Not familiar with the New York scene much, but did come across this article in the NY Times about the potential demise of "Railroads on Parade" unless a patron and new home are found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/nyregion/collection-of-trains-to-be-sold-at-auction.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSectionSumMediumMedia&module=pocket-region®ion=pocket-region&WT.nav=pocket-region#
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
One of the hit songs for a Canadian band called 'The Barenaked Ladies' was titled "If I Had A Million Dollars...."
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
It would be awesome if a few people would donate enough money to save the layout and collection.
It is sad that they are being forced to sell everything. To bad they can't get with a railroad muesum, or tourist RR. It would fit perfectly into something like an old depot, and they would probably get more visitors.
Is this really any different than the death of any model railroader? The layout gets torn up and tossed, and the locos and rolling stock get sold for salvage value.
Rich
Alton Junction
hon30critter One of the hit songs for a Canadian band called 'The Barenaked Ladies' was titled "If I Had A Million Dollars...." Dave
If I had a million dollars, I would forget about HO scale, and switch to R scale (1:1)[swg{. I am thinking a decent diesel electric (maybe two), a private car for myself, a passenger car for excursions (to pay for diesel, maintance, etc) and a caboose, along with a shop to store all of this in when it is not in use.
Kyle hon30critter One of the hit songs for a Canadian band called 'The Barenaked Ladies' was titled "If I Had A Million Dollars...." Dave If I had a million dollars, I would forget about HO scale, and switch to R scale (1:1)[swg{. I am thinking a decent diesel electric (maybe two), a private car for myself, a passenger car for excursions (to pay for diesel, maintance, etc) and a caboose, along with a shop to store all of this in when it is not in use.
Obvioisly - you have no idea how little a Million Dollars purchases in todays world! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts Kyle hon30critter One of the hit songs for a Canadian band called 'The Barenaked Ladies' was titled "If I Had A Million Dollars...." Dave If I had a million dollars, I would forget about HO scale, and switch to R scale (1:1)[swg{. I am thinking a decent diesel electric (maybe two), a private car for myself, a passenger car for excursions (to pay for diesel, maintance, etc) and a caboose, along with a shop to store all of this in when it is not in use. Obvioisly - you have no idea how little a Million Dollars purchases in todays world! ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
not even enough to fix up our Mike ...
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I practically need a million to buy a two bedroom townhouse where I live!
I am sure the collection and the layout are both fabulous and I recall the articles by Dunham in MR about his show layout in Manhattan.
But frankly I am very dubious about model or toy train exhibits as money making (or even break even) tourist propositions. I like going on layout tours at NMRA meets and conventions, and in a sense I suppose I pay for those tours, but I cannot imagine driving out of my way to go to a commercial layout exhibit no matter how nice it is. Nor do I know of others who make model train exhibits a vacation destination. This is why I have my doubts about the NMRA "museum" in Sacramento although at least there you have a first class railroad museum to also go to.
Dave Nelson
Dave,
I think you're right about it's future as a profitable enterprise. No way where it's at, and not sure a new location could do it either on attracting customers as a destination.
Now, as an amenity of a destination, in a lobby, as part of a larger group of exhibits or entertainment, a railroad museum, etc, it would be a good mix.
I think the NMRA Museum is a good fit with the CSRM. And it doesn't need to be profitable in the usual sense, can't be in fact because the NMRA is a non-profit. Doesn't mean that costs and income don't matter, just that the math is more break-even than turning a profit.
A caboose is about $10,000 and I have seen GPs listed for around $100,000 and private car for about $100,000.
KyleA caboose is about $10,000 and I have seen GPs listed for around $100,000 and private car for about $100,000.
The purchase price of this stuff is a very small tip on a very large iceberg...
DSO17 Kyle A caboose is about $10,000 and I have seen GPs listed for around $100,000 and private car for about $100,000. The purchase price of this stuff is a very small tip on a very large iceberg...
Kyle A caboose is about $10,000 and I have seen GPs listed for around $100,000 and private car for about $100,000.
Once, out of curiosity, I looked in to it: yeah you can get that $100,000 PV, but that's going to cost you $500,000 bringing it up to operating and compliance standards.
Ah, found the AAPRCO "guide" I'd saved. Dig this:
Before you even turn a wheel with your newly approved car, you must be prepared for fixed costs for the above items on an on going basis. You should estimate between $10,000 and $20,000 per year for storage and upkeep. If you add in a $20,000 to $30,000 paint job every ten to fifteen years.
NittanyLionBefore you even turn a wheel with your newly approved car, you must be prepared for fixed costs for the above items on an on going basis. You should estimate between $10,000 and $20,000 per year for storage and upkeep. If you add in a $20,000 to $30,000 paint job every ten to fifteen years.
That's about the same as owning a 50' sailboat and the reason I got cold feet and did not buy one. As with so many things buying it is the cheap part.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
And I haven't seen any quotes on fuel...plus - who's your driver? Then there's rights of way...
bigpianoguy And I haven't seen any quotes on fuel...plus - who's your driver? Then there's rights of way...
Amtrak's fee is like $2.10 a mile.
Back to the main issue of Railroads on Parade: The railroad needs a high traffic home as an add on to a going concern like a museum. The locale of the layout suggests a good fit in the Northeastern US or Southeastern Canada, but this can be tweaked a bit with new station names and rolling stock. This appears to be a pretty expensive piece of model real estate to own, house, maintain, and operate, so only a couple dozen locations or foundations could make a go of it.
When you include the effects of tight budgets and high costs, it does not look like a happy ending on the arrival track without a concerted effort of railfans, societies, etc.
Everything has its end time. Perhaps the fate of Railroads on Parade has already been decided by circumstances already in place. When an investor wants his money out of this & there is a three quarter million debt then some folks just might be engaged in wishful thinking & blind hope for a good outcome. I would call this situation of looking down the barrel of this displays demise . But clearly the dye was cast when the display had to leave Manhattan to become a kind of pathetic traveling road sho looking for a home. An aging Radio City dancer with no place to go.
A sad end indeed.
Dusty
My thoughts is to put the items on the layout up for public auction..All things must pass.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I know of a couple of people who have had to sell collections or model RR businesses at auction. They received pennies on the dollar as their return. What may be better is for the owners to donate the equipment to clubs who will appreciate the donation and take a tax deduction for the value of that donation.
Happy endings to stories like this don't come often. This one is not set in stone yet. Things seem to be looking up for Railroads on Parade, though, after the auction earlier this month led to no challenges to relatively low bids put up by the Dunhams. Further negotiation seems to have led to them retaining everything, although final fundraising (via Kickstarter) and other details need to be put in place by early December.
More in this NY Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/nyregion/model-railroad-builders-win-auction-but-must-raise-money-to-pay-the-tab.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=mini-moth®ion=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below
I saw a $750K debt figure in one of the articles. Did the Dunhams have to buy the display back from Citigroup? Surely they didn't burn through $750K in 3.5 years for rent, salaries and working capital....
It would take a cubic admissions to service that kind of debt...
They offered bids of $25,000 each for two of the four lots. No one bid against them nor for the other two lots. Post-auction, they apparently negotiated to pay another $25,000 for the unbid lots. So a total paid of $75,000, so they will get it for a dime on a dollar, assuming they raise the remaining funds needed by the deadline.
I'm not sure Citigroup ever owned it, they just paid to display it IIRC. The present owner was someone who invested in hopes it could make it up in the hills where the rent is cheap. They hope to stay there, but bring the one system in for the holidays as before.