Paradoxically, location may be less important than it formerly was. I'm not saying it's unimportant, just that things have changed.
In the past, you really needed as high-visibility a location as you could afford. You had two basic methods of advertising -- the Yellow Pages and hobby publications. So visibility was key to getting folks in the door.
With the internet, people can find you much easier. If they do even the most casual of searches, your shop SHOULD come up along with all the usual info now at one's fingertips.
So I would argue high-traffic count is less important than it formerly was. Don't pay a premium to get good numbers, because most of your potential customers are unlikely to drive by anyway.
Things like parking and perceptions of a secure nieghborhood remain important, as does a non-leaky roof, reasonable utilities, etc. But the attention that high traffic counts used to have can slide in importance. An affordable rent may be more easily obtained for space elsewhere, but accessible. That's one trade-off that is likely fairly safe to make that could help make a shop viable.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Soo Line fan A LHS? I couldn't think of a worse investment.
A LHS? I couldn't think of a worse investment.
Alton Junction
mlehman Paradoxically, location may be less important than it formerly was. I'm not saying it's unimportant, just that things have changed. In the past, you really needed as high-visibility a location as you could afford. You had two basic methods of advertising -- the Yellow Pages and hobby publications. So visibility was key to getting folks in the door. With the internet, people can find you much easier. If they do even the most casual of searches, your shop SHOULD come up along with all the usual info now at one's fingertips. So I would argue high-traffic count is less important than it formerly was. Don't pay a premium to get good numbers, because most of your potential customers are unlikely to drive by anyway. Things like parking and perceptions of a secure nieghborhood remain important, as does a non-leaky roof, reasonable utilities, etc. But the attention that high traffic counts used to have can slide in importance. An affordable rent may be more easily obtained for space elsewhere, but accessible. That's one trade-off that is likely fairly safe to make that could help make a shop viable.
Mike, you are spot on about the location thing. At least as it relates to being in a "shopping district" verses some other sort of commercial location.
Traditionally, successfull hobby shops and model train stores have been located in "lesser" shopping centers or older "town center" shopping districts where rents are generally less than high profile retail areas like Malls or up scale open "malls".
Having worked in this business, I can tell you that even 30 years ago "walk in" traffic accounted for very little of our business, and the visablity of our location only attracted a few of our customers.
Most people only came to our location to visit our store - then they took their purchases home.
What is more important in my view is not the detailed "type" of location, but the region of the country one selects to be in for this business.
It makes the most sense to be where most of the people are. That targets three/four primary parts of the country - southern California, the upper Mid West, the Mid Atlantic or the North East.
With the last two being where NMRA memberships suggest the most modelers are.
Even with a good web presence, shipping is faster if you are closer to most of your customers - I live in Maryland, I have received orders from Trainworld in New York the next day!
And the likelyhood that people will drive "regionally" to visit your store is increased if you are near more of the people - the area northeast of the Potomac River remains heavily populated, generally has high average incomes, and has weather that lends itself to "winter" indoor hobbies like model trains - and again the NMRA membership numbers support this theory. So does the anecdotal evidence about layout size that has been discussed on here from time to time.
We still have some great train stores here in the Mid Atlantic and North East - most are not located in big cities or expensive suburbs - but a few are.
Many are located in small rural towns, seamingly in the middle of nowhere, but they are actually a reasonable drive from three, four or five "major" population centers.
And people in this part of the country are not generally shy about driving. For exampe a great many people live in southern Pennsylvania and drive to Baltimore every day to work - a distance of 40-50 miles. An equal number of people live in the Baltimore/Annapolis region and drive a similar 40-50 miles to work in Washington DC.
So driving from my house, 22 miles to MB Klein, is just another day around the neighborhood. Or even a trip to Strasburg, Gettysburg or Blue Ridge Summit, all in PA, is no big deal for me.
Blue Ridge Summit? who ever heard of that place? it truely is in the middle of nowhere - Mainline Hobby Supply - great train shop, as is Gillberts in Gettysburg and the Strasburg Train shop.
These are just three examples - we have more in this region......
So I think region means more that "location" as used in the traditional real estate sense. Good retail "locations" are too expensive for this business - generally always have been.
Another secret is to own your own building. Now many MBA types say this is a business no-no these days, but it can be a dramatic reduction in fixed overhead - especially once a property is paid for (part of the orginal secret to success of MB Klein in Baltimore......and still the secret of success to several others in this region)
But what do I know, I've just been self employed most of my life, run several retail businesses, and worked in the hobby/train business - and I don't have an MBA or any other college degree.
Sheldon
Nick Westfall Hey guys, I have been seriously considering looking into opening a hobby store recently but before I do anything I would love to talk to anyone who has owned or worked in one. I would love honest opinions and advice. Thanks guys!
Hey guys, I have been seriously considering looking into opening a hobby store recently but before I do anything I would love to talk to anyone who has owned or worked in one. I would love honest opinions and advice. Thanks guys!
If I may.. I would not even think of opening a hobby shop today unless I had a web page and e-Bay store so,I could have a country wide market instead of depending on walk in customers..
Several years ago I dabble as a part time train show dealer (I did 4 or 5 of the larger shows a year) and made money at it.
What I should have done was bought quality collections and estates instead of buying my stock through a distributor.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRALMany are located in small rural towns, seamingly in the middle of nowhere, but they are actually a reasonable drive from three, four or five "major" population centers.
I can vouch for that..
Back in the 90s I went to a well stocked hobby shop located South of Lima in the middle of no where in a rebuilt 2 car garage that offered a nice discount at check out based on the total purchase price.This shop was 90% HO with 10% N Scale.
Every Saturday morning the shop was packed with buying customers.
I wish I could find another shop like that.
mlehman Paradoxically, location may be less important than it formerly was. I'm not saying it's unimportant, just that things have changed. In the past, you really needed as high-visibility a location as you could afford. You had two basic methods of advertising -- the Yellow Pages and hobby publications. So visibility was key to getting folks in the door.
For homes, location is everything, for hobby shops, since walk in traffic isn't going to keep your shop in the black and internet/online sales is, location is of course a totally different ballgame. You need really low rent really and high visibility online.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
How do you make a million dollars in the model railroad industry? Start with two million.
According to the Small Business Administration 51% of small businesses close within five years. Consider that.
And if despite all advice you DO open a model train store, my first advice is KEEP IT CLEAN. I've been in too many shops that smelled of mildew, or worse! Nobody wants to shop in a store where you're afraid to brush up against the displays!
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
What kind of hobby shop? Strictly trains? Or will you be doing other stuff.
A lot of train shops around here have gone under. We do have a couple of hobby shops that seem to be doing well. But one of them seems to get most of its business in the RC plane/car section. They also established an internet presence early on. The other has a large section of crafts and scrapbooking stuff aimed at women.
Steve S
I think those who have been around a long time, say who are in their 50's and 60's have seen a theme of shops closing over and over in many cities, and the rate at which it has been happening seems to have been accelerating as time has been going by. For those who are much younger, and have not been around long enough to see this pattern, it may be easier to ignore the ominous odds and forge on ahead.
At minimum, it would be wise to gather much data and statistics and weight the weigh it all before sinking your personal credit score, years of time etc. into what is most likely a losing endevour. Do your homework for sure, but probably it's better to work at something which more profitable and enjoy model trains as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby rather than as a money pit and source of stress.
riogrande5761 I think those who have been around a long time, say who are in their 50's and 60's have seen a theme of shops closing over and over in many cities, and the rate at which it has been happening seems to have been accelerating as time has been going by. For those who are much younger, and have not been around long enough to see this pattern, it may be easier to ignore the ominous odds and forge on ahead. At minimum, it would be wise to gather much data and statistics and weight the weigh it all before sinking your personal credit score, years of time etc. into what is most likely a losing endevour. Do your homework for sure, but probably it's better to work at something which more profitable and enjoy model trains as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby rather than as a money pit and source of stress.
When I was 15, in 1972, there were no less than eight full line hobby shops with good train departments and/or model train only shops in the Baltimore metro area.
Today there are only two or three.
The population of the region was about 2 million then - it is nearly 3 million now.
City or suburb, hobby shops and train stores are just not what they use to be.
The hobby has changed, the marketing of the product has changed, and the people have changed.
That is not a "the hobby is dieing" statement - but the hobby has changed dramaticly.
Here is what I think.
The more "serious" practice of the hobby has never been for the "poor" - no different now.
BUT, many with means now participate in the hobby in an "expensive" but "casual" way - less model building, more model collecting.
Those into the serious operation or building aspects of the hobby don't need hobby shops anymore - they are web and mailorder savy, they have clubs or round robin groups and they know their hobby is expensive and time consuming - they are looking to save both.
Shops cannot "stock" inventory like the old days, for a number of reasons, so a big part of the "value added service" of a brick and mortar store is lost.
If I have to wait for stuff to be ordered I may as well order it right from the guy who has it.......
And if I have to pre order, or "buy it now", to get the items I want, again why should I bother with a store? The whole idea of a store is that they "store" things until you need, want or can afford them - without that function, what is the point?
I still think "mega stores" can do well in this business - but the corner mom and pop - bad idea.
So do we have any takers on my 10 million dollar investment deal to open the mega store?
ATLANTIC CENTRALI still think "mega stores" can do well in this business - but the corner mom and pop - bad idea. So do we have any takers on my 10 million dollar investment deal to open the mega store? Sheldon
I never stayed in one city that long to watch shop metamorphasis over such a long period like that.
Anyway, there are some mega stores out there doing business in a big way and making black ink that way which is a good thing. Of course the original poster isn't in that category from what I can tell. He is in the "mom and pop - bad idea" category. Hand writing is on the wall - die is cast, etc. Tea leave readings do not tell a good story. Best to listen to wise council.