At this point in time I have 20 locomotives from 12 different manufacturers, most have been converted; or, came from the manufacturer with DCC decoders. I have 137 pieces of rolling stock from probably 30 different manufacturers.
I am finding the maintenance of all this equipment to be a daunting task. Those of you with even more locos and rolling stock have to have even more headaches than I do!
Before you start picking apart my mechanical abilities, think again, as I feel I am very competent in this department. I have been involved in the mechanical trades my entire carrier, and was mechanically inquisitive as a kid.
The fact that I have so much maintenance to perform, cuts down on the amount of time I can devote to continuing the building and adding of scenery to my layout. Now that I have developed some operating aspects to the layout, my scenery building has essentially stopped and I have not done any scenery work for almost 2 years.
Yes, I have choices: build the layout, pull maintenance; or, operate! Well I have built the layout for 20 some years and feel it is time to do some maintenance and operations.
The impetus for starting this thread is the fact that once again, I have been disappointed with a fairly expensive steam locomotive’s performance. It has simply up and quit. I don’t think it has made 10 rounds of my layout previous to failing. It is a Bachmann 70 ton three truck Climax. It was new in late 2013 and was a replacement for their previous two truck Climax model I had bought before 2005. I am going to have to spend a couple hours seeing if I can determine what’s wrong with it. Right now it appears that Bachmann has stopped production of this model; so, I wonder what kind of service I will get from them, if I can’t find out what is wrong with it. The standard for repair now days is simply replacement. Meaning any detailing; or, other work I have done to this loco is lost effort!
I have also been disappointed with a Broadway Limited’s model which I had done extensive re-detailing of and started to eat its’ own drive!
People have accused me of always posting negative! Well, gee, I wonder why I’m negative!
Here is a little positive, all of the diesel locos I own, I have installed the decoders in and all of them operate very well and haven't given me near the trouble as the two expensive steam locomotives I've owned!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
What other type of issues are you having with this equipment? Is this a routine maintainance schedule or like described w/ the Climax and Broadway the more complex troubles? Most of my equipment is diesel and aside from periodic lubrication or repairs to broken detail parts they tend to just keep running flawlessly. I guess the same can't be said for most steam as you experience. I run a limited amount of steam power and they see little use.
I could see how it would be daunting if my Atlas, Kato, Stewart and P2K diesels constantly gave me fits w/ constant poor running or derailing. Some of my older engines are almost service neglected, they run so well, it's "if it 'aint broke- leave it alone"
Hopefully others can weigh in on some ideas w/ helping you out w/ the Climax. That would have me going nuts also, or ready to sell it off. Maybe just a lemon.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I have about 35 N gauge locos, but only 6 are on the layout at any one time. When I have a problem with one loco they all come off and are replaced with 6 more, Usually the only problem is electrical pickup. Since my cats are occasionally on the layout (yes I let them) they leave behind some hair and it gets wound up in the needle points of the axles. once or twice a year I take off all the locos and cars and vacuum the entire layout, and check the drag on the cars. If it doesn't roll at least two feet with a gentle shove it gets checked over too. The track is kept clean by masonite slider cars, one in each train. I use no lubricants on the plastic gears as it attracts dust. I have a car with a strong magnet attached underneith to attract trip pins that occasionally fall out. Periodic maintenance is part of modeling and it does not bother me.
I agree that there are two issues here: regular maintenance and fragile steam equipment. I bought the original 50 ton climax from Bachmann and the gears broke after about 1 hour of operation. I bought the NWSL fix, but I have not been succesful, yet. But I haven't given up! In the meantime, I bought a brass model, re-motored it, and it runs beautifully... But I'm told that these older models are also hit and miss.
Generally speaking, steamers are just more fragile than diesels. I learned how to fix them and apart from the climax and one or two others, I have been generally successful. I see it as part of the fun... Plus, broken locos are great for spare parts!
Maybe the solution for you is just to stick with diesels if you don't like to tinker, or go with an inexpensive steam model that is known to be simple and reliable. There are a few out there.
Simon
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy doing PM and fixing things when they need it. I have five cars with masonite track pads and a car with a magnet under it, to pick-up whatever iron/steel parts may fall off. My track is all working good. As I have alluded to in a previous post, some of my Atlas turrnouts have dead point rails and I need to work on this.
I can't imagine having hundreds of locomotives and hundreds and even thousands of pieces of rolling stock. I don't think PM; or, even this hobby would be very much fun in that case!
I love steam engines! However, As I stated, the impetus for this thread was the failure of another expensive steam locomotive! What is amazing to me, is when it failed. I had cleared out the roundhouse; so, I could finally wire-up the stall tracks in the roundhouse. When I was done, I drove all the locomotives back into the roundhouse. The Climax drove in just fine. When it came time that I wanted to use it again, it failed to move. The track was checked and showed power. I pulled the loco out and put it on the main and nothing happened. I put it on the program track and read back the address and one time the Zephyr read "d nd" and the next time it read the address, which is 004. I re-wrote the address and now when I read the address, everytime it reads back 04! However, the loco still will not run. It will not operate on DC, either. I am very dismayed with these high priced steam locomotives, that seem to be very failure prone!
You may not have had problems with your expensive Steam Locomotives and if not, I suggest you should feel very lucky!
Maybe I have been lucky... Now what you describe sounds like a decoder problem. A complete reset might work. There should be a warranty on it.
Good luck and long live steam...
I think when a decoder shows up as address 004 or just 4 it is a default code for a shorted out decoder..........I remember when I first bought a Broadway PRR Q2 the decoder was bad from the factory.........I put in a new decoder that Broadway send and it worked fine........but I sold the locomotive back in 2011.......now I`m sticking with diesels.....and no Broadway crap.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
First off, pick better equipment, no I am not kidding! Bothe the items you mentioned have had issues in the press, proubly before you bought them. I have many (too many) cars and engines, both steam and diesel for the engines. My dependable steam are Proto 2000 and Kato for diesel but I have many others. The Spectrum regular steam, once you get them to run right (usually something simple wrong out of the box) are no problem either, the only one that died on me had a bad board. Notice no Proto diesel, even though I own a few I don't count on them. Rolling stock is mainly Proto 2000 or Tichy by one company or another and unless I do something myself i only have problems with an occasional coupler.
4 was the address I gave the locomotive.
rrebell First off, pick better equipment, no I am not kidding! Bothe the items you mentioned have had issues in the press, proubly before you bought them. I have many (too many) cars and engines, both steam and diesel for the engines. My dependable steam are Proto 2000 and Kato for diesel but I have many others. The Spectrum regular steam, once you get them to run right (usually something simple wrong out of the box) are no problem either, the only one that died on me had a bad board. Notice no Proto diesel, even though I own a few I don't count on them. Rolling stock is mainly Proto 2000 or Tichy by one company or another and unless I do something myself i only have problems with an occasional coupler.
From what I can gather is that model steam is finicky and will always be finicky(I know, I had a Kato GS4 up and completely die on me, I bought a second one to replace it).
I'm hoping you can fix it NP, This makes me slightly more grateful that I model diesel railroading(though the GS4 gets doted on occasionally). simple mechs, simple fixes.
I usually don't do any servicing because my Units and GS4 spend more time in their cases than running. to this point I'm sure I have barely 15 hours of run time on all of my locomotives combined.
If I can get a layout going(highly doubtful) then I'll start 30 day servicing intervals.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
NP2626 rrebell First off, pick better equipment, no I am not kidding! Bothe the items you mentioned have had issues in the press, proubly before you bought them. I have many (too many) cars and engines, both steam and diesel for the engines. My dependable steam are Proto 2000 and Kato for diesel but I have many others. The Spectrum regular steam, once you get them to run right (usually something simple wrong out of the box) are no problem either, the only one that died on me had a bad board. Notice no Proto diesel, even though I own a few I don't count on them. Rolling stock is mainly Proto 2000 or Tichy by one company or another and unless I do something myself i only have problems with an occasional coupler. I don't recall any discussions in any magazine; or, even here, for that matter, on the Bachmann three truck Climax, or BLI locomotives! Could you please direct me to them. Then I would need to ask why Proto 2000 diesels are a no-no; but, their steam locos are O.K. I should think a problem with one would also show up in the other. I have two Proto 2000 GP-7s that are my best runners. Other people, people well recognized in the hobby, think Bachmann is a great producer of steam. Having been around manufacturing enough, I can uderstand one product being excellent while another will have it's problems. I am dismayed by the fact that my luck with this Bachmann loco and my old BLI Hudson where problematic!
ndbprrTo me the obvious has been overlooked in the answers and dirty track could be one of the problems. How often do you run it? Do you run a track cleaning car? Have you tried"gleaming" the track? Is it nickel silver? Some people get excellent results with a drop of Wahl hair clipper oil on each rail.
I appreciate poeple attempting to help me with my problem with the 70 ton 3 truck Climax. However, that wasn't really the impetus for this thread. The reason for my original post was simpy a comment about the amount of maintenance needed to keep track of my smallish layout and it's equipment. I also expressed my disatisfaction with two of the expensive steam locomotives I have.
The general maintenance issue I've brought up, should be something everyone is exposed too. If your having good luck, and your need for maintenance is minimal, by all means fill us in on what it is your doing that is different than what I and most everyone else does!
A few radom thoughts:
Expensive is relative - considering some of the prices out there today, a Bachmann Climax is not expensive, any new brass loco is expenive, MTH locos are expensive, BLI locos are somewhat expensive for what they are.
Brand is seldom an exclusive measure of quality. Even the best companies with have few products that are "dogs" and companies with lesser reputations, or who target a lower price point, will have a few winners.
A DCC electrical problem is seperate in my mind from a hard mechanical problem with the loco - Kind of like a Ford Explorer is not a bad car because it happens to have defective Firestone tires - change the tires and it is a great car.
Proto2000 diesels are great in my view, I have about 60 of them, never any problems except the famous cracked gears - and once again I will say, I have only used LifeLike/Walthers supplied factory repalcement parts to fix my Proto locos and not one replacement gear set has ever failed.
I really get a kick out those of you you suggest NP2626 should only buy better stuff like KATO - Well if I followed that rule, I would not have any model trains - KATO makes a great product, but in HO they have virtually never made anything that fits my era of interest - same is largely true of Atlas.
So I have lots of Bachmann steam and Proto2000 diesel and steam, becaue I model 1954 - and they make/have made models from that era.
Yes, steam loco models can be fragile, and finicky - some more than others - it is kind of the luck of the draw.
I have a large fleet, but I don't find maintenence to be a big issue.
But here is a list of my best runners:
Steam:
Spectrum USRA Heavy 4-8-2
Spectrum 2-8-0
Spectrum 2-6-6-2
Bachmann 2-8-4 (kitbashed into 2-8-2)
Spectrum 4-6-0
Proto2000 2-8-8-2
BLI 2-6-6-4 (N&W CLASS A)
BLI 4-8-4 (READING T-1)
Spectrum USRA 2-10-2
Proto2000 0-8-0
Diesel
Intermountian F units and FP units - all versions
Athearn Genesis F units
Proto2000 - most anything I have - GP7, SD9, E8A/B FA/B1, FA/B2, PA1, BL2, F7A/B, SW1000, S1, etc.
I have had few major problems, and most of those problems have been with BLI - two heavy Mikes that needed major work to get running correctly being the worst.
Bachmann has always been very good about warranty for the few problems I have had with their products.
NP2626, good luck with the climax, hopefully it is just a DCC problem.
Sheldon
NP, I hear your frustration regarding steam. I model exclusively steam but am finding I have way more running time and less headaches with my older Mantua's, generic and non-prototypical as they are. I too have been let down by my (expensive to me) Bachmann 3-truck Shay. Yep, split gears, barely two hours run time... tried the NWSL set, worked for a bit and now they slip on the axles. I've given up on it, it's a display model now. I wait now for my budget to allow me to buy things again and am watching old Bachmann and Mantua 2-6-2's as well as RR Heisler's to replace and run this line on the layout.
It blows fixing things or troubleshooting things instead of just running the doggone train for a while! I keep my loco wheels clean, have most of my rolling stock with IM metal wheels, vacuum once in a while and occasionally run a track cleaner car but that's about it. I've truck tuned most my stuff and have body mounted almost all my couplers by now, and yes, Kadee's. On an off-shoot here, Kadee's really are the best- years ago I converted to knuckles using a bulk pack of EZ-Mates. While they worked great for a while, they have all been failing over the last year and I've burned through my bulk pack of #148's....
It does seem never-ending sometimes!
Happy RR'ing!
Duane
Currently - I have over 1200 cars on my layout and there are over 65 engines.
As for maintenance - I do very little!
When I first place a car on the layout - it gets Kadees & Metal wheels - if it doesn't already come with them.
The Coupler Height is checked as is the Wheel gauge.
The weight is checked and added if necessary.
As far as the engines - they get a similar height check and kadees as necessary - lubed.
I host an OPs Session every 2 weeks on a Thursday night. 20 operators put the layout through its paces.
If the operators have car problems - they fill out a Bad Order form (mostly all checkmarks to make it fast and easy) and pull the car off the layout.
I don't have to worry if an operator can handle my equipment - they are very good at handling the cars and engines!
The day after the OPs session I go and gather up any Bad Order cars and fix them right away - so there is NO BACKLOG of needed repairs!
I may have one or two cars to work on and most of the time it is a Coupler spring!
Been doing this for the past 14 years - so it is NOT a new layout by any means.
I never could understand this needing a lot of maintenance THING?
Why would one have any problems with their equipment - are you beating them around?
I have officially a 1000 hours of Operations on this layout now and it is still going strong.
As for keeping the track clean - running on it every 2 weeks keeps it clean
I used Metal polish once back in 2003 and that is the last time I ever cleaned the track.
Some love to keep cleaning their track as they state they do it every time they run - others not so much but they still use drags etc.
I do no such thing - I just fire up the layout about 5 minutes before the crew arrives and away we go. NO stalling on the turnouts and everyone is a dead frog Atlas, Shinohara or Walthers.
Either I am real lucky in not having any problems or the regular OPs Sessions seem to keep the track clean - although the basement room has a drop ceiling and rugs on the floor - which might have a lot to do with keeping the track clean!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Bob, the list of stuff you do to your rolling stock is the same as what I do. I've been involved in this forum since around 2000, although I left in 2005; or, so for a few years focusing on R/C Airplanes for a while (meaning that list of dos and don'ts is pretty well etched into my mind).
My layout is located in a harsher environment than yours, it has high humidity in the spring and summer and can be down to the low 50s when it is dang cold out. The foor is concrete and the ceiling is knotty pine. I'm a single operator and have; but, don't need bad order cards. I find a problem, I fix it right then.
I've also found it pretty easy to tell when my track and/or wheels need cleaning and essentially only clean them when they do.
NP2626
My basement isn't much better - although I have a large dehudmidifier I have to run in the summer (as I am in Western PA) and I have to hold the humidity level at 70% as that is the level I build the layout in.
When I tried to pull down the humidity to a much lower value - the layout began shrinking and the track developed sun kinks due to the benchwork shrinking.
Rather then relay all 4000 feet of track - I found that just keep the humidity level at 70% and all was well.
While some will have a problem with this - I don't as I know how to work with the conditions I have.
Trying to keep a 2500 sq ft area even in humidity and not spending gobs of money on going to full house climate control works - as it is only a few days out of the year I run into problems.
The biggest thing that helps keep the dust down was the drop ceiling.
NP2626 At this point in time I have 20 locomotives from 12 different manufacturers, most have been converted; or, came from the manufacturer with DCC decoders. I have 137 pieces of rolling stock from probably 30 different manufacturers. I am finding the maintenance of all this equipment to be a daunting task. Those of you with even more locos and rolling stock have to have even more headaches than I do!
My solution is to gradually and continually sell off "excess" locos and rolling stock.
It is my impression that most of us have way too much in the way of locos and rolling stock.
Rich
Alton Junction
I spent about an hour with the Climax on the programing track. I can get it to run on address 003, the factory setting. If I try to program it for any other address, I get d nd in the LED screen on my Digitrax Zephyr, meaning and open circuit on the programing track. I could change the address permanently to 003 and forget it, as I have no other locos on this address and change new locos to another address as soon as I get them. I'm going to outline this problem to both Bachmann and Digitrax and see what they suggest.
NP2626I spent about an hour with the Climax on the programing track. I can get it to run on address 003, the factory setting.
As I understand it you had originally given the Climax an address of 4. Now you have it running on address 3. So somehow you managed to re-program it. I am not expert on such things, but it sounds to me that the issue is somewhere other than with the engine.
I don't remember reprograming the the address to 003, I think I simply gave that address a try and it worked.
I am confident it is the Climax and not my Zephyr as I can program, change addresses and do other stuff to my other locos and everything works just fine!
NP2626 I don't remember reprograming the the address to 003, I think I simply gave that address a try and it worked. I am confident it is the Climax and not my Zephyr as I can program, change addresses and do other stuff to my other locos and everything works just fine!
If the Climax has sound, it is a Tsnunami decoder, meaning you need to use blast mode programing as we described to you over in the DCC forum.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/240304.aspx
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
My situation sounds very much like Bob H's and he makes some very valid points.
Cars accepted for interchange on the big railroads can not have any defects wether safety appliances, unsafe loads or operational problems. I adopt the same policy that no car arrives on the layout unless it has metal, true running wheels and Kadee couplers WITH proper trip pin heights, although I have bent the rule here a bit as the newer Walthers "proto-max" metal coupler is also acceptable, for now.
I have some Atheran BB cars that date from 1971 and even though I have weeded some out over the years there's still about 50 running on the layout.
I don't have an accurate count of my rolling stock roster but freight cars number around 300 and passenger cars total 144. I can't think of any problems other than some of the Broadway Ltd. C-Z cars had some poorly formed wheelsets that BLI sent replacements for.
My locomotive roster is presently at 225. My total maintenance on all of these (save the usual coupler conversions and the L-L cracked gears which is a 15 minute repair) I can recall only 2 cooked Buhler motors on Stewart F units and two bad reed switches on BLI Hudsons (chuff sensors) that took me all of 20 minutes to repair.
I must have good luck with Broadway Engines. I have 45 of them and other than the reed switch I've never had a problem. I did do the QSI upgrade chip on about a dozen engines back a few years ago but that's about it. My original GG1 the first engine BLI ever made has to have hundreds of hours on it. I mean it just runs, and runs, I must have a "thing" for those GG1s, I have ten of 'em
Anyway, steam- diesel- electric, brass- plastic- die cast I must either be choosy or lucky. I had a Bachmann Shay and it ran just fine but it didn't fit my eastern, industrialized layout so I sold it. My only Bachmann stuff is a pair of B&O EM-1s and an Alco S-2 but they both run great.
So, the only real "issues" I've had were the 2 motors from the Stewart F-7s. Stewart/Bowser wanted $35 each for the motors so I found a deal on bare chassis for just a little more on EBay and that's the route I went.
I know all this doesn't help your situation NP but I'm just sayin' there are exceptions to some of the maintenance issues you mention. Just like an automobile, if it gets parked for any length of time, the gremlins creep in!
Good Luck, Ed
If I may share my simple thoughts on maintenance.
I use a "as needed" maintenance program and it seems to be working quite well..
The only "maintenance" I've done on the cars I used at the club in the past 7 years was to switch out plastic wheels for metal wheels and give the cars a quick look over before placing them on the layout.Locomotives is inspected,wheels cleaned and oil/lube if needed.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Geared Steam NP2626 I don't remember reprograming the the address to 003, I think I simply gave that address a try and it worked. I am confident it is the Climax and not my Zephyr as I can program, change addresses and do other stuff to my other locos and everything works just fine! If the Climax has sound, it is a Tsnunami decoder, meaning you need to use blast mode programing as we described to you over in the DCC forum. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/240304.aspx
It does not have a sound decoder. It is Bachmann's Spectrum 70 Ton 3 truck Climax that is only DCC equipped.
I will admit that my luck with the new highly detailed and expensive steam locomotives is not good. How it is that some of you have not had problems with these locomotives is interesting!
What I do with my rolling stock is the same thing that almost everyone here does and I believe my rolling stock is no more; or, no less prone to maintenance problems than yours is.
I think the fact that this is a public forum, viewed by hundreds of people from around the world keeps you from admitting how much maintenance you need to do, to keep everything running. That's alright, I know the truth as there is absolutely no reason that your maintenance would be any less than mine. Maybe a big difference for me is the fact I used 22 inch radius curves; however, I also used easements to help transition into these curves. I also use small steamers, the largest being a Rivarossi Mike.
Happy Holidays and best wishes for a great new year!