I have cinder ballast from Arizona Rock and Scenic Express. When I pass a magnet over samples of these cinders, nearly all the material winds up on the magnet. I have been assured by one supplier that there is no problem using their cinders with DCC. Has anyone had any issue with cinders from either supplier as far as operation on a DCC layout?
I am moving this posting to the Electronics/DCC Forum Area
I've never used the Arizona Rock ballast, but if you thoroughly glue it in place, the fact that particles can be picked up by a magnet should be negated.
Anything magnetic under the loco such as a speaker magnet in the oil tank of a diesel will pickup this stuff.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Maybe do a test strip, glue the ballast, let it cure for at least 30 hours in 55% humidity or less, and then do the magnet test. If you have an unused speaker, pass it over the ballast several times at about the right height. See what the speaker picks up.
The wisdom is to either remove magnetic materials from ballast you intend to use or refrain from its use entirely. If your test suggests otherwise, you have little to lose.
Hi,
I don't have any Arozona ballast and the stuff I have from Scenic Express is probably made by Smith & Sons Ballast in Chardon, Ohio. I have used their limestone (P&O # 50).
I do have cinders from Highball both in fine (N) and a little coarser (HO) I will test some later and update the post.
IMHO the biggest threat to metallic particles in the ballast isn't so much as the magnets picking the stuff up it is the resistance it causes between the rails!
You are effectively making a huge semiconductor by placing a material between the A & B rails (a cathode and anode?) add the length of rail that is ballasted and you will come up with an ohms per foot number that can cause some pretty nasty effects on your locomotives, especially on a DCC system.
Do a sample stretch of isolated track and see if an ohmmeter will respond to it.
Most ballast suppliers are very aware of keeping anything conductive out of their mix. I have had some ballast act like it was magnetized when it was only a static charge.
[Edit] I just passed some samples of the Highball N and HO cinder ballasts over a computer hard drive magnet below a sheet of typing paper. A 1 lb. sample got me a trace of iron particles from the coarser HO ballast and nothing detectable at all from the finer N ballast.
I recently found some 12" wide magnets for holding tools and thought that these would be good for "harvesting" any stray iron particles. You could place paper over the magnet and shape it like a trough. Pass your ballast through the trough and the magnet should grab nearly all of the iron particles as it flows into another container.
Good Luck, Ed
I placed a small amount of ballast on a piece of paper and passed a HO sized speaker over the sample. This was non-bonded ballast. The speaker magnet is rather weak and start to attrack the particles at about 1/8 " from the cinders. I am not concerned about speakers attracking the bonded ballast but rather the actual DCC singnal itself.
There are some iron oxide minerals like magnetite that are very responsive to a magnet but are poor conductors. Real coal cinders may have some of these minerals in them generated from the slag when coal is burned.
I have test the conductivity of both brands of cinders with an ohm meter and they do not conduct electricity.
I would like to know if anyone has used cinders(or Arizona's yard mix) from either supplier on their DCC layout? Arizona's yard mix blend also response to a magnet like their cinders do.
Ed: Thank you for your help. Unfortunately I can not harvest the cinders via your method. Nearly the whole lot of both brands of cinders responds to a magnet.
For what its worth, try using Woodland Scenicks ballast. No issues because it a non-mineral product, therefore has no chance of being picked up by magnets - - or your locomotives. Just saying.
Our club layout has lots of AR&M 'Yard Mix'. It is affixed with W/S glue(diluted Matte Medium). It is glued very solidly and we have not any DCC signal issues (just did an extensive test of the entire system). About the only thing me Kato SD40-2's pick up are spikes, truck/coupler screws, etc. The fuel tank mounted speakers start to rattle when the have 'found' missing parts...
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Sandcounty Ed: Thank you for your help. Unfortunately I can not harvest the cinders via your method. Nearly the whole lot of both brands of cinders responds to a magnet.
Do the harvesting with the magnet AFTER you glue the material in place on the layout. This will pick up anything that's loose and you should be good to go. It's good practice to go over your track with a magnet every now and then anyway.
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