Medina1128 jecorbett I can't create daylight in my basement and wouldn't want to if I could because I don't want to have to wear sunglasses when running my layout. Layout lighting is never going to replicate sunlight. I wasn't implying creating daylight in your basement. Flourescent lights come in different temperatures, measured in degrees Kelvin. It closely replicates sunlight, where most standard low temp bulbs do not. That's why when you photograph it with your camera set a daylight, the pictures have a greenish tint to them, whereas incandescent bulbs have a reddish (or orange) cast. I'm happy that you found a color that you're content with. Another thing to consider is the color of your primer. If you spray a light colored primer, your final coat will look totally different if you use a dark primer with the same color final coat.
jecorbett I can't create daylight in my basement and wouldn't want to if I could because I don't want to have to wear sunglasses when running my layout. Layout lighting is never going to replicate sunlight.
I wasn't implying creating daylight in your basement. Flourescent lights come in different temperatures, measured in degrees Kelvin. It closely replicates sunlight, where most standard low temp bulbs do not. That's why when you photograph it with your camera set a daylight, the pictures have a greenish tint to them, whereas incandescent bulbs have a reddish (or orange) cast. I'm happy that you found a color that you're content with. Another thing to consider is the color of your primer. If you spray a light colored primer, your final coat will look totally different if you use a dark primer with the same color final coat.
Most of my lighting is fluorescent fixtures with daylight bulbs. I have begun gradually replacing these with LED floodlights but I had all fluorescents when I experimented with the Scalecoat Pullman Green and got such disappointing results.
Before settling on the Rustoleum Camoflage paint, I created my own paint chips with small squares of styrene. I had two greens I wanted to try. I created 3 chips for each. One with black undercoat, one with gray primer, and when with plain white styrene. I then painted these with the greens. I honestly couldn't tell the difference in color. Each of the 3 chips came out looking pretty much the same. I think with a lighter color, the color of the base coat my show through but both the greens pretty much canceled out whatever the base color was.
NP2626 jecorbett I think i have found what I was looking for thanks to a suggestion by David Starr. Rustoleum's Camoflage paint turned out to be a very close match to the green on my Walthers and Branchline heavyweight cars. To be a perfect match, it would need to be a shade or two darker, but I can live with it as is. I had my doubts because the cap color is even more drab than I wanted, almost grayish in tint, but the paint itself has just enough drab olive tint to be acceptable. By contrast, The Liquitex green I bought at Michael's arts and crafts store was just too vivid green, even more so than the cap color. It cost $12 a can but it won't go to waste because I have a non MR project that I can put it to use on. Thanks to all for the suggestions. PS When I get a car painted, I will try to post some side-by-side pictures with a Walthers heavyweight so others can see how close a match it is. I discovered over the weekend the USB cable for my camera is damaged but if I can find my old 5 MP camera and cable I will swap the card from my 16 MP camera and try to use that to upload the pictures. Wouldn't the Rustolium O.D. be a flat color?
jecorbett I think i have found what I was looking for thanks to a suggestion by David Starr. Rustoleum's Camoflage paint turned out to be a very close match to the green on my Walthers and Branchline heavyweight cars. To be a perfect match, it would need to be a shade or two darker, but I can live with it as is. I had my doubts because the cap color is even more drab than I wanted, almost grayish in tint, but the paint itself has just enough drab olive tint to be acceptable. By contrast, The Liquitex green I bought at Michael's arts and crafts store was just too vivid green, even more so than the cap color. It cost $12 a can but it won't go to waste because I have a non MR project that I can put it to use on. Thanks to all for the suggestions. PS When I get a car painted, I will try to post some side-by-side pictures with a Walthers heavyweight so others can see how close a match it is. I discovered over the weekend the USB cable for my camera is damaged but if I can find my old 5 MP camera and cable I will swap the card from my 16 MP camera and try to use that to upload the pictures.
I think i have found what I was looking for thanks to a suggestion by David Starr. Rustoleum's Camoflage paint turned out to be a very close match to the green on my Walthers and Branchline heavyweight cars. To be a perfect match, it would need to be a shade or two darker, but I can live with it as is. I had my doubts because the cap color is even more drab than I wanted, almost grayish in tint, but the paint itself has just enough drab olive tint to be acceptable. By contrast, The Liquitex green I bought at Michael's arts and crafts store was just too vivid green, even more so than the cap color. It cost $12 a can but it won't go to waste because I have a non MR project that I can put it to use on. Thanks to all for the suggestions.
PS When I get a car painted, I will try to post some side-by-side pictures with a Walthers heavyweight so others can see how close a match it is. I discovered over the weekend the USB cable for my camera is damaged but if I can find my old 5 MP camera and cable I will swap the card from my 16 MP camera and try to use that to upload the pictures.
Wouldn't the Rustolium O.D. be a flat color?
Yes, it is a very flat color but that's OK. My RTR cars have a fairly flat finish as well. Besides many heavyweight coaches ended up in commuter service after having been in use on long distance trains. That's the story on my RR so a flat finish and a fleet of cars that look like they've seen better days is just the look I'm going for.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
jecorbettI can't create daylight in my basement and wouldn't want to if I could because I don't want to have to wear sunglasses when running my layout. Layout lighting is never going to replicate sunlight.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 As Mr. Bernier mentioned, maybe you need to upgrade your lighting. As a photography major, one of the proplems we run into as modelers, is lighting. When choosing a paint, keep the following in mind: What type of lighting do you have in your layout room? What type of lighting is at the paint store? Take a car that's already Pullman green with you to the paint store. If you have tungsten lighting, and they have flourescent lighting at the paint store, it will look totally different. If you have daylight flourescent lighting, take some of the paint chips from the paint store outside and make your selection.
As Mr. Bernier mentioned, maybe you need to upgrade your lighting. As a photography major, one of the proplems we run into as modelers, is lighting. When choosing a paint, keep the following in mind:
Take a car that's already Pullman green with you to the paint store. If you have tungsten lighting, and they have flourescent lighting at the paint store, it will look totally different. If you have daylight flourescent lighting, take some of the paint chips from the paint store outside and make your selection.
The problem isn't my lighting, it was the paint I tried. All the RTR cars in my fleet look green. The one I painted with Scalecoat Pullman Green and later Brunswick Green appeared black. If the problem was my lighting, they would all appear too dark. I have ample lighting. I can't create daylight in my basement and wouldn't want to if I could because I don't want to have to wear sunglasses when running my layout. Layout lighting is never going to replicate sunlight. It is much cheaper and more practical to match colors to the lighting rather than vice versa. What I needed to do was find a paint that would closely replicate the RTR heavyweight cars. I believe I have done that. It isn't perfect match but it certainly looks far more realistic than the Pullman Green paint I started with.
Well I'm not a big fan of rattle can spray paint for Models.....so I won't get into that.....It does have it's use's....just not what I build.
Something to read through....scroll down to Color Context:
http://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/basic-color-theory
Good Luck!
Frank
zstripe Joel, I totally agree with You, about what He is starting out with as a base color to put the desired color on.....makes all the difference in the world as to the final shade of the same color. Experiment... Take Care! Frank
Joel,
I totally agree with You, about what He is starting out with as a base color to put the desired color on.....makes all the difference in the world as to the final shade of the same color.
Experiment...
Take Care!
I can certainly understand how the base color could influence what shade of color I would get. I would expect to get a darker shade of green painting over black than I would with a white or gray primer base coat. But I didn't get a dark shade of green. I got black. I got that using both Scalecoat Pullman Green as well as Brunswick Green. An earlier poster wrote that his experience is that Brunswick Green is very close to black which led me to wonder whether the can of Pullman Green I got was a can of Brunswick Green that had been mislabeled.
Today I picked up two different cans of spray paint that might turn out to be close to what I want based on the cap color. One I got at Michael's, an arts and crafts store. The brand name is Liquitex and the color is Hooker's Green (I didn't make that up). In the store light, it looked close but might be a little too green. The other I got at Lowe's and is Rustoleun's Camoflage. It might be a little too drab. The only way to find out for sure is to try them with different backgrounds. I will paint each over black, white, and gray as well as over each other and hopefully get something acceptable.
The Scalecoat Pullman Green is gone. I can't remember if I used it for some other purpose or whether I was so disgusted with the color I got I didn't both to clear the nozzle after use and ended up throwing it out. Since I didn't get what I wanted with it the first time, I see no reason to try it again. They don't give that stuff away.
zstripe You should be able to find a suitable or exact match for the color You are looking for......don't by no mean's get hung up on a Railroad color name....a paint MFG. may have the exact color that You seek, but with a different color name. I have been using Tamiya paints for yrs. and many of their colors match, Railroad specific colors, but with different color name's. Large list of colors available. Just because it say's Military color's.....so what! If it matches Your color. Here is a link to Tamiya: http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72#.VQhrZNLF9Pk Take Care! Frank
You should be able to find a suitable or exact match for the color You are looking for......don't by no mean's get hung up on a Railroad color name....a paint MFG. may have the exact color that You seek, but with a different color name. I have been using Tamiya paints for yrs. and many of their colors match, Railroad specific colors, but with different color name's. Large list of colors available. Just because it say's Military color's.....so what! If it matches Your color.
Here is a link to Tamiya:
http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72#.VQhrZNLF9Pk
zstripe,
Agreed that color often bridges across different hobbies and applications. The real question is: What is the color perceived when any paint color is laid on a dark verse light background?
In the OP's case, it is key to know if the outcome was seen as "black" because the plastic color was black, shifting pullman green color to the "dark side" (couldn't resist). Until this question is answered, there will be money and time spent on trying colors that look OK in the bottle, but fail when applied on a dark background.
BTW: Using black as a base color is a modeler's trick to introduce highlighting in a model during the application of the top color coat. By playing with the angle of spray to intentionally not hit all of the crevices, the black color peeks through and also darkens the color being applied to a degree, depending on how thin you apply it. This technique is called "pre-shading".
Finally, background color is most important when applying lighter colors such as yellows. For such "problem colors" true color match to what is in the bottle is acheived when you use a light colored primer or paint directly on light colored plastic (or whatever).
Bottom line for the OP. I would check how your pullman green paint reacts with the dark verse light background or be prepared to buy/try other possibilities hit or miss.
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
Look at military color selections the next time you are in a hobby shop..... I have used dark green in past years, but I do not recall which brand.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
jecorbett Can anyone suggest a rattle can paint for painting heavyweight cars in Pullman Green. I tried Scalecoat's Pullman Green and while I suspect it closely matches the true Pullman Green in outdoor light, it appears as a flat black in my layout lighting. I can't even see a hint of green in it. Ditto for their Brunswick Green. I tried their Southern Green and that is too green as is a number of shades of Tamiya paints I've tried. My heavyweight passenger fleet is a mixed bag of Walthers, Branchline, Athearn, and Bachmann cars. Bachmann is noticeably lighter but the other three are close matches and I would like to find something in that range. I don't need an exact match. Just something reasonably close. I have a number of old coaches from a previous layout in a variety of liveries and I would like to use these to build up a fleet of commuter coaches after painting them and upgrading them with KD 148s, metal wheel sets, diaphragms.
Can anyone suggest a rattle can paint for painting heavyweight cars in Pullman Green. I tried Scalecoat's Pullman Green and while I suspect it closely matches the true Pullman Green in outdoor light, it appears as a flat black in my layout lighting. I can't even see a hint of green in it. Ditto for their Brunswick Green. I tried their Southern Green and that is too green as is a number of shades of Tamiya paints I've tried. My heavyweight passenger fleet is a mixed bag of Walthers, Branchline, Athearn, and Bachmann cars. Bachmann is noticeably lighter but the other three are close matches and I would like to find something in that range. I don't need an exact match. Just something reasonably close. I have a number of old coaches from a previous layout in a variety of liveries and I would like to use these to build up a fleet of commuter coaches after painting them and upgrading them with KD 148s, metal wheel sets, diaphragms.
jecorbert,
I suggest doing a simple experiment with the Scale Coat pullman green paint you already have to see if the perceived final color is because of the bare black plastic you are laying the paint on (as some posters have already alluded to).
Spray one plastic card (or whatever handy) with black paint and another with light grey (or white) paint. Then paint both with your SC pg paint, let dry, and compare the two under your existing lighting in the layout room. What do you see in the comparison?
I have used SC pullman green a number of times on passenger car projects and to my eye under my halogen track lighting, it is a very close match to the pullman green paint used on the Branchline Heavyweight pullman car kits. The caveat is that the cars I started off with were bare light green plastic, NOT black.
I vote for the experiment to save you hunting down (read spending time and money) on other colors that are not formulated to be pullman green.
The best payoff is that you will have another experience in your toolbox to know why things don't work out as expected when it seems they should.
Good luck.
I just used some Tamiya TS-9 British Green to spray a couple of Athearn HW passenger cars. Probably not dark enough for a true Pullman Green; but close enough for what I am doing.
After painting many cars and trucks in my life.....a black primer will dull/darken a color....A light Grey primer will brighten/lighten a color and of course, a white primer will make the same color much lighter.
rrinker Hmm, I have to go dig out my test shell, I painted parts of the inside in Polly Scale and Scalecoat Pullman Green to see which one matched what, but of course most of my stuff is all boxed up still. What color was the car you painted before applying the PG? I painted on an Atls undec RS3, which is grey plastic. If you painted over black plastic with no lighter primer over it, that would darken the results. --Randy
Hmm, I have to go dig out my test shell, I painted parts of the inside in Polly Scale and Scalecoat Pullman Green to see which one matched what, but of course most of my stuff is all boxed up still.
What color was the car you painted before applying the PG? I painted on an Atls undec RS3, which is grey plastic. If you painted over black plastic with no lighter primer over it, that would darken the results.
--Randy
I used the Pullman Green on an undecorated Roundhouse Palace car which was made in black plastic. The car body was almost indistinguishable from the unpainted roof when the paint dried.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Mark R. jecorbett [snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked. Coach green is a LOT lighter than Pullman green .... Mark.
jecorbett [snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.
[snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.
Coach green is a LOT lighter than Pullman green ....
Mark.
Lighter is what I want. I'll find out later if it is too light. That would still be better than black.
In doing some research, I discovered that Santa Fe's heavyweights were not painted Pullman Green but what they called Coach Green. I have heavyweight Santa Fe cars which I relettered from both Walthers and Athearn and if that is the shade I get with Tamiya's Cockpit Green, I will be very happy with it.
gmpullman jecorbett I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black. I wonder how your Scalecoat is drying to a flat black? I thought all Scalecoat paints dry to a high gloss. From their website: All colors dry to a high gloss finish, except Loco Black which dries to a matte finish. I have used Scalecoat I in Tuscan Red and Black and I'm very happy with the results. I have only made a sample chip, brushed, with their Pullman Green but I like the color very much. Ed
jecorbett I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black.
I wonder how your Scalecoat is drying to a flat black? I thought all Scalecoat paints dry to a high gloss.
From their website:
All colors dry to a high gloss finish, except Loco Black which dries to a matte finish.
I have used Scalecoat I in Tuscan Red and Black and I'm very happy with the results. I have only made a sample chip, brushed, with their Pullman Green but I like the color very much.
Ed
I am working from memory here since I repainted the car so it might have been a gloss black. Whether it was gloss or flat, it looked black, not green. It closely matched the black roof of the heavyweight car.
Another option to consider is Modelflex Pullmann Green. Your original note says you are looking for a spray can, but I found that Modelflex brushes on very nicely. My first DIY paint job on an undec PA1 diesel was Modelflex brushed on with a soft camel hair brush. No brush marks, no covering of the rivet detail.
George V.
I re-painted some Athearn cars that where Santa Fe cars with Floquil Pullman Green, so I could re-decal in Northen Pacific livery. Floquils Pullman Green was a lighter green than what Athearn used to paint the cars with originally. However, both colors looked green under my lighting. I would say that what Athearn used on the cars looked similar to Mark R.'s photo of a paasenger car.
I'm finding this discussion timely as I'm about to paint a bunch passenger cars.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mark R. Pullman green is quite dark .... Trouble is, when observed in the subdued lighting of our train room, it looks even darker. That's why the majority of model companies use lighter hues than the proto-type so the color looks more correct on our layouts. I've found that problem numerous times using TruColor paint. Their paints are formulated to match the proto-type when new. This doesn't always translate very well to our model world. I am constantly tweaking colors so they look good indoors. Mark.
Pullman green is quite dark ....
Trouble is, when observed in the subdued lighting of our train room, it looks even darker. That's why the majority of model companies use lighter hues than the proto-type so the color looks more correct on our layouts.
I've found that problem numerous times using TruColor paint. Their paints are formulated to match the proto-type when new. This doesn't always translate very well to our model world. I am constantly tweaking colors so they look good indoors.
What you are saying doesn't surprise me at all given my experience. I actually would prefer something a little lighter rather than fidelity to the prototype. I know that some lighting is supposed to mimic daylight but how true can that actually be. If we really could do that, we would probably need to wear sunglasses in our train rooms. Indoor lighting is just not going to replicate sunlight.
The shade that looks most correct to me is the one used by both Walthers and Branchline. I can't tell them apart without looking really close and I have one train that has a mix of both types of cars. If I could find a rattle can paint close to either one of those, I wouldn't care how close it is to the prototype.
The photo you posted shows a very dark shade of green but you can still tell it is green. The Scalecoat Pullman Green I used I don't think would be distinguishable from the black roof. It almost isn't in your photo and with indoor lighting, I'll bet it would look like a solid black car.
wojosa31 For what it's worth, there was a discussion concerning Pullman Green recently on the Passenger Car Yahoo Forum. Generally, it is difficult to "match" colors used by different manufacturers. I have Walthers B&O cars made in different runs that noticably differ, when the cars are coupled together. Since Floquil and Poly Scale went off the Market, the problem is magnified. My guess is that the Floquil Pullman Green is a close match for Branchline Pullmans, assuming you can still find it. Coincidently, I have been looking for an almost black, glossy, Pullman Green, similar to the appearance of the Southern Railway Office Cars and HW coaches stored at Washington, DC terminal in the 1970s. From what has been related in this thread, perhaps Scalecoat II Pullman Green is what I am looking for.
For what it's worth, there was a discussion concerning Pullman Green recently on the Passenger Car Yahoo Forum.
Generally, it is difficult to "match" colors used by different manufacturers. I have Walthers B&O cars made in different runs that noticably differ, when the cars are coupled together. Since Floquil and Poly Scale went off the Market, the problem is magnified. My guess is that the Floquil Pullman Green is a close match for Branchline Pullmans, assuming you can still find it.
Coincidently, I have been looking for an almost black, glossy, Pullman Green, similar to the appearance of the Southern Railway Office Cars and HW coaches stored at Washington, DC terminal in the 1970s. From what has been related in this thread, perhaps Scalecoat II Pullman Green is what I am looking for.
Based on what others have said in this thread, I am wondering if the Scalecoat Pullman Green I tried was really Brunswick Green that had been mislabeled. I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black. I couldn't tell them apart and I would never have guessed either was a shade of green had the can not been labeled that way.
I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.