When I used to install DCC in brass steam, I always added additional pick-ups on all the insulated drivers and tender wheels. This significantly improved contact issues most steam had.
However, I've eliminated this tedious task once TCS introduced their Stay Alive modules. Those things are a dream come true for installing DCC in old brass steam. The engine doesn't even stutter even when traversing a yard throat at a crawl.
Huge time saver as well. Just hook up two wires as opposed to installing multiple wheel contacts on every insulated wheel and routing wires from them !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Unless you're a collector of brass or worried about its value to collectors, there's no reason to not make any repairs or modifications to brass models: re-detail, re-gear, re-motor, or simply re-work completely. There's not much point in leaving it as it is if it doesn't meet your requirements.
Here's a sister to David's B&M B-15, with re-worked cylinders, new details, and a cab from a Bachmann Consolidation. I installed a can motor in her some years ago, along with some extra weight. The tender was also re-worked somewhat:
A re-worked Akane USRA 2-10-2:
A re-built CNR Mogul. The driver centres were suffering from a bad case of zincpest, to the point that the rods wouldn't remain attached to the drivers. It got new drivers from Greenway, a NWSL gearbox and a new can motor, along with fresh paint and lettering:
This one was simpler: new cross compound air compressor replacing the original single-phase one, some re-worked piping, and new rare earth magnets for the open frame motor. I also added all-wheel pick-up, about 2.25oz. of lead to the boiler, and new paint and lettering:
Wayne
Replacing the stock magnets in an open frame motor with Neodynium supermagnets is nearly as good as putting in a can motor, and a lot less work. The supermagnets improve low end torque, reduce current draw, and will solve motor overheating problems.
This elderly Mogul came to me with a number of solder joints failed, including joints in the frame. I was able to obtain a good big 200 Watt iron that resoldered every thing with ease.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Yes, NSWL indeed offers a great service and a great varitey of prodcuts to upgrade your brass steamers. But keep in mind that if you decide to have your steamer regeared and repowered by NSWL, depending on how complicated it is, the price you pay for this service can be very high. I just had to cancel my project of letting NSWL remotor and regear my die cast metal Bowser 4-8-4. The engine cost me 130 $ but NSWL told me that it´s very complicated to do this job with this model, so that more than 10 hours of work would be necessary. The total price in the end would be more than 400 $ + parts. This is simply way too much for me so I sadly had to cancel this project.
@ TrAckr76: Let me know about your upgradings with the Sunset Selkirk. Because I´m still interested in purchasing this model. I once had the chance to borrow such a model and to test it on my track. It ran super smooth. The only problem is that I´m restricted to 20 inch curves. It did not derail in my 20 inch curves but of course it slowed down, stopped and slipped standing in one place. So I can´t use it of course. But I found Greenway Products is offering a big variety of driving for all kinds of brass steamers, and they offer flanged und flangeless (blind) ones. I though about the idea of how it would be to make the 3 inner drivers of the Selkirk blind by replacing the original flanged drivers with blind drivers by Greenway Products in order to make it run through my 20 inch curves, but I´m still very unsure about that idea because it´s still no guarantee that it will run through that radius with 3 blind inner drivers. Other uprades I would do with the Selkirk would be installation of a headlight (if necessary), a cab light and a smoke unit. And a DCC sound decoder in the tender of course. What about your plans with your Selkirk?
When replacing an open frame motor in my PFM C&O 2-8-4s (PFM did not make a C&O 2-10-4), I install a Mashima 18x30 flat can motor. The under load 12v speed of 9300 RPM of this motor results in a top speed of about 48 scale miles per hour (SMPH) when the United 40:1 gearbox is retained. The motor also fits in the boiler without the need to trim the brass ash pan detail at the bottom of the firebox. If a higher top speed is desired, for a locomitive in passenger/mail & express service for example, there are a couple of options. 1) A smaller diameter (Higher 12v RPM) motor can be used, but smaller motors will reduce available torque and pulling power of the locomotive. 2) The the Mashima 1830 motor can be used to drive a NWSL 28:1, or a Boo Rim 27:1 (my preference) gearbox. These gearboxes will result in a top speed of 68-71 SMPH at the same 9300 RPM. The United 40:1 gearbox is a very good one, and will last a lifetime if properly maintained, and I seldom see need for replacement, as 45-50 SMPH is sufficient for most model railroads. The only issue of concern with the Mashima motor is the shaft diameter of 2 milimeters. The United gearboxes originally installed have a shaft diameter of 2.4 milimeters, and specific drive line components (available from NWSL) must be installed to account for the different shaft diameters.
markie97 NWSL will also do the re-motoring and regearing and tweeking as necessary. There also is a gentleman out of Long Island, All Brass Backshop. He has numerous Youtube videos.
NWSL will also do the re-motoring and regearing and tweeking as necessary. There also is a gentleman out of Long Island, All Brass Backshop. He has numerous Youtube videos.
Thanks very much for the useful information. I wasn't aware that NWSL provided re-motoring and regearing services as I thought that the company only provided DIY parts. Neither had I heard of All Brass Backshop but I will certainly look into the services it has to offer. Since I live in NJ and it is located in Long Island, it is conveniently close at hand.
Regearing the Sierra, which would involve pulling and re-quartering drivers to eliminate the noisy spur gear drive, is beyond my present capabilities but is something I'd consider having done. I watched some of the All Brass Workshop YouTube videos with interest and the proprietor certainly seems quite knowledgeable and competent. I will certainly contact him for further information.
I converted my PFM United Sierra 2-6-6-2 to DCC without changing the OEM open-frame motor. Despite the lack of a flywheel, the loco has good acceleration and deceleration delays even with the standard CV3 and CV4 settings. I used a Lenz silver decoder and an auxiliary 8-pin socket in the tender, which I then hard-wired, and coupled the wires to the locomotive using a 3-pin Miniatronics plug and socket. I easily lifted the motor ground by replacing the steel 4-40 screw that grounds one of its motor brushes to the frame, with a nylon substitute. The locomotive runs really well and I don't think replacing the motor with a modern can-type with flywheel would improve its performance although it would reduce current draw - not that this is a problem, however. The drive is quite noisy though but I'm told that this is due to the spur gear drive which couples the motor shaft, which rides above it, to the gearbox shaft. Nevertheless, I may someday install a can motor and flywheel just because I like to tinker. We shall see.
I have a myriad of photos illustrating my conversion which I'd like to share with you but I can't for the life of me figure out how to post them here. My sorrow knows no bounds.
I've also modified the engine slightly by springing the front and rear pilot trucks and building a centering device for the front pilot truck. It now tracks like an eel in oil.
I was so happy with the conversion that I decided to finally paint my locomotive using PolyScale Steam Power Black.
This is the only brass locomotive I own and when it was purchased new around 1960 by one of my forbears it sold for a list price of $60! I've seen this particular model on sale for prices ranging from $300 to as much as $500 from various sources from time-to-time. Which is why this United Sierra will continue to be the only brass locomotive I will ever own.
Are you sure that PFM C&O loco is a 2-10-4? Seems more likely it's a 2-8-4. If it's a 2-10-4, it may have high collector value & I don't think I'd tamper with it.
A replacement headlight for the Pacific should be available from numerous sources.
Test run the engines to determine what needs to be done. For DCC, any of them would probably need new or upgraded motors. A new (better) motor will often quiet down a noisy gearbox, so don't replace the gearbox unless or until you're sure it's necessary.
Tom
NWSL has been good for years. I bought stuff from them when they were in Seattle WA.
Dave, the new owner in Hamilton, MT has been good to me and he does answer email.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
If PSC = Precision Scale, it will run great.
PFM? Well, it depends. And Sunset? Well, it depends, too. The thing with old brass is that there were some real diamonds in the rough...in the same run! I've seen some locos run quiet and smooth right out of the box, while identical engines sound like coffee grinders.
The neat thing about brass steam is that it's all workable. NWSL products are usually the upgrade to pursue. They have the tools, the motors, and the gear towers for virtually any brass steamer.
To tune any brass steamer, make sure the loco is balanced over the drivers. Try to balance the loco (sans tender) on the center driver. Lay a pencil on a desk and put the center driver on it. The loco should almost balance, but they are usually tail heavy. Add weight to the nose to balance it as much as you can. It's important that all drivers have equal weight for max. performance.
Another trick is to shim the drivers with tiny slips of brass sheet. Put the loco upsidedown in a cradle, remove the bottom plate, and run the engine with an amp meter attached. Add shims to either side of each driver bearing and watch the amp meter. When the meter drops, add the shim permanently. When the meter increases, remove the shim. The idea is that by shimming the bearings, you're straightening the axles and reducing the friction.
Paul A. Cutler III
Hey ya'll, I just made a thread similar to this one about Athearn locomotives. I'm ready for some brass locomotives, specifically a Sunset Selkirk, a PSC Southern 4-6-2, and a PFM C&O 2-10-4. I bet the Sunset runs as smooth as a Winnebago but the other two, I'm not so sure of. I know the Pacific don't have a headlight. What upgrades will work in the C&O, and the SOU? How 'bout A-Line motors? Thanks. -Outlaw
Indianapolis Railroad - Indy Rail! Route of the Brickyard Flyer! Established 1976.