Seriously, has the topic of how expensive the model railroading hobby is not been sufficiently beaten to death on this Forum? Please return to your normal lives.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
mlehman BRAKIE Think of it. That would mean using the models we already have instead of worrying how we can afford more. Larry, Yep, and for that -- unless you just want to collect random trains until your wallet is empty -- you have to give some thought to what your concept might be and how you plan to use it. This really applies even if you don't have a layout in many cases. If you operate at a club or at someone else's layout, there's probably some sort of era/prototype theme or even a requirement. If you operate on modules, they often have similar frameworks. Then you at least have some guidance in mind in buying -- or not buying - within your budget. This could be a certain diesel consist, a passenger train, a complex for an industry, or simply a complex kit. Depending on your skils and interests, you may find you have a choice of kits, kit bashing, or scratchbuiling something you need that really can't be purchased. One cool thing about this hobby is that if you see something you like, even if it's that brand new spiffy model in the full page ad in the latest issue, you don't usually NEED to buy it, if you want it. You can build it, with some practice and thought. Knowing what I want or need in terms of rolling stock, locos or anything else for the layout is a lot easier once you have a concept in mind. It's not just for portotype modelers, either, because even if you model just "anonymous big city RR" like John Allen did, but do it on a club layout or module set-ups, you still usually want to build that concept into how you collect and build. It makes it much easier to say no when you see an attractive new model...c'mon guys, you know what I mean.
BRAKIE Think of it. That would mean using the models we already have instead of worrying how we can afford more.
Larry,
Yep, and for that -- unless you just want to collect random trains until your wallet is empty -- you have to give some thought to what your concept might be and how you plan to use it. This really applies even if you don't have a layout in many cases. If you operate at a club or at someone else's layout, there's probably some sort of era/prototype theme or even a requirement. If you operate on modules, they often have similar frameworks.
Then you at least have some guidance in mind in buying -- or not buying - within your budget. This could be a certain diesel consist, a passenger train, a complex for an industry, or simply a complex kit. Depending on your skils and interests, you may find you have a choice of kits, kit bashing, or scratchbuiling something you need that really can't be purchased. One cool thing about this hobby is that if you see something you like, even if it's that brand new spiffy model in the full page ad in the latest issue, you don't usually NEED to buy it, if you want it. You can build it, with some practice and thought.
Knowing what I want or need in terms of rolling stock, locos or anything else for the layout is a lot easier once you have a concept in mind. It's not just for portotype modelers, either, because even if you model just "anonymous big city RR" like John Allen did, but do it on a club layout or module set-ups, you still usually want to build that concept into how you collect and build. It makes it much easier to say no when you see an attractive new model...c'mon guys, you know what I mean.
Maybe that's why I never complain about the cost of the hobby?
45 years and I have never changed scales, been working on the same theme for nearly 30 years, I can count on both hands the model train items I own that do not fit my theme, era, locale and modeling objectives.
I have never bought, then sold off stuff to change my theme, era, locale, etc, etc.
I don't like/want/need sound, DCC, or computers for controls.
I've never bought a loco, or piece of rolling stock just because it was "famous" or "cool" or "cute".
I have a plan, I buy what fits the plan, the plan does not change with the whims of the hobby press or hobby manufacturers.
Sheldon
tomikawaTT Learn to scratch build and kitbash. Check out the craft shops (Michaels et al.) Scratchbuilder's heaven, at lots less than LHS prices.
Learn to scratch build and kitbash.
Check out the craft shops (Michaels et al.) Scratchbuilder's heaven, at lots less than LHS prices.
True that! I am new to the hobby, and also "one of the cheapest guys I've ever met" according to the girlfirend.
However, it all comes down to “what is your time worth”? If you don’t have 12-16 hours to make one building start to finish, maybe scratch building isn’t for you. I have all the time in the world (minus 37.5 hours a week working and some travel time and a very needy girlfirend) so I can make it happen, and the numbers work well with my willingness to spend.
1728 “sq of 1/16” balsa in 3x30 or 36” lengths from Omnimodels - $22 (USA Ebay)
Insta-Cure wood glue – about $25 worth (LHS)
Hobby knife with 24 #11 blades (Aliexpress China $8.28)
Protractor set (Dollar store)
Cutting Board (Dollar store)
Stainless steel ruler ($2 Wallyworld)
Sandpaper (stolen from work, but $5 I guess)
Modge Podge ($9 Wallyworld)
Acrylic Paint ($1 each – Michaels)
Assorted textured paper for roofing, siding, etc ($1 ea, Michaels)
.02” ABS plastic sheet for cutting window panes, etc 6”x10” sheets x6 (Plastruct $10)
Grant total about $100. Enough materials to produce 134 (that’s one-hundred and thirty-four) 2”x2”x2” buildings. Or go buy two plastic building kits that a million other people worldwide probably have on their layout.
Obviously scratch building takes time and patience , and an understanding of some basic architecture principals and math, but is rather rewarding to know you have custom build structures on your layout.
Most of your scenery can be sourced in your back yard too.
Dead leaves in a blender,
sponges in a cheese shredder,
sawdust and some dye,
staples make nice hand/guard rails,
wire strainer mesh and some 12 guage wire and a bit of solder (fencing)
wooden picket fencing, balsa strips and a fine diamond bit on your dremel (making vertical grooves)
If you do not have any reserves about ordering from Chinese manufacturers, Aliexpress is great. I picked up the following:
120 pcs of 2x1.25mm 12v LEDs prewired with resistors, all colours, $60
100 Z scale vehicles, $9
100 LED Street lights, $32
100 3.5cm trees, $12
Basically the only thing I will buy new are the Locos, lighting, transformers and vehicles/figures. I would not feel safe with any used electrics. People have been killed in fires known to have been started by power supplies.
Anyways, I’m new here, but I love anything to do with keeping money in mine (and now yours) wallets! Enjoy and feel free to add ideas for everyone!
BRAKIEThink of it. That would mean using the models we already have instead of worrying how we can afford more.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Texas Zepher what do you do as a modeler to keep active? Run trains instead of buying trains.
what do you do as a modeler to keep active?
Run trains instead of buying trains.
What a novel idea my good man~seriously.
Think of it.
That would mean using the models we already have instead of worrying how we can afford more.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Cost is the main reason I tore down the pike I was building and started a logging road.Again, cost comes into play as to finding motive power that is affordable,which is why I run diesels for the logging part and steam for tourist operations.I also scrathbuild a lot now.If you want to realy break the bank,I also fly.I could fly a plane before I could drive a car.With the cost of owning and operating a plane,it spends a lot of time in the hanger.
Charlie
NP2626 I'm involved in several hobbies or activities. I don't see model railroading to ba any more expensive than R/C Airplanes ...
I'm involved in several hobbies or activities. I don't see model railroading to ba any more expensive than R/C Airplanes ...
LOL, literally I Laughed Out Loud reading that. Maybe for you but... :-D
Ever seen your $1000 dollar DCC/sound equipped brass PFM locomotive investment go into a climb then bank and dive out of control and nose into the pavement leaving only a couple servos to salvage?
I have, also seen the investment equivalent of a small layout get shredded into a thousand pieces after colliding with a set of power lines creating a most impressive Death Star like arc flash-over. Seen tough old men cry when they auger in. ;-)
So yes, if you get deep into it, RC aircraft can most certainly be not only more expensive financially but equally expensive emotionality when you watch your pride and joy become so much landfill.
Years ago a long time RC guy gave me the wisest advice ever regarding RC aircraft:
"If you can't afford to wreck'em, you're in the wrong hobby." :-D
Have fun with your trains
tedteddersonI have plenty to do that's already paid for. The hobby is modeling, reading, building, and operating to me, not buying. New stuff is fun but buying just to get something only makes me feel bad. Being disciplined isn't that hard. Of course I say that now but come trainfest in a couple weeks I may sing a different tune if that fm is on sale! (Hint hint) WhistlingMy 2 CentsBeer Model railroading is fun.
You da man, Ted! Well played.
Seems like there are dueling topics going here. How do I afford model railroading? Patience, planning, discipline. On a few occasions I've had to delete my shopping cart with a new Franklin Morse h10 44. My allowance wasn't quite ready. Instead of 250 bucks on another engine I decided to order some ballast, 3 switch machines, and some wheel stops. Way less allowance disposed of. I need ballast, need switch machines, need wheel stops. I WANT the engine however it's not in THIS part of the plan, the other stuff is.
What will I do while my allowance accumulates so I can finally get that fm? Ballast on my railroad gets put down very slowly. I'll touch it up a bit with some crushed pastels, maybe paint the rails of a turnout or two, weather some wheels, clean up my layout room and bench, research how to make a back drop on a concrete wall, weather a reefer, paint some wheel stops, solder some switch machine wires, weather the other side of that reefer, more than likely spend hours staring at my layout confirming my wife's suspicions of my sanity, curse jmri, print a switch list, and of course empty my beer fridge while spotting cars at the yet to be built icing station, brewery, and freight depot.
I have plenty to do that's already paid for. The hobby is modeling, reading, building, and operating to me, not buying. New stuff is fun but buying just to get something only makes me feel bad. Being disciplined isn't that hard. Of course I say that now but come trainfest in a couple weeks I may sing a different tune if that fm is on sale! (Hint hint)
Model railroading is fun.
galaxy wrote:
While I was young, firm, strong and a real go-getter, I ALWAYS worked more than one job to get what I wanted for "toys". ALL my working life, I had at least a minimum of 2 jobs at any given time.SNIP
Oh, If only I were that young, firm and strong again...
Yeah, if only all those jobs were still there. Lots of young folks want to work, but have trouble finding even part-time work. When the jobs are there, they're competing with adult supporting families. Which doesn't mean no jobs, just that it's a far more competitive endeavour for even low-paying work with irregualr hours, let alone anything "decent."
The economy used to bounce back in a couple years after a recession. This one took 6 years. And I'm not talking politics, as presidents have surprisingly little to do with the economy in terms of changing things without Congress's help -- and those folks have been out to lunch since the last millenium and when they do do things, they're almost always the wrong things for the wrong reasons. It is a far harsher economic environment than even the early 70s were when I was coming up.
So old folks are sitting fat and happy? Not with worrying about the pension being there, health care, retirement accounts declining instead of accumulating -- heck someone should start worrying about th3e older "boys" that used to jump back into the hobby once the kids were gone and the house mostly paid for I'd bet that's where the vendors are taking the biggest hits, because kids never had real money to play with -- middle aged adults did.
Yes, the pain is real for many people. Coming up with a few dollars for fun can be hard. The idea of an operating layout may seem as impossible as a college education without endless student loans. But there are ways to do it, people here to ask for advice, and folks who may be able to help with some things. The NMRA has a 6 months beginners membership at a reduced rate. I know in our NMRA division, if someone came aboard that way and they let us know they might need some assitance to continue, we'd work to make sure they could afford to continue, find stuff we no longer had a need for, share tools, clean out our lumber piles.
People often wonder what they get with a NMRA membership. I can't guarantee you'd get any of that in any particular place, but I do know that we work hard to include people around here. We're a charitable/educational organization, not a charity per se, but when you get to know people here in the Midwest, things have a way of working out because friends watch out for each other.
And this appraoch doesn't necessarily need to be restricted to the NMRA. There are model railroad clubs in many places that will try to work with you if times are tough. Maybe you have a skill they need or maybe they just do it because they just do that if people ar interested enough to inquire about participating. With a club layout, you can concentrate limited finances into lcoos and rolling stock, maybe a controller.
For young fellows, if you're in Scouts, check out the RR merit badge program to see what it offers.
Remember that libraries still carry, loan and obtain books. If they don't have what you need, they can often get it through interlibray loan. Need cheap RR books to buy for reference? Check out abebooks.com, where you can find all kinds of prototype and model railroad books, often for less than that mega-A-bookstore. For really old books, there is a LOT on Google that is RR-oriented if you search -- and they're just about all free to read or download.
OK, that's my brain dump on this topic for now, I'm going to run some trains
zstripe New prices are up and our average income isnt, what do you do as a modeler to keep active? ... Do what I did when I was younger to get above water.....work two job's. Take Care! Frank
That's the ticket!
While I was young, firm, strong and a real go-getter, I ALWAYS worked more than one job to get what I wanted for "toys". ALL my working life, I had at least a minimum of 2 jobs at any given time.
I was no slouch for getting what I wanted.
No kidding, I worked two full time jobs, went to college full time, and came out with grades like 4 "A"s and 1 "B" per semester. 3.87 GPA. I had no student loans, no grants or scholarships, and paid my way through my college courses at the time I took them....as well as rent off campus in a high-cost rent area, a truck payment {an expensive luxury model before the luxury models were common place for trucks...a "big" toy for me}, a killer expensive top quality component stereo system that didn't quit....I could go on....
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
NP2626 I don't see model railroading to ba any more expensive than R/C Airplanes
I use to fly R/C. I spent more just on tranportation to and from the club than I do on trains. Getting to the train room is easier than packing up the Van.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
KRISTIAN CHRONISTERI don't find it any more expensive than it ever was. Do I miss 1970's prices? Sure. Do I want them back if I also get a 1970s income to go with them. Heck no. Correct that $ xxx loco price for inflation, compare it to a comparable item from way back when, and you'll find this has remained a pretty much middle of the pack hobby, cost-wise, over time.
Hush, you and your "actually understanding inflation."
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
I'm involved in several hobbies or activities. I don't see model railroading to be any more expensive than R/C Airplanes or R/C sailing. However, I do wish that kits for locomotives where still available. There not, so I need to move on. Almost everything on my layout has been built from kits. I don't need; or, want RTR freight, passenger; or, structures models! Why would I want someone else to do that part of this hobby that I love to do the most?
Good luck in your endeavors!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Dusty Solo That's corporate types for you. If they don't like or can't handle the truth then they destroy it. Very dissapointed in our hosts if this was the actuality. Dusty
That's corporate types for you. If they don't like or can't handle the truth then they destroy it.
Very dissapointed in our hosts if this was the actuality.
Dusty
big daydreamer ONR FAN All your doing is fooling yourself. Being active in the hobby means building something, attending shows and club events. Posting on a forum does not mean your active in the hobby. lol maybe I would I have time for that IF I WAS RETIRED! I have done none of these things in the past month. So does that mean I am not an active modeller? Whats next? buying RTR makes me not a real ........? because I've read that before too, on this forum.
ONR FAN All your doing is fooling yourself. Being active in the hobby means building something, attending shows and club events. Posting on a forum does not mean your active in the hobby.
All your doing is fooling yourself. Being active in the hobby means building something, attending shows and club events. Posting on a forum does not mean your active in the hobby.
lol maybe I would I have time for that IF I WAS RETIRED! I have done none of these things in the past month. So does that mean I am not an active modeller?
Whats next? buying RTR makes me not a real ........? because I've read that before too, on this forum.
I'm not retired and I work 10 hours a day. I find time to work on my layout once in awhile and I attend a monthly round robin group. Last weekend I was at a show with some friends. Only posting on a forum does not make you an active modeller. Don't get me started on RTR, lol.
I agree with Big Daydreamer, posting on Forums, getting 3 RR magazines monthly and checking new releases online with 8 manufacturers makes me "active in the hobby". I have plenty of unfinished projects, a Dremel tool on each floor of the house and there's always something waiting for me at my LHS.
I am cutting back on RTR purchases so I have $$ left to buy the things I need to finish ongoing projects scratchbuilt or painted/decalled/super detailed.
That's why I won't pay $3-400 for a sound loco that "also runs on DC" when I can buy a $180 dcc-ready loco and light kits for a whole passenger train.
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
YEP!
Only becasue we were talking about another BRANDS of Magazines! ;-)
And this thread probably will too!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
tomikawaTTLearn to scratch build and kitbash. Check out the craft shops (Michaels et al.) Scratchbuilder's heaven, at lots less than LHS prices. Cherry pick the Walthers sale fliers. Decide whether you NEED it, or just WANT it. You NEED a locomotive to pull that freight. It doesn't have to be a custom-built brass one of a kind. The lead box car won't be insulted if a (bought used at a train show) BB Athearn couples up to pull it away.
Cherry pick the Walthers sale fliers.
Decide whether you NEED it, or just WANT it. You NEED a locomotive to pull that freight. It doesn't have to be a custom-built brass one of a kind. The lead box car won't be insulted if a (bought used at a train show) BB Athearn couples up to pull it away.
I don't think scratchbuilding will ever be my cup - tea, but overall your suggestions are good ones. There are many facits to the hobby that we can enjoy if we don't have lots of money to spend on new goodies. We can find ways to save up for something if needed like our young hobbiest above. I want to get several of the new Genesis GP40-2's due out soon so I've sold some unneeded items to generate funds to cover most of the cost.
DON'T try to keep up with the Joneses. Let them keep up with their own late payments and bankruptcies.
MSN News had a piece a week ago about how poor people stay poor or in-debt, and one of the bullet items they gave was "trying to keep up with the jones". Many people could increase their standard of living and financial situation if they lived within their means while they work on bettering their income prospects. The hobby is part of this picture as you pointed out. There are some very good options for those who have limited funds to allow them to enjoy model railroading!
Just an aside. On numerous occasions I've described inexpensive answers to some IP's questions, only to have the next poster recommend some $$$ proprietary product to do the same thing at 10 or more times the cost. Then people complain that this is an expensive hobby!
Like the Accurail CF4750 vs. the Tangent CF4750? Sure, we'd all like to own Mercedes or BMW's and believe me, there are plenty of "me-monsters" driving around Washington DC in Mercedes and BMW's who are driving status symbols around - probably funded by the tax payer through fat government contracts no doubt. But I digress...
In the end, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Every time I visit a train show, I am reminded of how there are lots of inexpensive items available for those who want to be able to enjoy a champaign hobby on a beer budget!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Do as many home repairs yourself as possible. I work full time and have never paid for a plumber, electrician, etc. etc. Change you own oil. Turn off cable. Quit supporting the Hollywood people at the box office. Stop paying outrageous ticket prices at sporting events. Shop at warehouse club. Check out ebay for deals. Lots of ways to save.........
Jim
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - as inexpensively as possible)
Dusty SoloYou eat road kill? Seriously. Dusty.
Dusty.
When I was an environmental geologist working in the north country of NY state, I worked at a NYDOT high department. They were responsible for picking up the "road kill", the deer hit by cars on the highways. They told me if the deer were not dead long and the weather was cool enough, they would take the carcas to a place which would have them butchered and provide meat for poor. So road kill being used for food is not actually unusual or shocking.
back on topic:
mlehman JACOB SOARES It is an expensive hobby, but if you want something enough you will find a way to acquire it. For me (a 20 year old college student waiting tables for a living.) that usually means willing myself to work 12 or 13 hour shifts during my weekends to generate extra income and being frugal with other areas of life. I'm just now getting back into model railroading...SNIP...Unfortunately I'm not in a position to build a working layout, but if I want to run trains then I have plenty of options in my area. (Houston, TX) So in short, patience, frugality in other nonessential areas, and damn hard work. Jacob, You're a wise young man. You have a great future, in the hobby and in life. Enjoy. You and wickman's comments made my day.
JACOB SOARES It is an expensive hobby, but if you want something enough you will find a way to acquire it. For me (a 20 year old college student waiting tables for a living.) that usually means willing myself to work 12 or 13 hour shifts during my weekends to generate extra income and being frugal with other areas of life. I'm just now getting back into model railroading...SNIP...Unfortunately I'm not in a position to build a working layout, but if I want to run trains then I have plenty of options in my area. (Houston, TX) So in short, patience, frugality in other nonessential areas, and damn hard work. Jacob,
It is an expensive hobby, but if you want something enough you will find a way to acquire it. For me (a 20 year old college student waiting tables for a living.) that usually means willing myself to work 12 or 13 hour shifts during my weekends to generate extra income and being frugal with other areas of life. I'm just now getting back into model railroading...SNIP...Unfortunately I'm not in a position to build a working layout, but if I want to run trains then I have plenty of options in my area. (Houston, TX)
So in short, patience, frugality in other nonessential areas, and damn hard work.
You're a wise young man. You have a great future, in the hobby and in life. Enjoy. You and wickman's comments made my day.
+1000 A good rebuttal to the constant hand wringing and whining which seems to be an unnecessary fixture in these forums.
Bravo!
JACOB SOARES It is an expensive hobby, but if you want something enough you will find a way to acquire it. For me (a 20 year old college student waiting tables for a living.) that usually means willing myself to work 12 or 13 hour shifts during my weekends to generate extra income and being frugal with other areas of life. I'm just now getting back into model railroading...SNIP...Unfortunately I'm not in a position to build a working layout, but if I want to run trains then I have plenty of options in my area. (Houston, TX) So in short, patience, frugality in other nonessential areas, and damn hard work.
Jacob,
Your income is not up???
Walmart in Dickinson is offering $17.00/hr with benefits to start.
Prices are not up, the greenback is down and going deeper. After the Civil War, inflation was so bad that Cyrus McCormick put all of his funds into PIG IRON.
LION puts all of his money into Jelly Beans.
YUM!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS