Brass engine repair!

[Anonymous]

Hey guys!
Help! I just got a gorgeous WestSide Model's Daylight brass loco off of Ebay and it doesn't run.[xx(] I'm scared to death to go after it with a screwdriver and start tearing into it. Any idea's on where I could send it for a reworking?

Thanks,
5150

[Budliner]

if it was like my old brass loco its the open frame motor
my local hobby shop will now work on locomotives and I cant see sending a big brass train I paied big bucks for off to some stranger or to get lost in the mail


all in all tough question

K-

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that's my concern. I don't want to send the loco off and not only trust the USPS but also trust some guy I've never ever met to work on my brass. Don't do that with my car don't want to do it with my engine!

My local hobby store suck *** to. I wouldn't trust the guys in either of the stores to work on my bicycle let alone my expensive brass engine.

I'm heading up north. I'll have to see what I can do to find something up there. Maybe a bigger store.....we'll see.

This loco is turning out to be a pain in my brass.....HA HA......ugh, yeah.

5150

[Anonymous]

If you have any mechanical abilities at all, opening up a brass engine is really no more difficult than a plastic engine. It comes apart in sub assemblies. Generally, taking the boiler and cab off is all that is needed to access the motor. If you are a mechanical idiot, simply write down the steps taken and reverse the order when re-assembling. This isn't Rocket Surgery, or brain science!

[Anonymous]

Yes, been sitting here staring at it thinking that same thing. I have great mechanical ability just from building planes, cars and boats for the past 20 years. So no worries there. I'll have to at least try that option. I might just go extra safe and take digital pics as I go so I can see where everything went.

My biggest problem is I'm a diesel guy and all that running gear on the steam makes my head hurt! :) That will be my biggest pain in the butt.

Might have to give it a shot though. Where is a good place to get replacement or aftermarket motors for the locos? I'd like to get something a little more beefy or higher powered if that's an option.

No replacement for displacement if you ask me!

5150

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 5150

Yes, been sitting here staring at it thinking that same thing. I have great mechanical ability just from building planes, cars and boats for the past 20 years. So no worries there. I'll have to at least try that option. I might just go extra safe and take digital pics as I go so I can see where everything went.

My biggest problem is I'm a diesel guy and all that running gear on the steam makes my head hurt! :) That will be my biggest pain in the butt.

Might have to give it a shot though. Where is a good place to get replacement or aftermarket motors for the locos? I'd like to get something a little more beefy or higher powered if that's an option.

No replacement for displacement if you ask me!

5150

Slow down ! While I do recommend that you go ahead , pull off the superstructure (its usually only 3 screws on most brass) and take a look, before you go repowering. Who knows, the entire problem could just be a minor electrical glitch or poor contact problem. Stick to the basics! It's best to get the original set up working correctly 1st. ANY driveline binds are going to show no matter what motor powers it. Also wheels out of quarter must be dealt with. And when repowering, dont go for a motor that weighs like a boat anchor. Steam is a delicate thing, and too much weight not properly positioned is as bad as not enough weight at all!
Patience young Jedi, one does not learn all about the force in one day.[image]http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/bouncy_125.gif[/image]

[Anonymous]

Hahahaha!

Ahhhh yes sinsai. You are a very wise teacher. Grasshopper has seen the light.

It's apart. I took it slow and careful. I have three parts now:

The running gear.
The motor.
The brass shell.

Oh wise one you were correct. A couple of screws and it was apart. It does bring another question. The lights! How the heck do you get to those? There is a lead weight in the nose and then a heat shield looking part of the shell that's all one piece. The nose has to come off somehow but I'll save that for another night.

Back to the guts of the stuff. The motor and running gear. Motor is working. The wiring is hashed. I will rewire the whole thing tomorrow. That was the problem. It's not as smooth as I would like either. My dad was always impressed with how slow and smooth a loco could start from a stop with no added weight or cars. This is not the case. This loco sort of "jump" starts. I'll totally clean and maybe rebuild the motor, relube all the running gear and see how it works then. Everything seems to working fine now except one of the lights. That's ok since I have a constant kit coming from Richmond Controls. That will be fixed soon also.

Weird thing also. The loco get's it's power from the tender!?!?!!? Is this a common thing? Never heard of that one. Could explain why the engine didn't run so well without the tender attached. HAHAHAHAHA! Ugh.[|)]

Anyone know of a place I can get replacement brushes for the KTM motor?

5150

[Virginian]

Usually, the tender picks up power from the left rail and the engine picks up power from the right rail, but you could have one where the tender picks up from both rails. Generally, repeat generally, the weight is just screwed in the boiler shell. The smokebox front may or may not come off. You may have to fi***hat new light in there. Remember with a brass loco everything is conductive and you should be able to avoid problems. Also, as far as smooth starts, it may just need a little break-in time.

[Anonymous]

Great to hear another steamer guy is in the making! Also I thought once you took the worry out of the equation, you would slow down and figure out where the Bear ----- in the Buckwheat.

You make me proud!

[Anonymous]

More brass engine voodoo magic stuff I just don't get!

Ok, so how does this work with the tender picking up the current. One wire going from the motor is grounded to the chassis. The other goes back to a small connection for the tender. And the tender has metal wheels, metal chassis obviously and a metal pin that goes thru the loco bar. On the loco bar there is a small wire looking piece.

All of this makes sense but it doesn't seem like the most reliable or best way to get power to the motor. I mean, the half the surfaces are painted over with some pretty thick paint and that can't help the conductivity I would think.

What are you thoughts here and are there any other options for this?

5150

[Anonymous]

5150, Someone above answered your question already. This is how most steamers have been wired for a long time, it works and it's KISS simple!

It's not Voo Doo, but it is magic!

[mcouvillion]

5150,

Sounds like you are having fun! Since all the parts are conductive, the power routes through the parts! (Except, if you look real close, one set of drivers on the engine, and the opposite set of wheels on the tender, are insulated from everything else!.) The drawbar is the electrical contact between the engine and the tender - it completes the circuit. The paint is not a problem except where the drawbar meets the pin on the bottom of the engine and/or tender. The metal must be bare there (or is it bear there? I never know, Yogi!) The wire-looking piece on the drawbar is to put constant tension on the contact for electrical purposes, otherwise it would have intermittent contact.

Anyway, if you are looking at the motor and have fixed the wiring, prop the engine up on something such that the wheels don't rub on anything and connect it up to a power pack. Use a pair of wires with an alligator clip at each end and connect one lead to the engine chassis and the other to the wire that goes to the drawbar. Make sure this one does not touch the chassis. Turn on the power pack and slowly increase the voltage. If you get a loud HMMMM you have a short and need to reconnect the power pack. If not, the wheels should be a-turnin'. Run it in here so that you can watch the valve gear and inspect the mechanism in action. Anything looking really jerky needs adjustment. The motion should all be smooth and uniform. Run in both directions, varying the speed. When you are happy that it is right, put the thing back together carefully and put it on the rails. Highball!

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

I have two of the Westside Daylight GS-4's. They've been running well for the past 20 years with very little maintenance. The boiler front comes off with very little effort. It's just snug fit. The boiler weight comes off with two screws. When I had my engines apart I installed directional constant lighting which took all of about 30 minutes and added another depth of realism to the model.

The engines were built in Japan by one of the most respected builders of brass locomotives. The KTM motors draw a lot of current and often take extra power to get moving. A re-motor with a can motor will work wonders for the operation of the engine. With the motor disengaged from the gear box turn the drive shaft at the gear box and determine if the mechanism itself is not binding. It should turn freely and easily. A good cleaning and relube of the chassis never hurts. You're not going to find a much more reliable or well made engine than the KTM engines from Westside. Once you have the engine operating to your satisfaction you will have hours of trouble free enjoyment.

Westide offered this model in both factory painted Daylight and unpainted. The factory paint was put on rather thick, but still the continuity of the electricity and the smoothness of the engine was just as superb whether painted or unpainted. The design with the ground going through the drawbar to the tender with six tender wheels supplying the contact to the track provides a very good ground. Likewise, the engine lead trucks, drivers, and trailing trucks picking up the power works very well. The best built models coming from Japan and Korea have used this system since the late 50's with great success.

I would much rather work on a well built brass loco than some of the die cast or plastic boilered engines currently being sold. The brass boilers come off the chassis in one piece, usually held with two screws at the cab and one more at the lead truck, and the motor and running mechanism is then completely exposed for work.