I can't seem to find the post I (thought?) I put up here yesterday, but I was having a hard time signing in and all so maybe it is lost?I am "new" to model trains (been over 40 years since I put a track together), but I am getting back into it now and want to build something special.I'm trying to figure out how the guys with the small footprint layouts get such large cars (O,G,HO) to make such small turns/curves without looking like an engine too big for it's tracks?Here's a couple of examples of what I want to replicate;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XIGPe5ulRo&index=10&list=PL-elEvQmuQGb4erLrKftxCwh_Vs9KiMEv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHmwhvtgB-Y&index=9&list=PL-elEvQmuQGb4erLrKftxCwh_Vs9KiMEv
Are theswe guys building all of the components (engines/trucks, /trackrails, cars, etc)?How/where do they get the track? are they making it? How do they figure out the radius?Anybody familiar with how these are done, and how I can learn to recreate them?
The two layouts in the videos appear to be both HOe or in North America HOn30. These are small Ho trains running on N scale track or track gauged the same as N scale (9mm).This both a builders scale and there are ready to run trainsets usually of European nature .There is one set that has a small Plymouth loco which looks quite like the tan one in the second video.
Peco makes HOn30 track and turnouts. The ties are slightly larger than N scale and they are spaced further apart. The tie ends are also a bit irregular suggesting a small line/backwoods style of track.
There have been a few HOn30 RTR locomotives and cars produced. This is Walthers listing including discontinued items:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=Hn30&manu=&item=&keywords=&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=300&Submit=Search
The switcher engine in my avatar is HOn30. It is scratch built using a Bachmann N scale 4-4-0 steamer as a drive unit.
You mentioned some of the larger scales. Regardless of the scale, if you are going to have tight curves and you want the layout to look even remotely realistic you will be running short wheel base switchers and short cars. Longer car and locos hang out over the edge of the track in the curves too much so they look toy like. Lots of the longer stuff won't even run on the curves you are contemplating. By the way, there is no law that says your railroad has to look realistic - its your railroad - do what you want.
I believe that part of the effect that you want involves narrow gauge models regardless of scale. As has already been explained, the locos in the videos are likely HOn30. In other words they are HO scale (1/87) but the track is much narrower than standard HO track. If you want somewhat larger models there is, for example, O scale stuff that can run on HO track etc etc.
There are groups dedicated to narrow gauge railroading. Perhaps others on the forum can provide some links
Dave
P.S. Welcome to the forum!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I think the second layout is Japanese and bother the diesels are models released there, although they may be based on prototypes that ran on Taiwan (which Japan occupied until after WWII.)
Just for the record, HOn3 is 10.5 mm gauge, mostly US prototype. Typically, the equipment is larger and requires radii from about 18" min r and up. There are a few items available, such as the Grandt Line switchers, that can handle sharp curves. If I can find a pic of mine, I'll post it a little later.
Then there is HOm or 12 mm gauge narrowgauge. This is primarily another European gauge, representing meter gauge, although it's sometimes used for some of the rare modeling of the Newfoundland Railways 42" gauge track in HO. It is also TT standard gauge.
There are some things that are pretty interchangeable between gauges. Rolling stock and diesels are relatively easy to convert between gauges, while steam is far more complex. I have a Liliput diesel that converts between all three gauges.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
These type of layouts use very small locomotives and cars that are very short, usually with small wheels and only 2 axles. In extreme cases the tracks are laid by hand with a wider gauge on curves.
This site on small layouts has a lot on micro / small layouts.
Enjoy
Paul
The trains shown in the first video link were made by Egger-Bahn, a long defunct German business. The name Egger-Bahn has been bought by a Swiss fellow, who produces and markets a few of the former Egger-Bahn locos. There are made in Switzerland, run like Swiss watches, but are also priced like Swiss watches.
Egger-Bahn
For those of us, who are not able or willing to invest the gold of Fort Knox into a train set, there is Minitrains, who offers a nice variety of little engines and cars, some following US prototype.
Minitrains
Aside from their Fiddletown & Copperopolis inspired 0-4-0 loco, they have announced a 0-4-4 Forney loco, which has a lot of character.
Minitrains locos are said to be good performers.
Welcome! This forum is hosted by Model Railroader, which has a long tradition of showing us what can be done in all scales. Both MR and the other old-time model RR magazine, Railroad Model Craftsman, had a good deal of coverage for modelers who wanted to build narrow gauge layouts without the huge expense of buying imported steam locomotives--or scratchbuilding them. HOn3 and HOn2 are built to HO scale, 3.5mm=1', 1:87 ratio, so buildings, etc., are HO scale. The jaunty little foreign offerings were (and are) also built to HO, but the loco mechanisms and car trucks are built to N scale standards to run on 9mm gauge N scale track. On30 is built to O scale, 1/4"=1' (1:48 ratio) to run on HO track.
Most of the guys use this HOn30, also sometimes called HOn2 1/2, because that's what N gauge track scales to in HO, to represent two-foot narrow gauge, because it's proportioned that way. True HOn3 equipment is a little larger than HOn30--and both are smaller than standard gauge HO.
'Way back in the fifties, a modeler, in response to someone who had written in to say he couldn't find a certain prototype device (a track derail, if I remember correctly), a second modeler told him it was available, naming the manufacturer. He suggested that one of the first things a new modeler, or someone changing scales, should do is collect every catalog he can get his hands on. I took his advice when I decided to change from HO to O scale standard gauge, due to my aging eyesight. I get catalogs from Micro-Mark, which is owned by an O-scaler, and they have a nice array of On30 supplies, locos, cars, and even trackage.
I hope all this erudition hasn't complicated and confused things. I tend to get wordy, 'cuz I know no other model railroaders here in Duluth.
Deano
A couple of things to considder with HOn30 are price and availabiliy of materials. This narrow gauge is a small niche market in the hobby, and there is not a lot of prodduct out there. For USA prototype locomotives and rolling stock, you are mostly looking at the Maine 2 foot RR. Locomotives and cars are available in brass if you can find them and they cost $$$. There are some craftsman kits for boxcars in wood. Very little is mass produced and ready to run. Plan on building or kitbashing. About the only mass prodcuced item is that Peco track mentioned above; it is good quality and stocked by Walthers. Also Minitrains has a limited amount of stuff, one small diesel and steamer and some rolling stock.
I volunteer with the Boothbay Railway Village in Maine, and we have an HOn30 line on our layout. At the present time, I am kitbashing a couple Athearn Hustler body shells into small locomotives. I will use an N scale Bachmann 44 Tonner mechanism to run the thing. Another project is a 3D printed boxcab that I bought from Shapeways. There is quite a bit of HOn30 stuff on Shapeways, but you will have do do a certain amount of completion work to get them on the rails - much like buying a resin kit. You will have to buy and install trucks, couplers and some detail parts.
This photo is the 3D printed boxcab soon after I received it; I am waiting for a mechanism I ordered before I progress further
These are 2 Hustler shells I am kitbashing. The one on the right is too narrow and short; I will have to cut it up and do it over
This is one of our brass locomotives posed in front of an HO scale light Mikado
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Sir Madog Minitrains Aside from their Fiddletown & Copperopolis inspired 0-4-0 loco, they have announced a 0-4-4 Forney loco, which has a lot of character. Minitrains locos are said to be good performers.
And I love the cabforward look that comes with it.
Regarding the HOn30 Minitrains: At the October Great Scale Model Train Show in Maryland, there were two small display layouts operating these models. They appeared to run quite well, with continuous running for the hours that I was at the show.
I had the early Minitrains back in the late 1960's and they had two speeds - off and REALLY fast. I have purchased the new ones but have only tested them with jumper cables to a section of the Peco track. They operate reasonably well. For now, these new ones rest in a box of accumulating items that, hopefully, one day will become a micro-layout with an industrial setting.
Bill
Like the old egger-Bahn stock, early Minitrains locos were quite doubtful performers. They had nothing in common with the "new" Minitrains locos, which sport a can motor equipped with a flywheel.
Minitrains 2014 catalogue can be viewed here.
In the US, HOn3 is more common, and you're going to find a lot more equipment available. Blackstone makes some excellent models, and "click track" based on Kato Unitrack that makes it easy to get trains running.
Stix wrote "you're going to find a lot more equipment available."
Well, there is Blackstone, Blackstone and Blackstone. Plus a few kit manufacturer, but not much more, other than used brass. It is still quite a small niche, albeit a pricey one.
I think I've got the idea behind the diffent terminology; HOn3, HOn30, but I dont yet understand the diff between "3" and "2-1/2". I assumed "N" gauge was just one size?
Greenspider I think I've got the idea behind the diffent terminology; HOn3, HOn30, but I dont yet understand the diff between "3" and "2-1/2". I assumed "N" gauge was just one size?
The small "n" after the scale indicator (as in HOn..) stands for narrow gauge. The figure that follows will then indicate the actual gauge, or measurement between the rails.
HO is standard gauge, to represent 4' 8 1/2" (there is a slight actual discrepency, but we tend to all agree to the error.
HOn3 is then 3 feet between the rails. HOn30 is the same as HOn2 1/2, or representing two and one-half feet between the rails (some manufacturers also refer to HOn30 as HOe). There is also HOn2 out there, as well as HO narrow gauge for the 42" gauge or so that they had up in Newfoundland.
HOn30 operates on N gauge track, which greatly simplifies things when constructing models, as wheel sets and power units can be used built with items constructed for N gauge. The nature of most narrow guage track is different than standard gauge, however, so operating HOn30 atop regular N guage track can look odd... so Peco offers HOn30 track with the wider-spaced ties more typical of light narrow gauge usage.
SO, HOn30 will not run on HOn3 track and vice-versa. They are separate. There were railroads built to 3' guage across much of America at one time, but 30" gauge was a rarity (generally in industrial settings).
Take some time looking at the different models and prototypes. If you wish to model a narrow gauge railroad in HO scale that will look like the East Broad Top, D&RG, Rio Grande Southern, or Ohio River & Western (and many others), then HOn3 is where you would go.
Hope that this helps.
Sir MadogWell, there is Blackstone, Blackstone and Blackstone. Plus a few kit manufacturer, but not much more, other than used brass. It is still quite a small niche, albeit a pricey one.
Actually, way more than a few kits, although RTR is pretty much all Blackstone after Micro-Trains rather fumbled their marketing for a brief entry into that field with some otherwise fine models.
The National Narrow Gauge Convention isn't quite as big as the NMRA national, but it would be surprising how big it is to many, as we narrowgaugers are a pretty fanatic bunch. And we mostly still build from kits or scratchbuild, although Blackstone has saved the Rio Grande modeler a bunch of work with the most common rolling stock in HOn3.
GreenspiderThanks a lot, that's the kind of info I was looking for.
Since yesterday I have been thinking about your inital post and the two video links and am wondering if we have missed something. Most of the discussion has been on the various HO scale narrow gauges. Is your interest in narrow gauge modeling or are you space limited and have to make a layout in a small footprint?
If you are space limited, and narrow gauge is not that much of a concern, you may want to look at N or Z scales. N is second most popular; there are a lot of items readily available, and the footprint is about half when compared to HO scale. Z is the smallest popular gauge and in the past few years a lot more items are avilable. You can pack a large Z scale layout in a small space. A couple of people have made an operational Z scale oval in a briefcase; search UTube for Z scale and briefcase.
On the other hand, if narrow gauge is your interest and you have space, On30 has become popular recently. It is 2 foot gauge modeled in O scale. It runs on track with HO scale track spacing. There are quite a bit of locomotives and rolling stock available. The thing to remember is that everything else, buildings, scenery, vehicles etc., is BIG; the footprint of an O scale building is about twice the size of the same building in HO scale.
G Paine...the footprint of an O scale building is about twice the size of the same building in HO scale.
Technically, it's 4 times as large as the same building in HO, so O really does demand lots of space.
Found pics of my little MOW train. The loco is a Grandt GE 23-tonner and the cars are from PSC.
It is HOn3.