The Railroad era of Logging in Pennsylvania that Beach Bill mentioned would be a good place to start. If you can find a library that has copies of these books to look through, that would be your best bet. I just packed up all my books for a move to Montana or I could tell you exactly which book in the series deals specifically with NorthEastern PA.
Robert H. Shilling II
hardcoalcaseI'm considering a saw mill for my layout, set in NE PA in 1910; a pond would be a space consideration.
No..A lot of Eastern mills didn't have a log pond because logs was cut by independent loggers and hauled to the mill by wagon and unloaded and then separated by size by teamsters using mules or horses to pull the logs.. Other teamsters using mules would drag the logs to the saw for cutting. Also by 1912 many Eastern mills converted to steam tractors to cut labor and feed costs.
It was harsh and dangerous work for a whopping $1.00 a day.The sawer was paid $2.00 a day because skilled sawers was hard to come by simply because many was killed or injured on the job. This was 12 hours a day 6 days a week job during the summer..The winter months was 8-10 hours 6 days a week for the same pay.Some mills had a veneer operation as well.
Larry
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(Addendum) As was mentioned in an earlier post, a log pond does not need to be particularly large to convey the image. In HO, my pond is somewhat triangular shape, with a curved track behind. It's dimensions are 16" x 10", where the 10" is about the width of the sawmill and the 16" is where four short Keystone Locomotive Works log cars can be spotted for dumping into the pond.
Bill
There are numerous examples of sizeable sawmills without the pond. You may wish to check out the books by Bill Gove about logging in the New Hampshire area. He has written several books, and Logging Railroads Along The Pemigewasset River may be a good place to start as it contains several photos of "log yards" where the logs are piled up at the mill after being unloaded from the railcars.
Certainly the best reference for your era and setting would be the series Logging Railroad Era of Lumbering in Pennsylvania, which is (I think) 13 volumes. The one titled Tall Pines And Winding Rivers by Benjamin F. G. Kline contains a photo of the "log dump" and mill at Kendall, Maryland. A Barnhart loader is being used to sort or select the logs which have been apparently dumped down an embankment near the mill.
Certainly the larger mills of that era tended to use a log pond. The pond allows sorting of the timber, so that if today's order in the mill is for spruce, then spruce logs can be guided to the jack slip. Still, I see no reason why a log dump or log yard could not be utilized and justified.
While hunting in north west PA, I was walking along a long abandoned rail road bed. At one point the rail road grading went below the 'normal' grade of the area by almost 3'. This hole that the rail road was in appeared to be about 40' long. I ask some of the locals what this might have been. Turns out this was where logs were rolled onto flat cars to be hauled out of the woods. The rail road went to a semi-permanant sawmill. Another section of the rail road then took the lumber to the local towns.
No ponds for miles.
This might make an interesting spot on your layout if you have the room.
South Penn
Around here there were no ponds, logging dated from around 1900 or earlier.
My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/
Hello All,
Here in the mining country of Colorado, because of the lack of navigable waterways, portable sawmills were popular.
The theory was to take the mill to the lumber.
Here's an article about the one in Breckenridge, Colorado.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Sawmills located where arranging a pond would be problematical would dry-yard logs, simply laying them out flat on the ground, or, sometimes, piling them in stacks. A single spar tree with a boom, located where the boom could reach most of the yard surface, would be used to position logs, or to pull them for lineup.
Also, straddle loaders go back a long time and can be used if there is no convenient tree to turn into a spar tree.
The mill at Standard, CA, dry-yarded logs. A little farther up the valley, the West Side mill at Tuolumne had a pond.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with a dry yard)
Here on the Island we had four tide powers, a rope walk, combination shingle/carding/grist mill, and two saw mills. Even now there are two "sawdust piles" left from a steam powered mill that was moved to different locations.
I still work with a friend of mine cutting oak stock for lobster traps with a mill that was made in the late 1870s. The steam engine has been replaced with a 6-71 diesel, but that is the only upgrade. The mill has a 60 inch blade, carbide insert teeth, cutting a 1/4" scarf.
Most logging here was done in the wintertime, logs were brought out on a large sled with a team of horses. When Dad cut the property in 52 the woodcutter had a matched set of Percherons, and two Oliver crawler tractors. Charlie was the teamster, and on most days he would twitch out more logs that the tractor drivers.
Most everything was done by hand, logs were rolled onto the trucks from a made berm, two men using pv-s to roll them into place.
The logs were taken to a portable mill that was set up on an adjacent island where they were cut.
So---no, a pond is not necessary for your mill. While a very large number were water powered, there were those that weren't.
herrinchoker
Some will depend on the size of your mill. Though the mill I'm thinking of was in the late 40's if didn't have much mechanization. There was a fairly long set of approach logs (ramp) where the logs came off the trucks, not always lined up well. Loads that came in in your era were smaller and slower to arrive at small mills, so the need for storage was quite different. Yes, a good horse or team could do a lot of the moving if necessary.
Another mill I remember was set up in the woods. Most of the logs were dragged directly to the mill by team and right onto the approach. Very little pre-sawing storage. The only thing left of that one is the rusted old slab burner.
Good luck,
Richard
There are many portable saw mills, where the operator will come on to a property, cut what is usegul, rough mill it right there in the woods, and truck it out. There were no useful streams in the area, and it is easier to truck out sticks than loghs.
RAOR
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One of my uncles ran his fathers sawmill from the late fifties on. It did not have a pond at that time, but I don't know when it was built, or if it had one earlier. This was 150 miles north of Lake Ontario.
Dave
Yeah, agree with Roger here. In 1910, material handling equipment amounted to a trained team of draft horses. Tough to move a lot of logs like that. After WWI and with the advent of the bulldozer, it became possible to mechanically yard logs economically. But ponds were still common until after WWII.
As for space for it, I had very little myself. I have a fairly large mill at Rockwood, but if you look closely the pond is rather puny -- but all I could devote to it spacewise. It works for me.
I put the pond in between the two wings of the building, then forced the perspective some with the small windows behind that on the "far side of the pond." Perhaps a similar trick will help you?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
As they say, "Never say never." I suspect that there were at least a few (maybe even very few) mills without ponds. But certainly ponds accompanied most mills of that time period. How about modeling just a portion of a pond? If it is at the rear of your mill, just two or three inches could then be extended onto your backdrop. Or if at the front, build a clear "dam" to keep the pon water from flowing off the edge of your layout. All you need is a few inches to represent a larger pond off scene.
Obviously a mill pond facilitates the sorting and handling of logs to be cut, but were other means used?
I'm considering a saw mill for my layout, set in NE PA in 1910; a pond would be a space consideration.
Thanks!
Jim