What people fail to understand, is that unless the item is new and the shipper has in his pocession the original bill of sale from a legitimate retail outlet, AND it matches the declared value on the customs form, placing ANY value on the customs form is pointless.
IF the package is lost or damaged, the first thing they will ask for is the original bill of sale as proof of the actual value .... and it better match the value placed on the customs form. If you can't do this, the case won't even be considered.
I do a lot of custom train work and regularly ship things back and forth across the border. Seeing as how most of the items are used to begin with, and the original bill of sale from the store is long gone, my clients send it to me as a gift with a value of $50.00 or less. Every one has showed up on my doorstep with no additional charges.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
A few years back, a friend in the U.S. had a DMIR Yellowstone with a broken frame. I sent him a step-by-step procedure to repair it but, unsure of his soldering prowess, he asked if I would repair it. I instructed him to send only the running gear, not the boiler/cab assembly or the tender, and told him the best way to pack it to avoid damage. He shipped it via USPS, and a few days later I received a slip indicating that I had a parcel to pick-up at the post office. When I arrived, I discovered that there was a charge of more than $70.00 for duty. It turned out that he had valued the package at $600.00, even though, as sent, it was probably worth twenty bucks. I was told that I could appeal the charge if I could prove reason to not pay duty, and, after about 3 months of providing evidence, including a CD of a conversation in an on-line train forum, photos of the broken frame, repaired frame, frame on my layout, and the returned frame posed on the current day issue of his local paper, I was finally refunded most of the money. They did retain a $5.00 processing fee for the pleasure of having them screw me around for so long. The whole point was that the value was inflated (the part he sent and the parts he kept were close to worthless once separated, and only gained their original value when re-united).The repair had taken only about five minutes. The part which bugged me most, though, was that, like almost all government "services" in Canada, I was not allowed to see a Customs Agent in-person: a quick look at the broken frame and the on-line discussion would have cleared it up in 10 minutes. Furthermore, the agent with whom I dealt over the 'phone did not have a working command of the English language nor much idea at all of the concept of common courtesy which I extended and expected in return. I did write a letter to the federal Minister in charge of the Canadian Border Services, complaining of that attitude and asking for the return of my five bucks, but got only a form letter thanking me for bringing it to his attention.
The friend was kind enough to send me a token of appreciation, though, and it's a nice reminder, even though, at the time, the incident was not pleasant. So, if you ever see a photo of a Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range reefer on my southern Ontario layout, you'll know the story behind it:
Here's the partial Yellowstone:
Wayne
Rapido and True-Line are both made in China ....
A couple of the cottage industry type manufacturers in Canada would be Miniatures by Eric (Brass detail parts) and Kaslo Shops (resin shells). Again, these are not a full production manufacturer like Atlas, Athearn, etc.. They are small companies who basically work from home.
richhotrain What is the point of all these fees and inspections?
What is the point of all these fees and inspections?
Service for profit. The last time I paid the Customs Brokerage, it was CDN$38.00 on a BLI CDN$420 locomotive. That's getting near 10% of the purchase price. That would be on top of the quoted shipping. Note that I always stipulate that I want it shipped USPS to avoid the customs brokerage fee, but one of the recent shipments didn't end up coming to me that way. It came UPS. GGGrrrrrrrrr....!!
richhotrain Is it an issue of competition with U.S. manufacturers?
Is it an issue of competition with U.S. manufacturers?
All duties are revenue generating, but often the pretext is to help out the domestic markets...protectionism. Cynically, governments are voracious. They want the revenue.
richhotrain Do any Canadian companies manufacture model railroading products? Rich
Do any Canadian companies manufacture model railroading products?
Rich
Yes, Rapido and True Line, or whatever their name is....Sylvan models if I recall, and there are others.
Ulrich:
You are nit picking my friend!
I'm sorry if I sound contrary, but this is what the OP said:
JeremyB ...have you been hit with any duty fees and brokerage fees before...
Trying to separate the duty fees and the brokerage fees is a waste of time. Ultimately you will have to pay them unless you know how to get your order shipped so that you don't have to pay brokerage fees. I believe Walthers smartened up after their brief foray into using an independant shipper who was charging huge additional fees.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
richhotrain What is the point of all these fees and inspections? Is it an issue of competition with U.S. manufacturers? Do any Canadian companies manufacture model railroading products? Rich
There may be a handful of cottage industries, but no major manufacturing in Canada. For that matter, there aren't that many major players in the US either .... thank you China ....
Alton Junction
As Mark has mentioned, the brokerage fees are what really drives up the cost, although adding the HST and the exchange rate on the original purchase doesn't help. I generally have my stuff shipped to a good friend in the U.S., then pick it up when I go to visit. This allows me to get the U.S. shipping rates, or, when it's sometimes offered, free shipping within the U.S. Since I'm down there for a week or more, my duty-free allowance gets it into Canada without further charge, and I always declare fully for Canada Customs - doesn't pay to take chances.
As for NAFTA, that means that our oil, softwood lumber, etc., etc. can head south without tariffs. In return, we get anything made in the U.S. or Mexico duty-free....not the stuff made for American companies in China, though.
rrebell Only way around this is a lot of friends, knew someone who knew someone who crossed the border regularly, bypassed almost everything.
Only way around this is a lot of friends, knew someone who knew someone who crossed the border regularly, bypassed almost everything.
Just don't get pulled into secondary inspection ! Always claim everything you are bringing across the border. I live 45 minutes from the border and regularly make trips to US stores for purchases. I always tell them exactly what I bought and have never been pulled in. It's not worth the risk to try and smuggle it across. You could be subject to fines and even have your car impounded .... and you thought the shipping costs were expensive !!!
last mountain & eastern hogger SO MUCH for NAFTA and FREE TRADE eh? Johnboy out..............
SO MUCH for NAFTA and FREE TRADE eh?
Johnboy out..............
Actually, all that did for us was eliminate any duties that we used to pay on items coming into Canada. Provincial tax is just that - has nothing to do with crossing the border. We pay tax on purchases - period.
The brokerage fees are imposed on us by the shipper - again, nothing to do with crossing the border, that's their fees for processing the paperwork.
Free Trade does not eliminate taxes or the abilities of private organizations to charge for their processing of paperwork.
Thanks for clearing that up mark.
from what I can remember of ordering from walthers. They told me at one time they can't control if it ships through the postal carrier or through a courier. I know when I order my strat o matic games they come through ups and it's 25.00 for shipping including border and brokerage fees. It's a lot of money but you know up front you won't be dinged when your item arrives
If you want to go right by the book, the limit for tax free imports into Canada is $20.00 .... $60.00 if it is marked as a gift. That being said, those are the rules, but it is at the delivery service's descretion to pull those packages for processing, and not all packages are tagged when shipping through the postal system. It's probably not worth the post office's time and effort to process packages valued under $100.00 for the return of their time to do the paperwork.
However, if you ship through a courier (UPS, FedEx, etc.), they process EVERY package for the appropriate fees. Courier services also charge a brokerage fee for this processing which usually averages between $20.00 and $25.00, where-as the postal system only charges $8.00 for processing a package.
IF the package does get processed, there is no duty, but there is the provincial tax (Ontario is 13%) on the value converted to Canadian dollars.
So, if you purchase a $100.00US item and it is shipped via courier, you could easily be looking at nearly $55.00CDN in taxes, currency exchange and brokerage fees, not to mention whatever the seller charged you to ship it !
If you ship it through the postal system, my experience has shown that more often than not, the package shows up in my mailbox with no additional fees.
The postal system uses their own employees to sort the packages, where-as the courier companies don't. They have government employees who's sole job is to inspect EVERY package that comes through their system .... no chance of ever sneaking a package through ....
snjroyMy experience has been the same as Dave's. UPS=additional charges, USPS=no additional charges if less than $100. LHS=no shipping, taxes and sound advice... Cheers. Simon
my local hobby shop doesn't order from walthers anymore, plus he is almost a hour away. I do buy from him but sometimes I need stuff that he can't get so will have to start going through walthers when I need something.
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
bsteel4065 You want to try living in the UK, we have to pay 20% Value Added Tax.
You want to try living in the UK, we have to pay 20% Value Added Tax.
I have a friend that lives in Manchester,UK. I send His parcel's USPS Flat rate Priority Mail, for 12.56 US, Custom's checked, under 5lb's. Would cost Him triple that.
And no I don't need any more friends to ship to.
I found that using USPS is a lot cheaper than the other's.
Take Care!
Frank
richhotrain It never ceases to amaze me that our Canadian friends face so much difficulty with getting delivery, and at a reasonable cost, from just across the border. Why can't it be so much simpler between friends and neighbors? Seriously, can someone give me a good explanation? Rich
It never ceases to amaze me that our Canadian friends face so much difficulty with getting delivery, and at a reasonable cost, from just across the border.
Why can't it be so much simpler between friends and neighbors?
Seriously, can someone give me a good explanation?
My take on this is that Canada Post wants to be a profits organisation.
Jack W.
In the same vein, most items I see listed by Canadian sellers on eBay carry some pretty heafty shipping charges. The US dollar is very strong, worldwide, compounding the expense buying American, just about every where. Living close to the Canadian border some have shipping drops in the US. They are still responsible for paying any tariffs, but all shippers charge way less to ship to New York, instead of Canada.
i agree rich, good to read that walthers has kind of fallen in line with other retailers
Dave - that´s similar to what I have to pay here in Germany when importing from the US -10% duty plus 19% VAT. Fortunately, there is no additional handling charge. With the Euro being underrated as it is at the moment, there is no way I can afford to buy in the US.
IIRC, the OP asked for duty ...
Hi Ulrich:
Unfortunately it's not quite that simple.
The 8% is a handling fee. You also get charged 13% HST (Harmonized Sales Tax).
However, it doesn't stop there. The additional fees that the OP has heard about were not charged by Canada Customs, but instead they were charged by the shipping companies like UPS and FedEx and they were on top of the 8% + 13% charged by the government. As I said in my previous post, for a time Walthers was using a shipping broker that sent Canadian orders through the independant shippers instead of the US Postal Service. That resulted in the excessive handling fees that the OP is asking about.
As an example, the last eBay order I received that was shipped via FedEx cost me $28 in shipping fees. The items were worth about $60 Cdn. Had the seller shipped via USPS First Class as I had requested I would have paid about $12 shipping.
Don't believe everything you read on the web!
Hi Jeremy:
Based on my own experience I believe what you have heard was true for a period of time.
My understanding is that for a short time a few years ago the shipping agent that Walthers was using chose to use a shipping company like UPS or FedEx instead of the US Postal Service. The shipping company charged customs and handling fees on top of what Walthers showed as the cost of shipping on their invoices. The result was exactly what you have heard. Canadian orders were slapped with huge additional fees which were often more than the cost of the goods. I got burned just once. I sent Walthers a message asking what was going on and they replied that they had no control over the additional shipping costs. I sent a message back threatening to stop doing business with them. They had been my main source after the LHS closed its doors.
I believe that they changed their shipping methods after that because my subsequent orders didn't incur the additional charges. Their shipping fees are still no bargain but they seem to have fallen back in line.
One other piece of advice I would offer is to try to avoid making orders for more than $100 Cdn. Canada Customs does not usually charge duties on shipments of less than $100 but if your order is more than $100 you will get charged HST plus a handling fee. If you are ordering more than $100 in goods it might save you some money if you split the order up to keep each shipment to less than $100.
A web search reveals the following information:
Canadian Customs Tariff 2015 tariff item 9503.00.10, valid for Tricycles, scooters, pedal cars and similar wheeled toys; dolls' carriages; dolls; other toys; reduced-size ("scale") models and similar recreational models, working or not; puzzles of all kinds. - Wheeled toys designed to be ridden by children (for example, tricycles, scooters, pedal cars); dolls' carriages
8% customs duty - that´s hardly the same value as the merchandise itself.
hi guys
for the canadian fellas that. Have ordered from walthers before have you been hit with any duty fees and brokerage fees before. I want to place a order at some point today. But have heard stories about the duty being more then what was purchased
look forward to hearing your thoughts
jeremy