HaroldA Maybe some day I will trash the whole thing but right now I am pretty content.
Maybe some day I will trash the whole thing but right now I am pretty content.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I am 67 and every now and then I give some thought to starting over. I have done that a couple times and as I look at the current project, I can see the reused lumber, turnouts, buildings and track. Now I think rather than starting over completely, I am more apt to tear out large sections of the layout because I know there are shortcomings in several places. Maybe some day I will trash the whole thing but right now I am pretty content.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I just finished reading Tony Koester's article on his Nickle Plate Road layout in this month’s Model Railroader Magazine. He tore down his Allegheny Midland layout sometime previous to starting the Nickle Plate Road in 2000. I'm uncertain how old Tony was, when he decided to start over; but, he certainly took on an ambitious project and although he states it isn't finished yet (is any layout ever truly finished?) it is very well done and takes quit a crew to operate. I found this article in the December issue to be extremely inspiring! If Tony felt he could start over, why wouldn't anyone else feel and do the samething?
Found most of the answers to my questions and have moved onto the design phase of this potential project. With it moving into design, I have stared a new thread called Designing a Rio Grande Southern Layout in the Layouts and Layout Building portion of the forums.
I have been studying the Rio Grande Southren and am looking at stringing a couple-few Layout Design Elements to gether in a possible design. It would be nice to be able to ask anyone with knowledge of this line some questions.
Any body out there?
For most of us older MRs, each time we make a new layout, we acknowledge the short comings of the previous build and don't repeat those mistakes. We even come up with better ideas as well as avoiding old pitfalls on the new layout.
One thing I learned was to never build a road such that any trackage is more than 20" from the edge of the table. Thus, all trackage is within easy reach and easy to clean and maintain and alter.
This means that now 24" is about the width of my widest section with backdrops providing false distance sense with the track all within easy reach. This is especially easy to do in the narrow gauge.
This usually means a wall hugging layout or, in a large room, a lot of narrow twisting and turning narrow islands to create a lot of trackage distance. Tip! The narrow gauge likes wide curves I make my sharpest 22" radius, (HOn3), allows for very smooth operation with no de-railing points, anywhere. I thought that narrow gauge meant tighter curves.....WRONG! Narrow gauge engines and rolling stock are far more prone to track issues than normal HO. Spend a lot of time on your track. Smooth transitions at rail joints in curves and at turnouts is critical.
All the best on your final decision.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
NP2626To me it isn’t a really laboring and is all part of the fun! If you can go ahead and make quick decisions about this stuff, good for you! However, I enjoy thinking about my options and I will make the decision when I feel it is right!
I tend to be this way as well.
Twenty years from now are you more likely to look back and say "I was glad I did it" or be unhappy that you did. I have taken the plunge on many things in my life and even the ones that didn't work out as well as expected, were such a learning experience, I was still glad I had done them,
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
WheelSet2 No matter the age , Do what makes you happy !
No matter the age , Do what makes you happy !
And therein lies the problem! I have been running my HO layout lately and finding that it works very well and there is still a bunch of fun things to do, that need doin’.
So, I will start on designing an Sn3 layout pretty soon. Then, maybe it will look so interesting to me that I will make the decision to go for it; or, I may just decide to keep poking along on my present HO layout. Who knows? Certainly keeping what I’ve got is the least expensive direction to head. However, if a new one turns my crank…
I’m sure some of you may wonder why I am laboring over this as much as I am. To me it isn’t a really laboring and is all part of the fun! If you can go ahead and make quick decisions about this stuff, good for you! However, I enjoy thinking about my options and I will make the decision when I feel it is right!
Santa Fe All The Way
I most certainly would re-use the lumber and even the cork road bed will likely work for Sn3, I would think. However, I wouldn't be re-using this track plan.
NP, maybe there's a way to re-use some of the layout you have? There was a fellow down here in "the cities". (Can't think of his name, Gene...Hickey?? He played a big role in the 1969 NMRA convention in Minneapolis.) Anyway, as he got older, he decided to switch from HO to On3, basically just rebuilt his track to On3 and used as much of the existing scenery, roadbed, etc. as possible. He had to redo the bridges and tunnels of course. But it did apparently not take to long to get a very nice On3 layout up and going.
More fuel for your fire - though I dont quite meet your age restriction. I am about to hit the big five ohhh in another year, and much like user "RioGrande..." has stated twice, alot of things in my life (life happens) have put my hobby off the rails more than a few times.
So change is inevitable, whether we want it or not apparently. How my situation relates to yours is, at 50 now (give or take), I have a small shelf layout thats more of a test bench than anything. And like you, I thrive on the challenge of doing things. More times than not, I will change something just to do it. Something about the thrill of working towards the completion of a new project that yields something better than what you already have. Im guilty too. And there are many who would question why or add dessinting opinions which seem more like scoldings.
So one day (hopefully soon!!) when i get that "win the lotto" basement, i already know im dumping the shelf layout for a nice around the walls semi permanant modular. All the rolling stock will change over too. Essentially, a whole new layout like you, im just not changing scales.
Im looking forward to it. I sense that you are too. Even though most of our circumstances are a bit different. Pretty much, no matter what age, in this hobby..... it is all about the enjoyment. No matter what your doing - finishing up or starting over!
And dont worry about the lone wolf thing. I dont remember seeing any rule in the book that says you have to be part of a group or club. Ofcourse its always nice to share your railroad with others, but if you want to enjoy you road by yourself, thats your right too. It will always be hard to find another modeller/railfan with your 'exact' likes and dislikes. There will always be someone whos asks "why did you do this or that?". Either because they generally want to know (learn) or because they just cant fathom it.
So in my 60's, when i do this, count my opinion as wise. Whether it is or not.... im doing it!
NP2626 I’m on the “Horns of a Dilemma”! Although I have always been interested in Narrow Gauge, a trip to Colorado and a ride on the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad, has peaked my interest in slim gauge. My current layout, which I am considering tearing down, is a free lanced part of the Northern Pacific in the mountains of Montana. All track is laid and the system is operational. I have determined that actual operation as a “Lone Wolf” operator, really doesn’t hold my attention. I live in a rural part of Minnesota and beyond putting an ad in the paper looking for other model railroaders in my area, I don’t believe there are any. I talk to people about my hobbies and none have said; “Oh, you should meet such and such, who is also a model railroader”! The current layout has some problems. It was my fourth design and first since becoming an adult, so of course it has some things that I would do differently, knowing what I know now. I started this layout in 1988. My interest in model railroading fluctuates and I have gone through many periods of time where interest in my other hobbies have superseded my interest in model railroading. Bench work, track laying, wiring and model building are of high interests for me and scenery is secondary. The dilemma for me is: I am 64 years old and I wonder about the wisdom of starting over, at this age! I have been scolded by a friend here on this forum for thinking about if it is wise to start over. Since my interest is in building something and not really in having it finished, it would seem that going ahead and tearing down the old and building the new, makes some sense! So, my question is: Have any of you started over while in your 60s and no matter your age, I would be interested in your opinion on this! I'm not looking to be psychoanalyzed here! If you can’t say anything without being critical, please go away! This is a pretty simple question and there is some likelihood that whatever you may say, I may do the exact opposite! I'm not looking for anyone tell me what to do, just interested in your thoughts and Ideas!
I’m on the “Horns of a Dilemma”! Although I have always been interested in Narrow Gauge, a trip to Colorado and a ride on the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad, has peaked my interest in slim gauge.
"That's as interesting way to go about it, Mike! Nice collection of On30 locos! This would be more than an experiment for you, wouldn't it? I see 5 steamers in your photo, that' pretty much a commitment to On30! Will you have two layouts when your done?"
Yeah,NP2626,it started as an experiment,but soon turned into a commitment. As a matter of fact,I looked at Sn3 first...'bought a couple of boxcars,and some track,just to see how I liked the scale. Then I did the same with On3. I really like the size and heft of the On3 equipment. I bought a K-27,and I was hooked. I also like the space the engines and tenders have for decoders and speakers. I have 5 engines now,and I've installed sound/power/headlight decoders in all the tenders,and separate 4 function decoders in the boilers to handle markers,number boards,cab lights,and firebox flicker(all changed to LEDs).I don't think I have the dexterity to do something like that in a smaller scale.
The On3 track you see in the pictures is a temporary thing.I run trains sitting in an office chair on rollers,but it's not as comfortable as standing. It's been great as a test track,though,showing what I need for the trains to run well.For example,my largest engine,the K-37,will run fine by itself in either direction through a 38" curve,but needs at least a 40" curve to back a train through without derailing - good to know before serious construction begins.
My HO setup is 25'x25',mostly made up of 2'x4' sections bolted together. Eventually,I will tear the scenery and track down,and put up an On3 layout on the same benchwork.
erosebud: A positive attitude is a powerful thing. It sounds like you've got one...my best wishes to you.
Mike
Well, most people don't know when they will die, I'm older than my father was by almost two years now. My sister, who is 12 years older than, I has Alzheimer’s and at times doesn’t know whether she’s a foot; or, on horseback. I have a brother 6 years older, who is struggling with health issues, so I guess what I’m saying is: ”life is crap shoot” and because I have no idea about the future, my outlook will be to look upon life as I will live to be 100, if I make it that far, I will look at it like I’m going to go for 200.
As I’ve stated previously, this is all in the planning stage, no decision will be made for a while yet. I simply haven't worked out enough details yet, to make a commitment.
I'm 71 now and if I were your age and not all that pleased with my current layout I'd start over in a heartbeat. To me building a layout is as enjoyable as running trains on one. Unless you're one of those lucky few that can design a 'perfect' (is there such a thing?) layout on the first try, you're going to be like the majority of model railroaders and will see many things you'd wish you'd done better or in a different way. As all before me have said, it's a hobby that really shouldn't have an end. I remember 8 years ago when I started my present layout I worked feverishly on it, then gradually slowed down as it approached it's present, 'almost finished' state. I've learned sooooo much over those years about planning, construction and what I want in a layout, I'd really like to put all that to use now. I think a lot of it depends on funds available and the overall health of the modeler. If you're in reasonably good health then you have many more years to put into a reconstruction.
Well, since you have a duck-under, AND your present layout is not a walk-around, AND you are strongly considering starting over, my thoughts would be to start over. You will be much happier without the duck-under and the walk-around type layout will extend your track mileage.
My present layout is built in light weight 2x7 foot modules that bolt together. I did this incase the wife decided she wanted to move. (Which she had been talking about for a while.) Well, we moved when I was 70 and I was able to take down the layout and reassemble it in our new house. So building modular is an advantage. If you want to see that, go to this link: http://waynes-trains.com/site/HO/C&A-Main-Page.html Go down the page to the section on layout progress and you will find a link to photos of my progress so you can see how things were laid out.
Right now it is not too late age wise for you to do start over. Plus, the wood you remove from your present layout will go a long way toward the benchwork of your new one.
Ground-throws for turnout control are a good option when tracks are at the near edge of the layout. However, after six inches in from the front they can become a headache because any building or scenery that you may want to put in place there will be in the way. I learned that from experience.
With a walk-around plan, you can still use regular control panels, as I do. I have a small control panel at each town or switching area so myself or an operator can switch from where his train is working at any given time.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I started over two years ago. I had just retired at age 65, we had bought a house with a nice space for a layout, and my old N-scale layout was going to be too difficult to move. I used the opportunity to invest my ample retirement income in things I'd denied myself in working years: a Dremel, an airbrush and spray booth, etc. I also used the occasion to change to HO, partly for reasons of vision and dexterity but mostly because I liked the DCC sound I heard in steam locos.
The complicating factor in my case was that at about the time I was announcing my retirement, I was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer in the leukemia family, incurable and offering me at best five years or so of life. I'd like to say that it's made me work faster on the layout, but not really. It isn't a race, after all. And the pace has picked up simply by virtue of having all these new materials and techniques, from drywall screws to static grass.
Yes, I'd like to get things to the point of some simple car-card operation, if only for the enjoyment of younger relatives and other visitors. But if that doesn't happen--even though it'll bug me to die with things half-done--I will have enjoyed, as I'm already enjoying, the tracklaying and wiring and scenery-building and forum-reading and all the rest. Any disappointments won't last long.
middleman Good luck,whatever you decide,NP2626. I'm building an On3 switching area underneath my HO layout. This has given me the chance to work with On3 track,kits,etc.,while still enjoying the HO layout. The plan is to replace the HO with the On3 a few years down the road(I'm 60). Mike
Good luck,whatever you decide,NP2626.
I'm building an On3 switching area underneath my HO layout. This has given me the chance to work with On3 track,kits,etc.,while still enjoying the HO layout. The plan is to replace the HO with the On3 a few years down the road(I'm 60).
That's an interesting way to go about it, Mike! Nice collection of On30 locos! This would be more than an experiment for you, wouldn't it? I see 5 steamers in your photo, that' pretty much a commitment to On30! Will you have two layouts when your done?
ACY, By your definition of Free-Mo, that fits closer to what I would be doing excepting with no real intentions of being part of a Cooperative Modular Layout and club.
For the record, I moved into my present home (with double garage) ten years ago, and started building in half of the garage.
At the age of !! (the nasty number we aren't supposed to use) I got title to the entire garage - which entailed taking the existing layout down to bare benchwork (and some of the benchwork to loose steel studs and a boxful of little screws.)
That was eight years ago. My 77th birthday is history, and I'm still plugging along. At my present rate of progress, I might drive the golden spike on my 100th birthday - maybe.
In the meantime, the wheels roll, the siderods churn and I'm having fun.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Wickman's response was pretty close; but actually, the "Free" part of Fre-Mo is that you can be flexible about the interface with other modules. That's what distinguishes Fre-Mo from other modular approaches. Your module can be shaped and proportioned any way you like, and it may only be able to interface with one other specially-built module. The modules can be quite portable, but they are each tailored to the builder's taste. At least, that's my understanding.
I don't have an extensive R.G.S. library, but my old copy of Silver San Juan, by Mallory Hope Ferrell has served me pretty well for many years.
Tom
wickman NP2626 ACY Maybe my response seems to ignore the issue of available space. I didn't intend that. When I suggested a Free-Mo style module, I was thinking about something that would fit on top of an existing bookcase, or something that could be stored in a closet when not in use. Ideally, it could represent some area that could be included in the final Sn3 layout, should you decide to build it. Suggestions would be: 1. a portion of Lizard Head, with the station, stock pens, and a portion of the snow shed. 2. Vance Junction. 3. any station. 4. Trout Lake tank. 5. Any straight trestle. Tom Not being a modular guy, can I ask what does Free-Mo mean, I'm unfamiliar with the term? A module is a very good suggestion and one I am considering. I would not start a module until I've developed a track plan to work from. This entails some deeper study of the Rio Grande Southern on my part. I have a book coming on the Ria Grande Southern, and I hope it goes into some detail on the various points of interest along the line. There is some information on-line at the Narrow Gauge Circle website. Again, I want to thank everyone for their great suggestions and comments! Free Mo is basicly a standard of building so you would build a modular piece or multiple pieces where as your tracks would be a certain distance from the benchwork edge to the backside and match right up with someone elses modular and so on. Basicly you can run your engine from your modular across as many others that there are setup with each modulars tracks lining up exactly and a short piece of track joining each modular track.
NP2626 ACY Maybe my response seems to ignore the issue of available space. I didn't intend that. When I suggested a Free-Mo style module, I was thinking about something that would fit on top of an existing bookcase, or something that could be stored in a closet when not in use. Ideally, it could represent some area that could be included in the final Sn3 layout, should you decide to build it. Suggestions would be: 1. a portion of Lizard Head, with the station, stock pens, and a portion of the snow shed. 2. Vance Junction. 3. any station. 4. Trout Lake tank. 5. Any straight trestle. Tom Not being a modular guy, can I ask what does Free-Mo mean, I'm unfamiliar with the term? A module is a very good suggestion and one I am considering. I would not start a module until I've developed a track plan to work from. This entails some deeper study of the Rio Grande Southern on my part. I have a book coming on the Ria Grande Southern, and I hope it goes into some detail on the various points of interest along the line. There is some information on-line at the Narrow Gauge Circle website. Again, I want to thank everyone for their great suggestions and comments!
ACY Maybe my response seems to ignore the issue of available space. I didn't intend that. When I suggested a Free-Mo style module, I was thinking about something that would fit on top of an existing bookcase, or something that could be stored in a closet when not in use. Ideally, it could represent some area that could be included in the final Sn3 layout, should you decide to build it. Suggestions would be: 1. a portion of Lizard Head, with the station, stock pens, and a portion of the snow shed. 2. Vance Junction. 3. any station. 4. Trout Lake tank. 5. Any straight trestle. Tom
Maybe my response seems to ignore the issue of available space. I didn't intend that. When I suggested a Free-Mo style module, I was thinking about something that would fit on top of an existing bookcase, or something that could be stored in a closet when not in use. Ideally, it could represent some area that could be included in the final Sn3 layout, should you decide to build it.
Suggestions would be:
1. a portion of Lizard Head, with the station, stock pens, and a portion of the snow shed.
2. Vance Junction.
3. any station.
4. Trout Lake tank.
5. Any straight trestle.
A module is a very good suggestion and one I am considering. I would not start a module until I've developed a track plan to work from. This entails some deeper study of the Rio Grande Southern on my part. I have a book coming on the Ria Grande Southern, and I hope it goes into some detail on the various points of interest along the line. There is some information on-line at the Narrow Gauge Circle website.
Again, I want to thank everyone for their great suggestions and comments!
Free Mo is basicly a standard of building so you would build a modular piece or multiple pieces where as your tracks would be a certain distance from the benchwork edge to the backside and match right up with someone elses modular and so on. Basicly you can run your engine from your modular across as many others that there are setup with each modulars tracks lining up exactly and a short piece of track joining each modular track.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
I like Mike's idea of investing in some Sn3 stuff and seeing how it feels. I suspect it will feel pretty good, but if it doesn't you could probably get most of your money back out by selling the stuff.
I am in favour of building a new layout simply because you enjoy the process. You are still engaged in the NP but how will you feel about the current layout in 5 or 10 years? By then, your ability to start over will be diminished so you could end up regretting a decision to stay with the NP. Also, I doubt very much that if you were to make the change that you would end up unhappy with the decision. That makes the change a fairly safe bet (as long as you can deal with the withdrawal symptoms from the NP).
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!