find it!
I don't want to spend a fortune, but I also recognize that you generally get what you pay for. I'm willing to spend about $70.00 US but if I can get a good unit for less obviously I would be interested. I am not going to take a chance on the cheap Chinese $20 stuff.
So, any suggestions?
Thanks as always
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The Paasche' VL model has been around for decades and is a very good workhorse for the price. To me it's like a "GP38-2" in that it's tough, versatile, and reliable.
The box kit includes airhose, 2 jars, one chrome cup, wrench, and needle/aircap changouts. It usually sells for approximately $80, however, you can find it at web dealers ranging in the $60-$70 range.
The one feature that can "spoil you" about the VL is the scroll wheel lock that allows you to set the trigger to a particular position. In a sense you can turn it into a single action airbrush for a particular job.
Keep it clean and it will perform well through many paint jobs. I got 20+ years out of one unit and retired it only due to dropping it on a concrete floor for the 3rd time. (yes, call me a klutz!).
Although I do use more expensive airbrushes from time to time (I have four) I keep going back to that reliable "GP38-2" over and over again.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I use a Badger 150, another old workhorse design - siphon feed, internal mix. I picked mine up for a very reasonable price at a craft store chain (Michael's) using one of their 40% off coupons that show up from time to time. The kit came with a color cup, two bottles, three sizes of nozzle and needle, and a hose. Like the Paasche VL, it has the thumbscrew to set a particular needle position.
George V.
Hi Dave,
I have used the Badger Crescendo 175 for years. Good dual action brush, but a bit thick for my hand size. This affects the feel of the brush.
I also have the Paasche VL that was mentioned in more detail. A thinner brush and is a good quality workhorse.
But, if you want a smooth as silk airbrush that feels like a well-balanced painting instrument, I would look into Iwata airbrushes. I have an Iwata gravity feed Revolution. This model also comes as a bottom feed.
A great place to buy an Iwata and/or Paasche is Hobby Lobby. I used their weekly 40% off coupon to get my Iwata at a great price. I checked and Ontario, Canada has a HL.
The Iwata is much thinner than the others I own, giving it a really precise feel in my hand. Great for detailed painting and fine weathering.
One thing, the trigger on the Badger tends to get less smooth as the plating wears off the trigger slot in the brass body. But this is after over 20 years of use.
Bottom line. I would get the one that feels best in your hands because your trigger finger will have to push as well as pull to use a dual action brush.
Hope all this helps in your search for the "perfect" brush.
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
AntonioFP45, George V and Joel:
Thanks for your suggestions. You have given me some good information and places to start looking.
I also have several Paache brushes, including the VL, and love them, but I recently purchased a top feed Paache Talon and havent used any of my other airbrushes since then. Its a bit more to clean since the paint cup isnt removable, but its buttery smooth, has multiple size needles, and an optional fan tip, so the extra clean time is worth it.
For over 5 years or so, I have been using a Badger 155 Anthem:
http://badgerairbrush.com/Anthem_155.asp
What I love about the 155 is that it rarely clogs. I can just keep pulling back on the trigger to either "blow out" the clog or just get enough of a hole to keep spraying. I had a Badger 200, and I could never complete a model without cleaning it. With the 155, I can paint several models (like a group of hoppers) without clogging.
Paul A. Cutler III
I just bought a Paasche 2000VL from eBay for $59.99 plus shipping. Paasche lists the suggested retail at $98.00 so I think I did OK.
Thanks for all your suggestions.
Well, you won't like my answer, but...
I have been using the one from Harbor Freight, made by Central Pnumatic, that is a knock-off. (Looks like the Badger Omni 3000 model, unsure however if the parts are interchangeable... I have never had to try.)
Works really well, and, parts are cheap and readily available through them. (Spare jars? $1.00 each. Bend your needle, they can ship a new needle.) It really is a nice little brush, and does what I need it to do.
So, my answer, do not count out the cheap, made elsewhere, models.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I've been using Paasche VL models for 20 years now. I love the results, the control it gives me, and the fact it is easy enough to get parts for, including rebuilding kits.
Airbrushes are a little like SLR/DSLR cameras, IMO. You'll get used to the nuances of whatever you buy and most likely become loyal to that brand.
- Mark
ricktrains4824 Well, you won't like my answer, but... I have been using the one from Harbor Freight, made by Central Pnumatic, that is a knock-off. (Looks like the Badger Omni 3000 model, unsure however if the parts are interchangeable... I have never had to try.) Works really well, and, parts are cheap and readily available through them. (Spare jars? $1.00 each. Bend your needle, they can ship a new needle.) It really is a nice little brush, and does what I need it to do. So, my answer, do not count out the cheap, made elsewhere, models.
Ditto
(Whatever happened to that doggone Ditto smiley, anyway?! )
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Sorry Ricky W and Dan - too late.
The deed is done and I hope I will be happy with my choice. At least by spending the extra bucks I know I am getting a reliable product, not to suggest that your airbrushes aren't.
I am admittedly inconsistent when it comes to buying things for low prices on eBay. I have no problems buying LEDs at rock bottom prices even though the consequences of early failure will require a ton of work to replace them. However, when it comes to tools I don't feel comfortable going cheap. I guess I just paid an extra $40 for peace of mind.
Thanks for your input.
Any discussion about airbrushes seems to turn into a poll but I have had great results with both my Paasche tools, the VL and an old Model H. I think $60 is a good price if you got the complete kit with three heads:
http://www.dickblick.com/items/25010-0300/
hon30critterI am admittedly inconsistent when it comes to buying things for low prices on eBay.
I frequently face the same dilemma, Dave, when weighing "cheap" versus "quality"
Usually, for me, quality wins out and I'm not disappointed.
When I do get is when I pay for quality (i.e. popular name brand) and find out that, for whatever reasons, the current manufacturer has cut corners to such a degree that you are left with a pile of useless junk.
Consumer reviews on the web are helpful but you still have to do some research and exercise a degree of caution.
Let us know how you make out with your new "toy"
Have fun! Ed
Hi Ed:
I don't know if I got the three heads listed in the kit you posted the link to, but the description for the one I bought says there are "...interchangable nozzles for fluids of different consistancies....". I'll have to wait to see what I get.
Dave,
since you have the VL, I hope this will be helpful. The link below is a thread that I posted that features tips for metalizing. In it I included some tips for cleaning the airbrush.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/248634.aspx
Antonio,
I took the liberty to make your link work with a click
Ed
AntonioFP45:
Thanks very much for the link to your thread on using and cleaning the VL. Good information.
For what it's worth, I always do a full cleaning of my Badger 200ND after every job. In fact, I clean the airbrush before doing anything with the painted models including removing the masking tape. I use laquer thinner and I have a set of the micro brushes. Recently I learned the hard way to handle the needle very gently. I managed to put a bend in it when applying too much force while wiping it down. Fortunately I was able to get it straightened out. I think I was lucky.
GMPullman,
Thank you for activating the link. I did the copy and paste procedure several times, yet it would not work for me, which I found quite odd.
you definitely have your act together. BTW: I know what you mean about the needles. I learned the hard way about handling them with a gentle touch (I was a bit of a "Fred Flintstone" back in the day).
Quick Tip: In case you're a passenger rail modeler and might consider metalizing; use the #1 needle/aircap setup for applying Alclad. Makes it so easy and overspray is almost non-existent. For everything else, the #3 setup works quite well.
Well, I didn't have my act together last night, that's for sure!
I had decided to paint the shell of my McKeen motor car project black to prevent light leakage when the interior lighting is on. Instead of going with tried and true, which any sane modeler would have done given the amount of work I am putting into this kit, I decided to try the Vallejo paint that I had just purchased. It is acrylic, and it was pretty thick in the bottle so I decided to thin it with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Big mistake! It turned the paint into the consistency of roofing tar. Unfortunately I didn't realize this until I had started to spray and I couldn't get anything out of the nozzle. Next big mistake was to up the pressure. I finally figured out things weren't going so well when the 'tar' started to ooze out around the base of the trigger.
Fortunately I didn't get any of the crap on the model and I was able to clean everything out of the airbrush with laquer thinner.
I went back to tried and true Trueline flat black and the model was painted beautifully if I can say so myself. No thinning required. It covers very well but it was still thin enough to reveal a host of minor defects which needed to be addressed before the final colour goes on.
I suppose I should ask what I should use to thin the Vallejo paints since I have five or so bottles of the stuff. I won't buy any more for the simple reason that returning any unused paint to the bottle is next to impossible unless you pry the nozzle off. Bad design IMHO. I can always use it for brush application I suppose.
Learning something new every day!
The airbrush arrived today. Unfortunately it didn't come with the two extra needles and tips that were mentioned as being part of another kit with the same brush in it. Oh well.
Now its time to do some reading and practice. I hope I can get onto the dual action. I'm not the most coordinated person on the planet.
Thanks again for all your input.
My apologies for not responding sooner. Sorry to read about your experience with Vallejo paint. From my understanding, if Vallejo paint thinner is not available, Tamiya's X-20 thinner is usable.
Don't feel bad. I experienced a paint "Yuck-mush!" disaster on one occasion years ago. Learned the hard way that after thoroughly mixing and stirring the paint, it's good practice to check consistency before pouring it into a spray gun or airbrush cup/jar.
Opinions vary, but I would never suggest thinning down acrylic paint with iso-alcohol only, as this would accelerate drying time considerably (as Scotty from Star Trek would say: "A weeeeeeee bit too much!"). My preference would be a mix ratio of 30% distilled water to 70% iso-alcohol. Be aware that if you use Tamiya paints, an excessive amount of iso-alcohol will dull down or flatten the gloss finish.
To be frank, I've stopped using alcohol in my acrylic mixes.
I hope you're having fun practicing with your airbrush. Since you didn't get the full Paasche' VL airbrush kit, you most likely have the number 3 needle and aircap setup on your VL. That works nicely for painting/weathering scale models with acrylic and solvent based paints. The fine-sized number 1 needle and aircap setup is excellent for painting tiny details and very fine lines (also good for applying the Alclad2 metalizer). The #5 setup gives you a rattlecan-sized fan and enables the painting of larger areas and slightly thicker mixes.
Features like these are part of the reason why it was so easy for me to give up spray cans.
When I first started airbrushing, my finishes tended to be either slightly textured or orange peely. I learned to thin my paint mixes more precisely and fine tune my airbrushing distance and stroke speed. Over time my finishes became smoother. I still make mistakes, but not as many.
Hi AntonioFP45:
Thanks for the advice.
I haven't used the Paasche airbrush yet. The only paint project I have had was the shell on my McKeen Motor Car project and I decided to stick with the Badger single action airbrush rather than experiment on something that I have put so much work into.
Interestingly, the black Valejo 'muck' reared its ugly head again. I couldn't get any paint through the brush so I decided to soak it in laquer thinner again. I had done this the first time I gunked the brush up, and I thought I had it all out. Apparently not so because I got a bunch more black pigment out of it using my cleaning brushes. Nasty stuff!
Anyhow the paint job came out quite nicely using TrueLine Trains acrylic paint straight out of the bottle.