Did Walthers purchase some former IHC/AHM structure kit molds?

[mkwelbornjr]

Looks like Walthers is using old Tyco tooling for their plug door Trainline boxcar.

[CRIP 4376]

The best thing is that Walthers has kept a lot of the old kits alive and still available.

Ken Vandevoort

[Trynn_Allen2]

I'm just wondering when someone is going to rerelease the AHM Rolling Lift Bridge.  I could use a couple of those.

[ggnlars]

This is the case where the IHC/AHM business model has been adopted by others.  It is the difference between importers and manufacturers.  

As with AHM, Wathers makes very little.  They have it made.  Very common in society today, in general.  Model trains in particular.

A good question is who actually designs what is built?  Some of the importers are very active on that front, others seem to take what is offered, thus the various rebranded items.

 In the case of structure kits, there are only a few actual makers.  The give away is the manufactured in statement that appears on the box or in the instructions.  If it says Germany it is likely that Faller is the manufacture, and so on.

Larry

www.llxlocomotives.com

[G Paine]

chutton01

Well, we didn't necessarily know that, but it was clearly a good bet.

I recognize a number of the kits from the old Model Power line, and own a couple of them...

[chutton01]

Doughless

Kinda makes you wonder.  For as long as these kits have been around, did the tooling really hold up that well?  I wonder if they have been touched up recently or if the tooling was really much better made back then.

That reminds me - for some project in the 1990s (I think), I purchased an Aunt Millie's house kit in a new, wrapped box at the LHS. Opened it, and found the tooling and molding was subpar to say the least - the window frames and other detail was shifted/offset/misaligned, and somewhat "blobby". I ended up tossing it, and I was rather irked. So, at least for one kit data point, no, the tooling and molds weren't made of indestructable neutronium. I wonder if Walthers had the molds recut or whatever (not sure how you'd do it inside a dozen steps), but since I don't need a 24.99 Aunt Millies house at this time, I'll have to pass.

[Doughless]

Kinda makes you wonder.  For as long as these kits have been around, did the tooling really hold up that well?  I wonder if they have been touched up recently or if the tooling was really much better made back then.

[chutton01]

G Paine

we all know Model Power kits were going to turn up somewhere, just like when they released Train Miniature under the Walthers name.

Well, we didn't necessarily know that, but it was clearly a good bet.
I had forgotten about Walthers and Train Miniature, and for good reason - Walthers brought out the TM line in the mid-1980s (I am really going off the old memory tree here, but for some reason I don't think Walthers offered Freight cars under their own name in that era; Ulrich and Silver Streak sure, and multitudes of passenger car kits (and the Oscar/Piker duo as well), but not Walthers branded freight cars - this page sort of concurs with my memory of the time - then Walthers introduced the MOW work train sets  under their name, with some of the cars being former Train Miniature - I had two of the Walthers MOW kits, crane and tender IIRC, with the sub-par brown-slick-plastic U-assemble nightmare sprung trucks.  According to the linked page, in 1984 Walthers began introducing revenue freight cars under their own name, and has since never looked back.

It does make sense; back in the day either Life-Like or Model Power would have likely been the ones to continue licensing AHM/IHC products if the company had gone out of business at that time, but since Life-Like was purchased by Walthers and Model Power was licensed by MRC, well Walthers it is then.

[G Paine]

we all know Model Power kits were going to turn up somewhere, just like when they released Train Miniature under the Walthers name.

[chutton01]

Whoa, thread bump!
Looking at the new Walters Flyer today, page 13 held some more familar blasts from the Model Railroading past: among other old-school kits, Walthers is re-releasing under the Trainline line the "Hardware Store" (clone of the legendary "Aunt Millie's House"), the "Pickle Factory" (just listed as "Factory" in the flyer), and the ubiquitious "Machine Shop", which I still have as a kitbashed structure (all you guys who have been modeling HO starting in the late 1970s or earlier - I know you still do too, as well as the "Small Town" station and the slightly bizarre "Workshed").

The Walthers Trainline structure kit line is becoming quite a MR reunion tour for us middle aged modelers, and as I mentioned above 9 months ago if we could just get the prices back in line with inflation, we'd really be getting somewhere with decent entry-level MR pricing.

I don't recall "Aunt Millie's House" being in the first set of Trainline re-release, but apparently it was, under the name "Two-Story House" - man that kit was repurposed in the day, and I remember an Model Railroader article way back where the author created a whole block of unique homes by modifying that basic Aunt Millie house kit. However, something makes me think the guys at Walthers don't always pay close enough attention to the original kit boxes - an "Old Country Barn" with a massive hearth and chinmey? Nope, it was the AHM "Village Blacksmith", and so that furnace makes sense. Oh well, Walthers, you can't win them all

[dknelson]

My understanding is that the leadership at Walthers has expressed concern over the entire topic of entry level model trains and is taking steps to beef up their offerings.  At this year's Trainfest in Milwaukee they sponsored a make and take area where kids, with adult supervision, could build the new depot kit (local modelers with the NMRA had built a few to show the kids the end result -- ironically someone took them!) and Walthers provided boxes and boxes of the depot kit for no charge.  It was a very popular part of this year's Trainfest, more popular then expected. 

A few years ago they did something similar with their Modular line of structure parts (already cut from the sprues and put into bins so no knives were needed) but that needed solvent type glues.  Nonetheless I remember seeing rather young kids create some impressive building walls.  

It does not surprise me to get going faster on this initiative that they have arranged for existing tooling to be used.  Interestingly their own discontinued Trainline depot was very easy construction and a nice looking structure to boot, and I am a little surprised they did not bring that one back.  When I did some modest kitbashing using it I found to my surprise that all of its key measurements where in actual inches and fractions of an inch, not scale feet.

In his book on kitbashing structures, Art Curren offered a sort of archeology of popular kits of that era showing which ones came from where.   

Dave Nelson

[chutton01]

"Have you ever checked out this site? http://ho-scaletrains.net/index.html"
Sure have, many times - in fact, the links to the two Tyco structures I put in my post above are from the Tyco Brown Box resource site (the tripod site), which is linked off of the main HO-Scale Train Resource guide - IIRC the Tyco site was first.
I have noticed this with many of the older kits (I'm tempted to say that Plasticville from Bachmann is one of the few old-school lines not to have suffered this, and even they repurposed a few other manufacturers kits), and I am not surprized when kits turn up under different names - the question I had regards Walthers suddenly offering them under their own name, and how it seems to have flown under the radar of our crack Trains.com forums crew (I also complained about the prices, which are up to double the inflation-adjusted prices of old).
That Arlee station, I would swear I used to find printed accessory sheets in LifeLike kits with that name, say late 1980s (maybe AHM kits too), indicating kit cross-pollination at that time (well, I didn't much about it at the time except to grumble "this stupid sign sheet again?").
Always felt having a timeline of kit releases under which name would be cool, but compiling it might be a nightmare.

[ctyclsscs]

Have you ever checked out this site? http://ho-scaletrains.net/index.html

Even though it's still far from complete, it's amazing how many of the same kits were sold under the AHM, IHC, Tyco, Model Power, Life-Like, Revell, Bachmann, Con-Cor, Train Miniature and now Walthers name. Con-Cor isn't listed yet, but most folks who have been in the hobby will recognize many of the kits they sold under their name. Aurora isn't listed either even though many of the kits first came from them.

You sometimes to have to click through a number of pages (and click the tickets shown) to reach the kit pages.  Then go to the listings on the left hand side of the page.

Jim

[Soo Line fan]

Many of these MR products have more lives than a cat

[mlehman]

Yeah, after decades of selling these buildings under various names and brands, I rather doubt that any tooling was sold to Walthers. They've simply become the distributor in the US, I bet, just as they have for several other lines that were at risk of going out of production. Walthers knows about how these have sold over the years, so they probably had a pretty good idea on how to make money off of them -- if they could get supplied with them again.

The small enginehouse was a kit I built ~1970 for my first real layout, a copy of Frary and Hayden's Elk River RR that appeared in RMC about that time.

[bnsf97]

I posted a few days ago with no luck but I have a question along the same lines. Seems Walthers has released a lot of brand new HO cornerstone kits in the last year or two such as the modern fire station and several skyscrapers. Anyone know if Walthers plans on releasing some of these for N? Or at least releasing some new structures for N? I know there's always a favoritism towards HO but would be nice for some new N stuff.

[ctyclsscs]

Over the years I've heard different explanations. One is that whomever owns the molds (Pola, Heljan, etc) will sell you the rights to a kit provided you purchase so many each year. Or they may just sell kits to whomever comes along with money. So the molds for some kits may never actually belong to anyone selling them in this country.

I believe that Pola was purchased by Faller a number of years ago, so they may own those molds.

I grabbed a 1998 Walthers catalog at random. In that year IHC, Model Power and Pola were all selling a lot of the same kits under different names. Which sure looks like Pola owned the molds and sold the kits to mutiple companies.

Jim

[Soo Line fan]

Most of the Tyco buildings ended up for sale by IHC, along with several engine shells, notably the SD 24.

I belive at one time the actual manufactuer was Pola.

[chutton01]

Doughless

It looks like all of the structures on pages 8-9 and some on page 14 have been around forever and sold under various brands.

Now that you mentioned it, the "Iron Ridge" station on page 14 looks like the Tyco Arlee Station kit and the "Trackside Tool Buildings" look like the Tyco Trackside Mainenance Accessory kit. Only real difference is Walthers seems to be offering less of the cool detail parts (like vending machines, barrels, pumps etc.) that were useful for detailing other scenes on the layout.
Interesting that Walthers seems to be going retro, but I'm still wondering how they got these molds and from whom?

BTW. According to the Tyco Train site, the price for the Maintenance accessory kit was 4.00 in 1976, which is 16.67 adjusted for inflation today, while the Arlee Station kit was 3.00 in 1976, which is 12.50 adjusted for inflation. Walthers is charging a MSRP of 24.98 for both. Hmmmm, they don't seem clear on the budget kit part...

[Doughless]

It looks like all of the structures on pages 8-9 and some on page 14 have been around forever and sold under various brands.

I don't know if they would have come from IHC or the recent Model Power situation.

I'm glad that they haven't disappeared...cheers for Walthers.

[chutton01]

Got the Walther's flyer yesterday, took a look today and noticed something interesting, which didn't seem to have an existing thread about.

Walther's January 2015 Flyer on-line (in their funky reader)
Go to Page 8/9, "Flyer First" - the "New" Beginner's Kits.
"New" is in quotes because Item 931-908, "Gantry Crane" is a rebranded IHC "Gantry Crane" (HobbyLinc listing), and I had one like it back in the 1980s.  The other "Beginner" kits look familiar too - the 931-908 "Consolidated Manufacturing" is definitely a derivative of the Society Hit kit (which was repurposed by various manufactures for other structures two)

No mention of the kits' origins in this Catalog - I'm not sure what's up here, any ideas?