Actually I was so pissed after the last theft, I did cancel all open houses and then later allowed only folks I knew to visit the pike.
I do miss having "civilians" visit the layout, and I enjoyed some of their comments as strange as some were...........but I don't miss the worrying and watching everyone in fear that somethig will find its way into a pocket or a whatever.
Today as mentioned, I'm honored that folks want to visit, but now only groups, clubs, or visiting model rails. I do now vet all visitors if unknown to me.
My dad was my mentor having a huge O gauge/O scale pike in our home in New Jersey, but he was completely secretive about it and would never allow visitors unless they were good friends or other model rails he knew well. At social gatherings at our home, I can remember him being asked about his trains. He would reply with...."What trains? Oh yeah I have a few toy trains, but nothing really to see". His nothing to see was a fully upholstered O gauge and then scale 95' x 16' pike. Me...? I'm just the opposite, but have been whittled down somewhat by the thefts.
HZ
HZ,If that happen to me I would end open house visitations except for those I trust.
I will relate a story about a "stolen" engine..
Way back in '85 I was a member of a rather small club that held open houses 4 times a year (two was for holiday food drives and one toys for tots..Anywhoo a engine went missing and the member threw a real hizzy fit and wanted to stop having open houses and visitor nights. Well,we found his engine on a shelf under the layout the following week..
Apparently the BB GP7 lost its clip on coupler box and coupler and one of the younger members placed it under the layout until he had a chance to take it to the meeting room and place it on the "fix me" shelf as per the club's rules but,he had forgotten about it. A honest mistake for a teenage member whose attention span could be counted in seconds if a certain member's daughter showed up.
The engine was united with its owner but,I'm not sure if the young lad ever got the girl he had his heart set on.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Folks,
As mentioned, my exposure was most likely greater than most. Beginning around 1985, after each Timonium train show, I allowed (actually invited) both attendees and vendors to come over Saturday eve and play with the big train set. This became a ritual to about 2005. Sometimes as many as 85 would attend as the train room grew to almost 3000 sq. feet. I pulled the plug when I lost a 4 truck Key shay, and my suspicions were from a fellow who came in with a box and asked if he could run his loco. I said sure....just ask one of my helpers as I was then in another part of the house. My guess was the box was empty and left with the shay. Not one of my helpers remembered this guy further cementing my suspicion. There were other thefts....one from a local club member who then sent me an email telling me he stole a locomotive and try to catch him. The letter was also peppered with anti-semantic ravings. Even with the help from local good guys and FBI as this was a hate crime, he was not caught. I suspect who the culprit was, but I can not act on a suspicion. I did refuse all club members future visitation and vendor privildges at the show as they did nothing to help and claimed I was nuts and off base. This happened during a club visit .After these happenings, I restricted visits to vendors only on train show evening, and never again to the general public....only to established groups and clubs, and then I will vet them before I give the nod.
Also, I was hit during an open house from a middle age lady who arrived early claiming her husband was in the group and she was to meet him here. She asked if she could see the layout, and of course I said go ahead. She had a large hand bag which I thought nothing about as I was then trusting everyone. She apparently left when the crowds arrived. Afterwards I noticed I was missing three kit bulit R-70 reefers and an Alco brass Trainmaster. There were more, but minor items.............so this is how I came up with my rules in beginning post. As mentioned during the last three decades I had a serious mess of vistiors and 99.9% were just great and complimentary...although some of the comments were "strange".
I still accept and welcome visitors, but they must adhere to my rules.
BRAKIE Even the header of this topic would be cause for many folk interested in the hobby not to attend a club or home open house.
Even the header of this topic would be cause for many folk interested in the hobby not to attend a club or home open house.
Rich
Alton Junction
mlehmanPeople have less disposable income, first of all. But as everyone's connections to the hobby, like with many other things in life, turns towards the virtual world, well, they buy less and less of the physical manifestations of the hobby. Even simple things are not available, cost too much, and are unfamiliar to use for many, because most of what they know about the hobby was gained online. They may be knowledgeable, but it's like a pond that's an inch deep and a 100 miles wide, often a very fragile skill set and limited investment compared to building and operating a layout.
I don't think that's a real cause judging by the mob of shoppers I seen in Target and Meijer yesterday evening..It looked like every fast food joint,Golden Corral and Denny's was packed so,I decided to go to Skyline Chili instead and that place was busy. Contrary to what the doom and gloom "experts"in the news says people seems to be enjoying life.
I do think smaller layouts and ISLs may become the norm since they are cheaper to build then your average basement filling layout.
Another thought..How about all the monthly announcements and the new model companies that has started business in the last 10 years?
Of course we may have met the enemy and he is us. A club has a open house and then watch their attendees like they are going to rip them off,not talking to them or giving them sticker shock instead of saying depends on how much you want to spend.
BRAKIEIf I may and as a thought..The NMRA is not the best way to measure the hobby base since their membership has fallen over the years.
Larry,
Actually, Charlie used mostly non-NMRA metrics in assessing the situation. I agree that NMRA membership alone wouldn't tell you too much. It's the fact that falling membership is correlated to a number of other factors: page count in MR; some other stats that Kalmbach has put out at various times; falling LHS counts; and the steadily rising average age of model railroaders. All are familiar themes here. I'm not going to beat a dead horse over them.
In terms of what you describe as the younger generation and I discussed in terms of the "new media," it's very hard to put numbers on a lot of that. Sure, there's some positive anecdotes out there as you say. But measuring that is very difficult beyond guesstimates. Where there's hard evidence, it's generally downward in the opposite direction.
I don't doubt that the internet has changed much. I know it has for me. I also know many of the model railroaders around and most do not have layouts, although many wish they did. Not too surprising in a university community, since it's so mobile and full of other demands on people's time.
I suspect there's just as many interested in the hobby as before, but their economic impact per person is falling. People have less disposable income, first of all. But as everyone's connections to the hobby, like with many other things in life, turns towards the virtual world, well, they buy less and less of the physical manifestations of the hobby. Even simple things are not available, cost too much, and are unfamiliar to use for many, because most of what they know about the hobby was gained online. They may be knowledgeable, but it's like a pond that's an inch deep and a 100 miles wide, often a very fragile skill set and limited investment compared to building and operating a layout.
Thus, this why I don't think we shouldn't worry too much about "new blood" when we need to focus on holding those already in the hobby a little closer, helping them when we can, and showing the public in the ways we can manage that it is an acessible to as many as possible.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrain....I wonder how Howard and others deal with the invitation list for an open house. Who is invited and how is the open house invitation issued?
Around here, usually in the Fall, various clubs organise layout tours in their general area as fund raisers. Club members or other interested parties sign-on to be included on the tour, providing a brief description of their layout, along with an address. This information is printed in booklet form, and then distributed to area hobby shops and whatever other locations they feel might attract interested viewers. The cost is usually $5.00, and it's up to the individual attendees to decide which layouts they wish to view. While I've not had my layout on the tours, I've been on several and found it quite enjoyable. Crowds seem to be composed of model railroaders, possible model railroaders, and families or individuals just curious about the hobby or just bored enough to make part of the tour as "something to do on a Saturday".A friend has had his layout on the last two tours in his area (he's not really even in that area, but it's the one closest to his fairly out-of-the-way location. One the first tour, he had 28 visitors, including ones from more than 150 miles away. He got enough favourable comments to open his layout the following year, too, and I suspect he enjoys the socialising as much as the visitors enjoy the layout.
Wayne
mlehmanBut it is a real problem, the shrinking base of our hobby, at least in terms that can be measured. Charlie Getz's president's column in the NMRA Magazine discusses this in detail. If I were to criticize Howard's statement, it's the idea that open houses will "grow" the hobby.
If I may and as a thought..The NMRA is not the best way to measure the hobby base since their membership has fallen over the years.
From my personal observations at the six train shows I attend,while trackside and on you tube the hobby seems to have a lot of young people.
The old school hobby thinking is dead or dying. Today's young modelers knows where to find information and how to shop on line.I would wager the majority may not even know a model railroad club is located in their city or town simply because the club is silent and never holds a open house or has a membership drive..To these gray and white beard clubs the hobby is "dying". To the modelers that seldom attend train shows or go trackside the hobby is "dying". To the lone wolf the hobby is "dying". To some the closing of LHS means the hobby is "dying".
How many silent modelers is out there with their home layouts that never reads MR,yet keeps up with the latest models via the internet, MRH and product reviews on you tube? The computor age has changed a lot of things in every hobby and our hobby is no different..
My next door neighbor may have a layout and I would not be aware of it.
How about your neighborhood?
DAVID FORTNEY I usually just invite my train friends for food and trains. The last time I invited my family to see my trains I lost 2 steam engines. There is no right or wrong way to show off your layout, have friends over but I would be wary of people you do not know. Of course that did not work for me. Who thought family would steal for me, but it happened.
I usually just invite my train friends for food and trains. The last time I invited my family to see my trains I lost 2 steam engines.
There is no right or wrong way to show off your layout, have friends over but I would be wary of people you do not know. Of course that did not work for me. Who thought family would steal for me, but it happened.
Mike, thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it.
I went back and re-read Howard's various posts, trying to get a better idea of who exactly is invited to an open house. He does mention "inviting unknown folks", so that helps to understand the nature of the demographics involved in an open house.
If I were even to contemplate an open house, beyond such events as family and friends who might be over and simply visiting in a social setting, my first thought would be to limit the invitation to forum members, people who participate in the hobby and have a share passion for model railroad layouts. But, even then, there is always the possibility that some may bring with them others who do not necessarily participate in the hobby or share the passion. So, you are always "vunerable".
Expanding the demographic, an open house invitation could be extended to model railroaders in general, whoever they might be. But, to that, I say, no thank you, because now you lack even the on line familiarity with fellow forum members.
Beyond that, I suppose you could simply post an open house invitation in a local newspaper or whatever. Ugh.
I wonder how Howard and others deal with the invitation list for an open house. Who is invited and how is the open house invitation issued?
Rich,
That's a thoughtful response. I didn't want to imply that negative reactions to the idea of an open house are wrong, just that we need to continue to do this, those who can be comfortable with the idea. Or something else. I'd be doing what I'm doing if I were the Last Model Railroader -- but I'd have to rely on others leftovers.
But it is a real problem, the shrinking base of our hobby, at least in terms that can be measured. Charlie Getz's president's column in the NMRA Magazine discusses this in detail. If I were to criticize Howard's statement, it's the idea that open houses will "grow" the hobby.
The reality is we have to do things like that and much more just to get back to the point where we aren't losing people. No, not another tired argument about the Death of the Hobby. Rather, it's a more practical thing I'm discussing.
If we want to continue to enjoy things like RTR and a steady stream of new products, a shrinking base, even if somewhat better off than many, still doesn't supply the financial incentives to producers to keep making new products as it once did. The hobby is always changing, but this is a change to smaller numbers that may cause even more fundamental changes that are likely to make it more exclusive, expensive, and difficult to get aboard, no matter what your age.
Open houses aren't a magic cure and I don't think that's Howard's claim anyway. They're just part of the package we all should think about contributing in some way to in order to ensure a better future for those who follow. We owe a debt to those who came before and gave us this opportunity. If nothing else, in some small way paying that back by helping encourage others to get involved is a small price to pay, no matter what form that takes for each of us as individuals.
I am amazed at the number of turns that this thread is taking. I, for one, have no argument with open houses, and I think that this thread is perfectly fine talking about and encouraging open houses.
There is, of course, the implication that with such happenings as open houses are necessary to grow the hobby and prevent its demise (i.e., going south). So, it is only natural for others to comment on that implication.
I will say one other thing about Howard's opening post. He rightfully points out all of the precautions that must be taken to avoid damage, vandalism, and theft. But, by doing this, it naturally raises fears and hesitations in others about even considering an open house.
So, there are a lot of ways to react to this thread and, so far, all seem reasonable.
Carl,
Thanks for the correction.
Still, the specific quote is just an observation that is true as far as it goes.
I can see where some would dispute Howard's belief in the sentences before and after that only face to face interaction with those in the hobby is effective in recruiting new modelers. I share his skepticism about "virtual recruitment" via the "new media."
My reason for that is that the new media, in general, tends to turn people into inactive consumers, rather than active participants. True, a few will make the leap to hands on modeling, but this will be a tiny percentage of those actually reading or viewing online. It's not just model railroading. This effect is one that has been noticed and drawn concern across the spectrum of our daily lives.
The biggest problem for our hobby is the "critical mass" one. If people don't see others doing model railroading in ways they can easily interact with, it usually means they are relegated to being mere observers. Little participation, nothing really needed from vendors, and most things purchased come online.
The hobby always had a tendency toward solitude. I certainly enjoy that aspect myself, the getting-away-from-it all. But if it weren't for thousands of others out there like me, I would not enjoy the range of great products available now. That will slowly shrivel (as we've seen in some areas) and disappear (if we're complacent that what we have is a given) unless new active modelers keep coming aboard.
mlehmanWhat Howard actually said was:
I believe the reference was actually to this post rather than the original post that opened the thread.
Posted by Howard Zane on Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:00 PM
Howard ZaneWhy bother with an open house??? Open houses, good train shows, and what is left of train stores are the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby. Without new folks, the hobby will eventually go south. Some say video and You tube are exciting new people.....I do not buy this as nothing is better than seeing this hobby first hand, and speaking with model rails.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
What Howard actually said was:
"Folks as train season approaches many of us plan on having open houses. This is a wonderful and important thing for the growth and perpetuation of our hobby"
Howard wasn't talking about the death of the hobby, but rather how to grow the hobby. An open house is but one example. YMMV, naturally.
Odd that the very idea is so controversial. Like a lot of such things in our society, the best thing to do might be to simply not have an open house if it doesn't suit you. Problem solved.
That doesn't really explain the great national obsession with "correcting" what other folks think or do, but does seem to be symptomatic of that.
JOHN BRUCE III My experience is that the social side of the hobby is overrated. I'm happy that guys have met good friends at clubs, open houses, or LHSs, but that doesn't always happen, and lots of people have bad experiences with clubs in particular. I don't see that anyone has an obligation to provide a venue for this if they think, with some justice, that it won't work and could well be as unpleasant as the last time they tried it!
My experience is that the social side of the hobby is overrated. I'm happy that guys have met good friends at clubs, open houses, or LHSs, but that doesn't always happen, and lots of people have bad experiences with clubs in particular. I don't see that anyone has an obligation to provide a venue for this if they think, with some justice, that it won't work and could well be as unpleasant as the last time they tried it!
I feel like the comment "the social side of model railroading is overrated" is easy to explain if you tend not to be a social person. Very understandable. I've taken those Meyers-Briggs tests myself for career purposes and am classified in the introvert category. The way I've heard some describe it is if you are an extrovert, you get a charge out of social settings and being social, where as if you are in the introvert category, it tends to be more draining to deal with social settings so you tend to avoid them, or find them less appealing;
Me being more the latter would naturally agree with you that the social side of the hobby is overrated, but I would guess those who are socially inclined (extroverts) would disagree, to be fair. Adding to that, if you are also risk averse, I would tend to to think you would not want to put yourself in a situation, such as hosting an open house, where you might be inviting the possibility of theft or damage to possessions which are, in many cases, expensive and hard to replace.
So my feeling is, if you are inclined, go ahead and share your hobby and layout with as many as you want or can, even promote the hobby; and of course, take wise and common sense precautions to minimize problems, where possible. But of course there is no obligation. I know some would "imply", for example that there is a moral obligation to do some things in the hobby, such as support your LHS or have open houses etc. I would disagree with this, however, I understand it's certainly any ones choice to do either or both and more power to you if you do. Not everyone is cut out, either financially or socially to support the hobby in these ways.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Ummm, JaBear, let's be fair about this. If you read through the thread, I believe that it was Howard who brought the topic up first about "without new folks, the hobby will eventually go south".
Gee whizz! Let’s try and turn Howards handy hints for open home security into a “the Hobby is dying” thread.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
My experience is that the social side of the hoby is overrated. I'm happy that guys have met good friends at clubs, open houses, or LHSs, but that doesn't always happen, and lots of people have bad experiences with clubs in particular. I don't see that anyone has an obligation to provide a venue for this if they think, with some justice, that it won't work and could well be as unpleasant as the last time they tried it!
I also agree with those who don't feel an obligation to the future of the hobby. An exception might be for those who have a stable family life and can share the interest with children in the family. But better just to promote the stable family life and let the future of the hobby take care of itself!
carl425 Howard Zane ...the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby. My guess is that age of the average model railroader has been going up over the last 30 years to the point where the vast majority of us are over 60. When is the last time a club had to come up with an excuse to reject another teenage applicant? Also, as was pointed out above, we're not exactly the cool kids that everybody wants to hang out with. All the LHS's are gone. Most of the magazines are gone. The number of manufacturers keeps dwindling. There are many more activities that compete for leisure time. Attrition is going to put an end to the hobby before much longer and there's nothing a few open houses can do to stop it. My plan is to enjoy it while it lasts.
Howard Zane ...the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby.
My guess is that age of the average model railroader has been going up over the last 30 years to the point where the vast majority of us are over 60. When is the last time a club had to come up with an excuse to reject another teenage applicant? Also, as was pointed out above, we're not exactly the cool kids that everybody wants to hang out with. All the LHS's are gone. Most of the magazines are gone. The number of manufacturers keeps dwindling. There are many more activities that compete for leisure time. Attrition is going to put an end to the hobby before much longer and there's nothing a few open houses can do to stop it.
My plan is to enjoy it while it lasts.
I have the misfortune of participating in three hobbies (pasttimes) that are slowly fading into the sunset - - - model railroading, tropical fish breeding, and golf.
My plan is to enjoy these hobbies as long as I can and then so be it.
I feel no responsibility or obligation to the next generation.
carl425 Howard Zane ...the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby. This is a theme that comes up from time to time that I never quite understood. Why is it my (or our) responsibility to insure the future of the hobby? Even if I accept this assumed responsibility, it's not like there is anything I could do about it anyway. My guess is that age of the average model railroader has been going up over the last 30 years to the point where the vast majority of us are over 60. When is the last time a club had to come up with an excuse to reject another teenage applicant? Also, as was pointed out above, we're not exactly the cool kids that everybody wants to hang out with. All the LHS's are gone. Most of the magazines are gone. The number of manufacturers keeps dwindling. There are many more activities that compete for leisure time. Attrition is going to put an end to the hobby before much longer and there's nothing a few open houses can do to stop it. My plan is to enjoy it while it lasts.
This is a theme that comes up from time to time that I never quite understood. Why is it my (or our) responsibility to insure the future of the hobby? Even if I accept this assumed responsibility, it's not like there is anything I could do about it anyway.
We have three father/son members at the club I'm a member of now and if you spend any time trackside you'll see a lot of young faces.
There is lots of young modeler out there(check you tube model railroad videos) but,the real issue is the older "old school" modelers has outdated thinking.. You Tube draws far more new modelers then going to a club's or home open house and being constantly watch like your a common thief.
How can anybody enjoy the layout and the trains knowing they are being watched?
Howard Zane...the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby.
Howard ZaneSome say video and You tube are exciting new people.....I do not buy this as nothing is better than seeing this hobby first hand, and speaking with model rails.
I think kid TV train shows and you tube does far more good then a club's open house where the members won't speak their open house attendees.
The cold fact is a lot of modelers lack people skill or suspects every visitor is bent on ripping them off.
Why bother with an open house??? Open houses, good train shows, and what is left of train stores are the only way we'll get new folks into the hobby. Without new folks, the hobby will eventually go south. Some say video and You tube are exciting new people.....I do not buy this as nothing is better than seeing this hobby first hand, and speaking with model rails.
I too am with Rich. Very few non-modelers have the basic knowledge to appreciate what we do, so why bother with an open house?
Besides, who needs an open house when we have Weekend Photo Fun?
In home visits in the past, we have always had the layout owner free to talk to people, someone to watch the entrance/exit, and a couple of people to keep trains running and to circulate in the crowd.
The club I'm in now doesn't do public open houses -- three other groups in the area have them -- but we do have organized visits from other clubs and interest groups. We haven't had a theft problem that I know of.
Security, such as it is, consists having a low ratio of members to guests. At these op sessions and talk sessions there's a lot of one-to-one contact between the members and guests, and they seem to work out pretty well.
Our operations are probably too complicated to explain to the general public on a "see the trains" walk through, and we have some access issues anyway because of steps and floor space.
There's an interesting column at http://mrhmag.com/magazine/mrh-2014-12-dec/rr_promote-hobby-bah-humbug
Rich wrote:
I might add that, while I have never hosted an open house, I often show my layout to visitors, run trains, and let them run trains. I just have no interest in exposing my layout to possible damage or theft by opening up my house and layout to strangers.
Totally understandable. We each should do what our comfort level tells us. Each of us has unique personal histories, neighborhoods lived in, and personal housing circumstances. There isn't a one size fits all rule here. No one has a duty to do this, but it's great when we can and do.
I certainly also share the layout with friends. You never know. And I do extend invites to select non-model rail groups with a potential interest, now that I'm thinking about it. I invited the local Maker Space people over, although they haven't taken me up on it yet.
BRAKIE mlehman Larry, If you're real worried about things like that, then Rich's option might be best.
mlehman Larry, If you're real worried about things like that, then Rich's option might be best.