Santa Fe Cantilever Signals for HO ???

[mobilman44]

Hi,

I model the ATSF in the late '50s, in HO.  My signals (dummy) are minimal at this point, and I realize that I definitely will need a few of the Santa Fe type cantilever signals (think upside down L).

In talking with Richhotrain, we determined there are two being marketed, one being BLMA #4020, and the other being NJ International.  From what I gather, neither is all that desireable.   One is expensive plastic and still in dummy form, the other is metal and very difficult to build and keep in one piece.

Am I missing any alternatives?  Am I being too harsh on the above mentioned two?  

As always, your comments are appreciated!

Thanks!

[richhotrain]

As mobilman44 indicated, I have put together two of the NJ International cantilever signal bridges. They are plastic, fragile and next to useless.  Near impossible to make them operational.

The BLMA cantilever signal bridge is metal and it is designed to be operational with after market LEDs.  But it needs to be assembled and glued together with CA adhesive.  For those who have assembled the BLMA cantilever signal bridge, how well does CA adhesive hold it together?  Does accelerator help to strengthen the bond?

Rich

[crhostler61]

Two other suppliers come to mind...Custom Signal Systems and Model Memories. CSS sells finished and working models of other manuf's as well as their own. Model Memories sell etched metal signals, catenary, and other items.

Both very expensive $$$$$ but maybe still worth a look.

http://www.modelmemories.com/

http://www.customsignalsystems.com/

 

Mark H

[crhostler61]

As an afterthought...you may also want to take a look at Oregon Rail Supply. They show on their web site that a cantilever bridge kit is one of their popular kits. I'm not familiar with it. Could be worth a look.

http://www.oregonrail.com/

 

Mark H

[Arjay1969]

I haven't built the cantilever, but I have built the signal bridge by BLMA.  It assembled much more easily and solidly than I expected.  I used a rubberized CA since I was planning on taking the bridge on and off of my Canyon Diablo module, with the result that the bridge can flex a fair amount without shedding parts.

Upshot?  I recommend the BLMA version, even if you aren't going to light the signals.

[gmpullman]

 

I dabble a bit in signals and I have tried almost all the major players. Mark H has a pretty good suggestion with Oregon and that is one option that I use and the cost is reasonable but you have to pretty much build from scratch.

I'm pretty sure this cantilever is theirs. It is tricky to build and the kind of styrene they use seems to melt so you have to be very sparing with the cement. It is of a C&O design, I believe.

You can see the dummy mast (sometimes called a doll mast) which dictates that the track occupied by the caboose is not controlled by this signal but the right-hand track is governed by the two heads on the right mast.

This is another Oregon, their most recent PRR design 2 or 4 track (but you can bash into almost any length) bridge. Again, a kit but this one is a little better to assemble. You still have to wire your own LEDs and run the wire.

Here's the Oregon PRR bridge, I painted silver, and have not installed the masts or targets. It really builds into a nice bridge but does not help you with the AT&SF unless it's around Chicago.

This one set me back over $200 and it is a dummy and the heads are cast with no way of inserting an LED. It's from Overland.

Here's a nice looking Tomar three head searchlight. I use this to show the turnout alignment at the end of this siding. I use LogicRail Signal animators to activate the signals. The train passes over an IR detector and the signal drops to red. When the last car clears the timer switches the signal to yellow then to green. (only if the turnout is lined, otherwise it stays red)

In the distance you can see the train order signal in front of the depot.

Train order signals are manually set by the operator. I use Humpyard Purveyance levers to manually set these. You can get Tortoise actuators and automate the arms but you're talking about $60 for each blade. The signal it's self runs about $50.

Here's another one. This one is LED and I don't think it is as bright as the 1.5V lamp but there's less risk of burning it out.

In the background you see two GRS model SA short mast signals over tracks 2 & 1 of the main line. These have bi-color LEDs in them but the "induced" yellow color stinks, so it basically only shows red and green but it is neat to see them drop to red when the engine passes.

You can see the IR LEDs between the ties (of my unfinished ballast) for the SA-1 Signal Animator. The signals are from NJ International.

Here are two brass signal bridges from NJI. The 2 track runs about $90 and the four track goes for about $200.

No heads or masts for that price. Just little loops to put the mast in.

Here's another PRR position light, this one from Tomar IIRC.

And a B&O CPL that I made from Oregon parts.

I bought one of the Model Memories cantilever bridges. It only had open type SA heads and I pried them off because I plan to use the BLMA three color heads once I figure out how best to mount them. The BMLA head has three of each color LEDs in them for true color aspects.

So, this bridge alone was over $100. the heads are 2/$25 and a LogicRail SA-1 will be $30 for each track so were lookin' at $235 and only two of the six heads will change colors. Did I mention signals are expensive?

I have another cantilever bridge kit from NJ International that I forgot to photograph. It might be closer to the Santa Fe style you had previously mentioned.

(edit) Yes, it is as evidenced by this great Jacj Delano photo, signal in the distance.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6238?size=_original#caption

Below is what an Oregon GRS type G signal head looks like as I'm wiring the LED's into it. The 1.6mm axial LED fits right in and the little "pip" sticks into the lens opening and it looks pretty good.

 Here's another Oregon PRR absolute signal I'm currently making. For the PRR targets the kit supplies a round PC board that makes assembly a little easier.

You can see the axial LEDs I use to the left.

Below shows the backside. I had already stuffed the four teflon 30ga. wires into the mast so I had to run the marker wire down the outside. Once the ladder is on and it's painted black no one had better say anything. (MR=MR) _{my railroad, my rules} 

These are the axial LED's I use. They run about 9¢ apiece.

Here's a couple GRS type G that I use at the end of these sidings to show turnout position. You can see the relay and battery box in the distance. That makes a nice detail. Someday I'll get around to adding wiring and a phone box. I believe this is a Tomar.

 

Here are several relay cases that you'll want along with your signal installations...

By contrast to all of the above expensive signals, these little guys can be had for a princely 25¢ each!

Well, I'm out of bytes for any more photos. Signals have been discussed here before and the general consensus is that they are expensive and a lot of work. I can vouch for both counts. It would be like buying your next new car from Autozone! It would cost you a hundred grand, come from a dozen manufacturers and you would have to build it yourself with no guarantee of success.

May all your indications be High Green! Ed

[gandydancer19]

I have made one of the plastic Oregon cantilever signal bridges operational. 

What you have to do is fabricate a metal support structure for it.  I used a length of soft brass tubing, bent to follow the L shape and still remain open for the wires.  The tube extended through the layout base to support the signal bridge.  The top end of the tube was used to help support the signal head.  The wires were run through the tube so the plastic didn't have to support them.  The cantilever plastic frame was assenbled around the tube and glued to it.  Once everything was built, it was pained flat black with a spray can.  Then the outside of the cantilever structure was brush painted a dirty silver.  The flat black brass tube could not be seen.  There may be other ways to make it stronger, but this is what worked for me.

[richhotrain]

Arjay1969

I haven't built the cantilever, but I have built the signal bridge by BLMA.  It assembled much more easily and solidly than I expected.  I used a rubberized CA 

Do you recall the brand name of that rubberized CA?

Rich