Has anyone used Bowser wheel sets? Metal needle point axels and bright treads, maybe can fill in, until Walther decides what they're going to do with the P2K wheel sets.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Kadees used to be good enough for me but since the metal axle wheelsets came out (and were tested by me), I think I will slowly switch over to them. Inter Mountain seem to be good to me. I was about to order some shorter axle lengths to free up the rolling characteristics so my Trackmobile can reliably pull 3 Hi cubes but then I found out I could bend the plastic (Athearn) side frames a bit so the cars roll a lot more freely...no more waiting for custom length axles to arrive (as long as there isn't too big of an adjustment needed). I have a truck tuner but I think it's too short...I have to squeeze the side frames really hard (to the point of making my fingertips hurt) just to make contact, and even then, it doesn't seem to do anything (no shavings, no improvement in rolling resistance). All, well most, of the newer models have free rolling trucks but $7 for an old Athearn Hi Cube vs. $30 for a new Walthers one (even though the details and printing are better) is a price hard to beat...with a little bit of work they operate just as good, as long as the cars aren't screwed up by a previous builder...then it just takes a bit longer to fix, not more money.
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
wp8thsub Looks to me like they're standardizing, which makes sense from an inventory perspective.
Looks to me like they're standardizing, which makes sense from an inventory perspective.
Maybe it makes sense, except the finely detailed P2K wheels had a pretty large following!
riogrande5761I ... bought a bulk pack of IMR 33" wheels, however, I have found them to be somewhat "sloppy" in the trucks I've mounted them in - Walthers, E&C, MDC, etc. rolling stock which came with plastic wheels originally.
Some of the older plastic trucks were intended to use longer axles, or with fatter axles having a broader cone shape at the end rather than a "needle point" configuration. I've had good luck with IMR wheelsets in most trucks (inlcuding MDC), but they seem too short to work well in Athearn blue box era roller bearing trucks.
Above are current product photos for the former Proto 2000 Barber S2 100-ton roller bearing http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-2002 and 50-ton spring plankless http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-2000 trucks. As of right now both show as in stock. Notice anything? Both of these, as well as other P2K trucks in stock, have the newer Walthers machined wheelsets, not the original cast P2K versions (the flat backs and metal axles give them away). All of the product listings for trucks with the old Proto cast wheels, as well as the wheels themselves, show as out of stock with no expected re-stock date. For a time, Walthers used machined wheels on plastic axles on their RTR cars. These are also now shown as out of stock with no expected date.
All of the current Walthers cars I've seen have machined wheels with metal axles, regardless of the product line. Wheels used to vary between lines (including plastic on the Trainline cars), but no more. Looks to me like they're standardizing, which makes sense from an inventory perspective.
Rob Spangler
I guess I need to wait and see what shakes out!
NP2626 I just did a google search for Walthers Proto 2000 Wheel Sets. I've also looked through the inventories of both Walthers and Model Trains Stuff and it appears the P2K line of wheel sets has been discontinued. Walthers offers Cornerstone wheels which are no where as detailed as the P2K wheels. Unless I hear otherwise, I guess the 600 or so P2K wheel sets I've purchased over the last 15 years wasn't enough to keep a great product from being phased out! I probably only need another 10 packages of 12 wheel each to complete my inventory of rolling stock, too. Does anyone have any information on this?
I just did a google search for Walthers Proto 2000 Wheel Sets. I've also looked through the inventories of both Walthers and Model Trains Stuff and it appears the P2K line of wheel sets has been discontinued. Walthers offers Cornerstone wheels which are no where as detailed as the P2K wheels.
Unless I hear otherwise, I guess the 600 or so P2K wheel sets I've purchased over the last 15 years wasn't enough to keep a great product from being phased out! I probably only need another 10 packages of 12 wheel each to complete my inventory of rolling stock, too.
Does anyone have any information on this?
That explains why I didn't see them at my LHS last week when I went shopping for them. I ended up getting a pack of Intermountain wheelsets instead. They were a couple dollars more expensive than what I remembered paying for P2Ks last time.
I've become almost as snooty about wheelsets as I am about couplers. They have to be top drawer. Plastic ones get automatically replaced. Metal ones are given a chance to perform. If they don't cause problems they stay. Otherwise they get pitched.
I wonder why Walthers decided to drop these. I bought lots of them and I'm guessing others did as well.
Just recently (Yesterday) there was an advertizement for Walthers truck sets that was to the right of this forum's posts. Now, for the life of me I can't find it! It had many Walthers truck models listed. At Walthers right now, excepting geared wheel sets for Proto 2000 locos, there is not a Walthers truck or wheel set to be had, all show deliveries as "Unknown"!
Sounds like much of the issue, as often is the case with websites, is it comes down to how you do the search. Just the other day someone claimed MBK had sold out of the Tangent X58 box cars; for some reason when they get items in stock and you do a key work search, they don't show up, but if you search a different way, all the newly added items show up, newest first and on down the list. I searched that way and at the time, sure enough there were still plenty in stock.
Athearns website has it's own quirks; if you search an item and it is out of stock, it doesn't show up all, but if you click the "retired items" box, they magically appear. Other websites don't sort items in a way you think they would, like Walthers here - showing up under trucks. Fun and games with searching!
jrbernier I bought lots of P2K wheelsets for $3.99 each at M B Klein(Modeltrainstuff) years ago. When the price went up, I switched to I-M wheelsets. No plastic axle tips, and just as good or better rolling ability. You can buy the 100 count 'bulk packs' on-line for around $70, including free shipping. That is $.70/axle - Beats the Walthers price! Jim
I bought lots of P2K wheelsets for $3.99 each at M B Klein(Modeltrainstuff) years ago. When the price went up, I switched to I-M wheelsets. No plastic axle tips, and just as good or better rolling ability. You can buy the 100 count 'bulk packs' on-line for around $70, including free shipping. That is $.70/axle - Beats the Walthers price!
Jim
I did exactly that and bought a bulk pack of IMR 33" wheels, however, I have found them to be somewhat "sloppy" in the trucks I've mounted them in - Walthers, E&C, MDC, etc. rolling stock which came with plastic wheels originally.
As for Kadee's, years ago a fellow club member had a long train outfitted with them and it had a lot of drag on it. As an experiment, he replaced all the wheelsets with Jaybee (metal axels) and it rolled much more freely. His conclusion at the time was the Kadee plastic axles had more drag, and the cumulative affect over a long train added up significantly.
I've added some blue pack Proto 2000 wheel sets to a few of my cars, and the few I've added do seem to roll very freely and they have been more economical in packs of 12 vs. IMR or a few others.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
A lot of the Walthers stuff is 'not in stock'(like the wheels). I purchased the P2K wheel sets when they were 'cheap' - The price started going up before Walthers bought out the Life-Like line of trains. I then discovered that the axle tips were 'engineering plastic'(like the Kadee wheel sets). As I ran out of the 50 packages of P2K wheel sets I mass-purchased for MB Klein, I had to find a new source. I was aware of the I-M wheel sets(in the blister packs), but unaware of the 'Bulk Pack' boxes of 100 wheel sets that were available. 10 years ago, I could buy a box for $40-50, plus shipping. Currently, I pay $70/box with FREE shipping on eBay. The I-M wheels have metal axle tips and do roll even better than the P2K wheel sets. I use a Micro-Mark 'Truck Tuner' and clean up the truck journal before slipping new wheel sets in a truck. My current combination of replacement trucks is Accurail sideframes with I-M wheel sets. I have over 300 freight cars(mix of P2K and I-M wheel sets). The best rolling ones are Accurail trucks, and I-M wheel sets.
BTW, you can get the I-M wheel sets in both '110' and '88' width treads. I tend to use the wider '110' wheel sets as the club has Atlas code 100 trackage. The narrow wheel sets tend to drop down in the 'ditch' on #6 or #8 frogs!
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Be aware that Reboxx wheels are Code 88 wheels. No where at the Model Train stuff website where Reboxx wheels are shown does it state what wheel width these wheels are. Possibly this is known to other people who use Reboxx wheel sets; but, it was not known by me!
$9.95 for 12 Reboxx wheel sets from Model Train Stuff (M.B. Klein).
NP2626So, I’ll give Reboxx a try. Did you know that Reboxx supplies axle lenths between .965 and 1.075?, meaning there can be as much as .110 difference in the distance between bearing surfaces?
I just recently purchased wheels from Reboxx; 33" with a .965" axle to replace the 'pizza cutter' ones on my Rivarossi Berkshire tender. They are a very high quality wheel set (whoever makes them?) and I will use them (Reboxx) again when I need specific axle lengths. Also, having metal axles as well, they are perfect for power pickup, which I needed on the tender. I believe they were $12 for 12 axles and I still have 6 left.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
CTValleyRR NP2626 Like I said to Dave above, I went through the entire inventory at both venders. I was confused (still am) about the status of these wheel sets. I've also said I sent a query to Walthers about the these wheel sets. A month or so back I bought some packages of the ribbed backs from Model Trains Stuff. I bought out what they had on hand. I hate to spend full price on anything I buy for the model railroad. So my biggest concern is that Model Trains Stuff has dropped these wheels from their inventory. If this is only temporary, I can't say. I can certainly buy another manufacturers products and may indeed do so! Now, granted, they are not in stock with an "Unknown" date for the restock, but when Walthers discontinues a product, that's what the status says, so I must assume that this is a temporary production disruption, not a permanent change.
NP2626 Like I said to Dave above, I went through the entire inventory at both venders. I was confused (still am) about the status of these wheel sets. I've also said I sent a query to Walthers about the these wheel sets. A month or so back I bought some packages of the ribbed backs from Model Trains Stuff. I bought out what they had on hand. I hate to spend full price on anything I buy for the model railroad. So my biggest concern is that Model Trains Stuff has dropped these wheels from their inventory. If this is only temporary, I can't say. I can certainly buy another manufacturers products and may indeed do so!
Like I said to Dave above, I went through the entire inventory at both venders. I was confused (still am) about the status of these wheel sets.
I've also said I sent a query to Walthers about the these wheel sets. A month or so back I bought some packages of the ribbed backs from Model Trains Stuff. I bought out what they had on hand. I hate to spend full price on anything I buy for the model railroad. So my biggest concern is that Model Trains Stuff has dropped these wheels from their inventory. If this is only temporary, I can't say.
I can certainly buy another manufacturers products and may indeed do so!
Now, granted, they are not in stock with an "Unknown" date for the restock, but when Walthers discontinues a product, that's what the status says, so I must assume that this is a temporary production disruption, not a permanent change.
I agree Randy, my P2K wheelsets have worked wonderfully for me. My problem is I need wheels now, so I'm unwilling to wait to see what Walthers is going to do!
Reboxx wheels are, IIRC, custom Intermountains. So if most of your equipment uses the 'standard' size, you can probbaly save some momney using IM wheels, saving the special Reboxx ones for those cars that need special sizes. I've used them a few times, and when you need them, they are great. Even once reported to them a mistake in their charts, when I bought a pack of the recommended size for a particular model and they were way too long - longer than P2K, when the car in question needed shorter than P2k. Since then I just use my caliper to measure and order by size, though they did edit their chart. I do use their truck tuner tool on all my rolling stock - definitely helps things. I also have the same tool from Micro Mark, but it is way shorter - too short to work in Athearn and Accurail trucks.
Hopefully the P2K wheelset situation is temporary, they've served me well over the years. That $3.99 price from Klein's before Walthers bought LL made it cheap to make sure every car had metal wheels. I have considered switching to Intermountain since the club gets a discount on 100 packs through a LHS, and the Intermountain are easier to install resistors fro block detection. For now though I do have a decent inventory of P2K to finish off most of the car kits I have waiting to build. I'm not going to mass change out and remove P2K and replace them, they work perfectly fine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It sounds like you have decided to go with a different type of wheels, and that's fine. But you DIDN'T go through Walther's entire inventory. They are there. Maxman provided the links.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
So, I’ll give Reboxx a try. Did you know that Reboxx supplies axle lenths between .965 and 1.075?, meaning there can be as much as .110 difference in the distance between bearing surfaces?
This is the reason I went with Kadee Wheels.
Walthers was out of them more than they had them.
Price wise catching them on sale the Kadees are about the same price and they are usually in stock.
The Kadee wheels are black so I don't really have to do much to them.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
CTValleyRRI thinksomeone at Walthers screwed up. If you look at the links provided by maxman above, the items are listed under "trucks", not "wheels". Maybe that's why you didn't find them.
I can't speak to the way that Walthers hides them. But when I use that site, I always find it easiest to search if I have the part number (for example 920-21258). And if I'm using the advanced search function, I always make sure that I check the "show all items, regardless of availability" and "include discontinued out of stock products" boxes.
I thinksomeone at Walthers screwed up. If you look at the links provided by maxman above, the items are listed under "trucks", not "wheels". Maybe that's why you didn't find them.
Can't help with the availability, though.
These items are still listed in the Walthers on-line catalog, but are shown as not in stock:
proto2K 36" wheels: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-21257
proto2K 33" smooth back: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-21258
proto2K 33" ribbed back: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-21259
dknelson Keep in mind that in the last year and half Walthers has rationalized and re branded their various lines of trains and I suspect Proto is now reserved for rolling stock, not necessarily stuff they inherited from LifeLike that LifeLike branded as Proto 2000 or whatever. So searching for the word Proto in the Walthers online catalog won't find items that were Proto but aren't any longer. Dave Nelson
Keep in mind that in the last year and half Walthers has rationalized and re branded their various lines of trains and I suspect Proto is now reserved for rolling stock, not necessarily stuff they inherited from LifeLike that LifeLike branded as Proto 2000 or whatever. So searching for the word Proto in the Walthers online catalog won't find items that were Proto but aren't any longer.
Dave Nelson
I'm having a hard time following what your saying here, Dave!
I have looked through both Model Trains Stuff's and Walthers's complete inventory of wheel sets and trucks and did not see any of what I'm after. In fact Walthers trucks appear to have their Cornerstone wheel sets in them now.
I saw that too, I need more than one pack.
An eBay serch for "proto wheels" turned up 2 listings for 33" ribbed back wheels. One listing is a shop in Florida, offering 12/$10.75 with free shipping. He may have other styles in stock as well. I've delt with this seller in the past and have always been pleased.
Now under the name WathersProto, 33" ribbed item #920-21259, 33" flat back 920-21258, 36" flat 920-21257. All three currently o/s at Walthers. They are listed, strangely, under the Couplers & Trucks category..... But, still manufacturing them at least.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.