doctorwayne richhotrain I blame it on plastic wheels.... jjdamnit ....Some of my "vintage" rolling stock had plastic wheels from the '70's that I just upgraded to metal. I suspect that these "vintage" plastic wheels contributed to the condition of the track- -that black gunk being described..... The majority of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, so I doubt very much that they're the source of the problem, although they may exacerbate the effects of something else - dust, fr'instance. Wayne
richhotrain I blame it on plastic wheels....
jjdamnit ....Some of my "vintage" rolling stock had plastic wheels from the '70's that I just upgraded to metal. I suspect that these "vintage" plastic wheels contributed to the condition of the track- -that black gunk being described.....
The majority of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, so I doubt very much that they're the source of the problem, although they may exacerbate the effects of something else - dust, fr'instance.
Wayne
Wayne,
Your post is why after getting my first CMX machine over 25yrs ago and many experiments later, I now have two CMX machines filled with lacquer thinner and push them around the layout, rather than push them. Theory being...It takes two engines to push or pull, if I'm pulling it, the engines are going through the dust dirt build-up first and just spreading it around, including what was just cleaned. My plastic wheels, which I have many, I took the trucks off and cleaned them in DNA with a brass stiff bristle brush and found out it was not oxide, it was pulverised dust accumulation. Unfortunately, there really is not much one can do about dust, You can control it, but almost impossible to eliminate it, unless Your environment was a bio-chemical room.
MEL,
Bakersfield?? You may keep it, with My kindess regards. Dust, sand mixed with smog. Drove through there many times, in My truck day's. The only good part...there was a truck-stop there that was the talk of the CB radios. Waitress's wore short skirts and had to step up one step behind the counter to get the food from the kitchen.......You get the idea!! Very rarelly was there any stools open at the counter. LOL
Have a Good Evening All and be Happy in Your track cleaning!
Frank
My observation of black gunk on the tracks is that is has a certain moisture content to it. Its not dry and flakey like dust, but has some sort of oily component to it.
Its either previous track cleaning attempts not totally dried or wiped off, or its some sort of lubricant from a locomotive getting spread around. It only takes one over lubed loco to cause the problem, with the other 30 simply spreading it around later. Then the dust sticks to the rails.
I can't see how either plastic or metal wheels have anything to do with creating the gunk, but I'm no chemist.
Just my two cents.
- Douglas
richhotrainI blame it on plastic wheels....
jjdamnit....Some of my "vintage" rolling stock had plastic wheels from the '70's that I just upgraded to metal. I suspect that these "vintage" plastic wheels contributed to the condition of the track- -that black gunk being described.....
jjdamnit In one of the many discussions on track cleaning one person glowingly recommended Aero-Car Hobby Lubricants ACT-6006 Track & Rail Cleaner. I picked up a bottle. On the sections that I've used this product; just over a week now, I've had no recurrence of dirty track. Not sure if it's the track cleaning solution, the metal wheels or a combination of both. This product also touts that it improves electrical contact without leaving a slippery residue. Eventhough I only used this product on a few portions of trackage I've noticed better performance on the entire pike. Again, I'm not sure if this increase in performance is due to this product or because of the cleaner rails- -time will tell but so far so good. Hope this helps.
In one of the many discussions on track cleaning one person glowingly recommended Aero-Car Hobby Lubricants ACT-6006 Track & Rail Cleaner. I picked up a bottle.
On the sections that I've used this product; just over a week now, I've had no recurrence of dirty track. Not sure if it's the track cleaning solution, the metal wheels or a combination of both.
This product also touts that it improves electrical contact without leaving a slippery residue. Eventhough I only used this product on a few portions of trackage I've noticed better performance on the entire pike. Again, I'm not sure if this increase in performance is due to this product or because of the cleaner rails- -time will tell but so far so good.
Hope this helps.
Might that be me? I've used this stuff for at least 10 years on my DCC layout and usually do not see any degradation in slow speed/sound performance between spot applications (about once a year or longer). I also do not operate my railroad as often as I'd like and things may sit silent for weeks or months at a time, but when I fire up my steamers, they all run without a hitch.
This was not always the case in the past when I was using 90% isopropyl alcohol to clean nickel silver rail.
Needless to say my bottle of ACT-6006 has been around a long time and may well last my lifetime.
Again, ACT is good stuff. I recommend it if you have the opportunity to buy.
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
Hello All,
I've tried many chemical methods of track cleaning (short of Gleaming). In my case all of them had short term success of a few hours to a few days.
Some of my "vintage" rolling stock had plastic wheels from the '70's that I just upgraded to metal. I suspect that these "vintage" plastic wheels contributed to the condition of the track- -that black gunk being described.
This product also touts that it improves electrical contact without leaving a slippery residue. Eventhough I only used this product on a few sections of trackage I've noticed better performance on the entire pike. Again, I'm not sure if this increase in performance is due to this product or because of the cleaner rails- -time will tell but so far so good.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
zstripe That's like asking why rust does not cover the whole area. Rust is also caused by oxidation.
That's like asking why rust does not cover the whole area. Rust is also caused by oxidation.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks for all the great replies! I think I am going to try the masonite as I have a box car and gondola modified to drag a cleaning pad. I also bought some "Pacer Technology, ZAP Rail-Zip 2" This is supposed to clean the rails and leave a coating to prevent more oxide.
Cleaning the wheels on 200+ pieces of rolling stock will be a real challenge. I'll probably start with CRC electronics cleaner.
What I remember about brass rail was the green oxide that had to be cleaned off.
Having a finished basement would be great. But I am building my layout on a budget and I'd rather spend the money on train stuff.
South Penn
I blame it on plastic wheels. I used to have no end of black gunk on the rails and on the metal wheels of my locomotives. I converted all of my roling stock from plastic wheels to metal wheels, cleaned all of my loco wheels, and the problem essentially stopped and went away.
It was conductive on brass also...but it got to a point that there was too thick of a layer on the brass, more frequently than NS, so cleaning was a constant need. Brass is a better conductor of electric current than NS, but a softer alloy. The advertising/marketing took advantage of the fact that You have to clean brass, more often..not that's it's so much better. I had an all brass code100 layout for quite a few yrs. and just used a weighted masonite drag car running all the time in a homemade arrangement in a Gondola...had to clean the pad's a lot though...but it worked.
My way works for Me....that's all I am concerned about and I also am a DC user.
Take Care!
Every one has their methods. In the past I have used alcohol on a rag. Alcohol has the benefit of evaporating clean off leaving nothing behind. Now I use Goo gone on a rag. My track (nickel silver) only needs cleaning once a year or so. I never noticed any residue left on the rail. Be aware, if you have crud on your rails, your wheels will pick it up. To be really effective, you want to clean the wheels on your fleet so that they won't tranfer crud back to your freshly cleaned rail. Lots of people, going way back, have put a little oil (Wahl's hair clipper oil, WD-40, automatic transmission fluid, and other things) on their track and swear by the results. I don't oil my track and everything works well for me. Other's clean with lacquer thinner. Be aware that lacquer thinner is active enough to soften plastic, so you want to avoid dousing the plastic tie strip with it lest the little plastic spikes dissolve and let the rail spring free.
And Jabear has it right, the search engine built into this website is feeble. Google gives much better results.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
zstripeIn really simple terms: Oxidation. It was worse on Brass track..really black, compared to NS track. All metal alloys, are affected by it. From an old amateur chemist, who actually read books in school. LOL
I remember being told years ago that the major advantage of NS over brass was that the NS oxide was conductive and the brass oxide was not. If this is true (and I don't know because I didn't read my chemistry books) wouldn't that point to something other than oxide as the problem of dirty track?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I use to have the same problem with the black goo on my track, so I tryed some Woodland Scenics Dust Monkeys guess what no more black GOO..!!.I don't half to clean any wheels on my cars just my locos onec in a while.But you do half to clean the dust monkeys with some isopropy alcohol.
I don't have a build-up of black gunk or goo on my rails, but if I drag my finger along the rail top, it does pick up some blackness. However, the trains run just fine, with no stuttering or stalling. I clean track after ballasting or adding scenery near the tracks, but other than that, don't.
I do, however, have a mostly-finished train room and keep it clean, vacuuming the bare conrete floor and, every year or two, the layout itself. It probably also helps that my layout is DC-powered, so not as finicky as a DCC one with lights and sound, where every otherwise unnoticeable interruption of power is emphasised by flickering lights or loss of sound.
richhotrain I think that LION's explanation makes more sense than zstripe's, particularly because small streaks of the black gunk are built up on the rails, not just thin flat areas of black. Rich
I think that LION's explanation makes more sense than zstripe's, particularly because small streaks of the black gunk are built up on the rails, not just thin flat areas of black.
Maybe it's more dirt falling from Your unfinished ceiling more so in some area's, more than other's...I doubt very seriously it is caused by arcing.
I'll keep My plastic wheels and keep using My CMX cleaning car filled with lacquer thinner and push it around the tracks about every five months and forget about it.
Have A Good One!
That's like asking why rust does not cover the whole area. Rust is also caused by oxidation. Aluminum will also oxidize and black will come off, when rubbed with a damp cloth.
If we, on our model railroads, had the amount of weight, that is associated with 1:1 equipment running on the rails, there would be no need to clean the track, because the rails/wheels would be polished from the constant weight and friction polishing them. But let that same track sit unused for a length of time and guess what? Rust will form on the top of the rail too, not only on the sides of it.
richhotrain If the explanation is as simple as oxidation, why isn't the entire length of the rail black instead of small streaks of the stuff? Rich
If the explanation is as simple as oxidation, why isn't the entire length of the rail black instead of small streaks of the stuff?
Maybe that is where the arcs occur.
LION has conqured the problem with 48 wheel pick-up on his trains. Now him doesn't even bother to wire the switches and crossings anymore. Train rolls right across them.
ROARING
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
In really simple terms: Oxidation. It was worse on Brass track..really black, compared to NS track. All metal alloys, are affected by it. From an old amateur chemist, who actually read books in school. LOL
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryglossary/g/Oxidation-Definition.htm
Figuring out how to clean the rails is a lot easier than figuring out the source of the black gunk. I still cannot figure out what it is.
Do not use Oils, Sand paper or GOO GONE on the rails. Do use Isopropal Alcohol applied with a rag wrapped around your finger and don't leave any residue behind. Make a couple of slider cars with masonite pads and run one in each train. Clean the pads with fine sandpaper. you will be surprised how much crud those pads pick up from the rails.
WD-40 on a soft cloth around your fingers works the best. Dont use abrasives !!!!!!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
It may be caused by arcing of the locomotive pickup wheels. Despite what some of the local "know it all" types will tell you, I don't think abrasive cleaners really hurt the track that much. Especially if you use a fine grit like emory polishing paper.
But then, what do I know. I have only been at this for 55 years.
I try to stay away from Goo-gone since it leaves a sticky film on the rails that attracts dust.
My best luck is to use a soft piece of cloth, some cheap lacquer thinner, and a bit of elbow grease.
You will get a lot of different ideas on this since different things work for different people. One indisputable fact though, if you have a clean environment for your model railroad then you will have less cleaning to do. Otherwise, you are always fighting the crud on the rails. Kind of like having a diet soda with your giant candy bar.
Charlie
Sorry if this has been covered before, but I cannot find a way to search the forums. I also cannot find a way to enable rich text.
Anyway, the rails on my layout get this black goo ( for the lack of a better word ) on them. You can't see it, but if you run your finger along the rails, it comes off on your finger. It is a real pain to try to clean. I've tried commercial cleaners, Goo Gone, and rubbing alcohol. I even used 400 grit sandpaper.
I thought the black goo was comming from the plastic wheels on my rolling stock. So over the last few months, I replaced all the wheels with metal ones. I still get the black goo.
Any ideas on what is causing the black goo and how to clean it?
Thanks,