What is considered free-rolling?

[Morpar]

I am trying to set up a standard for all my rolling stock to adhere to. The issues of weight, wheel flanges, and coupler height are all covered by NMRA standards. But in the NMRA standards, they list "free-rolling trucks" as part of getting cars to track well. So just what is "free-rolling"? Should it be a car that will roll down a 1% grade from a stopped position? Maybe .5%? Or 2%? Anyone have any club/individual standards that they wi***o share (good or bad)? My thought is to make an inclined test track to test each car as it is readied for use, thus eliminating any margin of error and having a repeatable standard. I just need some ideas as to what will work well for the future.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Interesting question. Free rolling does seem to be rather vague. I have a 2% grade on my 3 rail O helix, and I have to push single cars to get them started. Even then they stop and have to be pushed again. So, are my wheels not free rolling? I used to think my eqipment rolled pretty well, this gives me pause.

And the NMRA gave no definition? I would say that you are onto something by trying to establish some kind of standard for your equipment. The idea of a test grade sounds like a good place to start.

There is another aspect to getting cars to track well, and that may be part of what free rolling means. Make sure that the trucks TURN freely. On cars like Athearn blue box, make the truck mounting screw is not too tight.

[railman]

"free rolling" is a good question. Perhaps somebody could calculate how far it takes a prototype boxcar to stop at a set speed, say 10 MPH on flat level track. That really isn't feasible for every car in the world, so maybe a better idea;

Just see if they spin for a 'long time' when you give them a whirl...maybe that's the best test.

[IRONROOSTER]

Free rolling is a relative term like asking is it cold. I would say anything that starts rolling on a 0.5% grade is free rolling. Anything that stays put or stops on a 3% grade is not. Where in between is hard to say. If you're trying to spot cars on spurs with a grade then anything that won't stay put is free rolling. If you're trying to roll them down a hump yard then the ones that hang up are not free rolling.[:D][:D]
Enjoy
Paul

[cacole]

I consider a piece of rolling stock to be free rolling if it will go down a 2 percent grade without being pushed or stopping. The most free rolling trucks I have found in HO scale are Proto 2000, and the absolute best metal wheelsets are LBF. I removed hundreds of Kadee metal wheelsets and replaced them with LBF, even in Kadee trucks, because LBF wheelsets roll so much better than others. Intermountain runs a very close second to LBF in free-rolling qualities, but cost considerably more. On the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club's HO scale layout, we have a 2 percent grade that is about 20 feet long. The track then goes around an 8-foot long, 180-degree curved trestle, and along a run of level track for 25 feet. With LBF wheelsets, some rolling stock will go almost to the end of the level area after rolling down the grade and around the trestle. Anything that doesn't make it at least half way gets Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas trucks if LBF wheelsets don't do the trick.

[Fergmiester]

Cacole has said it very well. Believe me you will know free wheeling when you see it. to demonstrate take a low end car with plastic wheels. Change the wheels out for metal ones. I use Proto 2K. With the new wheels in you know have the "greased pig" effect as these cars will roll and the slightest of inclines. If you accidently knudge the car it's gone for a ride. That's free rolling!

Fergie

[mcouvillion]

Yeah, what is considered "free rolling?!!". I used to take cars I had set up to a friend's layout that had an incline (I don't know the % grade) and carefully release the cars at the top of the incline. "Free rolling" cars gradually started to roll until at the end of the incline (about 10') they were rolling pretty good. Cars that needed a nudge or didn't go very far went back on the bench. I no longer have access to this layout, but when I set a car up on the bench, I roll it on a glass surface. Free rolling cars move very easily with little help, cars that drag hardly move at all with a gently nudge.

Another example is diesel engine trucks without the worm gears. Out of the box the things won't roll freely more than about an inch or two. Cleaned, lubed, and gauged, they roll 10 - 12 inches or more with the same gentle persuasion (on a glass surface or flat track). I guess after a while you figure out what counts as "free rolling"!

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

http:///www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm an after market wheel(0.088 )set distributor sells a roll tester that counts the number of times an axle set travels down & return on a 3" high circular arc ramp.

[DSchmitt]

1. Set the car ao a level track
2. Blow on the end from about 2" away

If it moves it is "free rolling"

[jrbernier]

Free rolling trucks should start a car rolling down a 1/2% grade on its own. Now, there are a couple of items you will need to check out. Most of my freight cars have plastic sideframes with P2K metal wheels. All of them have had the journal 'reamed out' with a Reboxx 'tool'(you can get this tool from Micro-Mark as well).
After cleaning my track with a 'Brite Boy', my P2K GP9 could pull 11 NMRA weighted boxcars up my 3% grade with that ends with a 180 degree curve at the summit. This was with plastic wheels and no 'coring' of the journals.
I then used 'Whal' clipper oil on the track and the electical pickup was supurb, but my GP9's could only pull 9-10 cars up the grade.
I then 'borrowed' my friend's TTX track cleaning car and I cleaned all the track again with the TTX car filled with laquer thinner and a car with a masonite 'sled' that had some drywall screen cemented to the sled.
I then reamed out the journals on my freight cars, and installed P2K metal wheel sets. I can now pull 15-16 cars up that same grade! Needless to say, I ordered another 25 pkg's of P2K wheel sets and have converted all of my freight cars - NO plastic wheels run on my layout anymore, and I ran all last year with no track cleaning. I just started cleaning the track this month using the TTX/Sled train again. My metal wheels are still clean - amazing!

Jim Bernier

[BRAKIE]

Guys,This is how I check my trucks to see if they fit my free rolling standards.
For testing I have a 36" piece of flex track I place on the work bench.I place 2 quarters(stacked) under the ties on one end and then place the car on the track.The car should roll to the end of the track..Not very scientific but,it works and goof proof.

[railman]

sounds like a good plan, brakie. If it rolls like that, it should be fine.

[Anonymous]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what are LBF trucks?

[cacole]

LBF is a manufacturer in Roseburg, Oregon, that makes metal wheelsets, box cars, etc. A big problem I have ran into is trying to find LBF replacement wheelsets, because they don't seem to have a very good distributor network or they only produce wheelsets on a limited basis. I have been trying to find a dealer who can get the packages of 100 wheelsets, but no one seems to have any left in stock.

[Anonymous]

Freerolling is when you gotta chase it with the switcher to get it to stop.

It will find spots that are not absolutely level and start moving.

[BR60103]

In a clinic on trucks and rolling, the presenter said that the old Lindberg trucks (the first Delrin ones) did not roll well by themselves, but with a car on them, they rolled quite well. Because the truck frame straightened out with weight on it?

[jrbarney]

Here's the link for ordering wheel sets at the LBF Company, Inc. Web site:
http://www.lbfcompany.com/main-accessories.htm
Scroll down a bit. The home page also has a dealer list.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

1. Set the car ao a level track
2. Blow on the end from about 2" away

If it moves it is "free rolling"

That sounds pretty good, but some of us are windier than others.[swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Freerolling is when you gotta chase it with the switcher to get it to stop.

It will find spots that are not absolutely level and start moving.

HA! [(-D][(-D][(-D]

Not only are free rolling cars easier to get up grades, I've seen and heard slack action go in and out of an HO train travelling at slow speeds through a very slight dip in the track. Too Cool!!! [:D]

[randybc2003]

I rember the Central Valley trucks. I still have some and use them, especially on some of my old passenger equipment. The closest I have found is Kadee, but I haven't used P2K or LBF.
At my club I had 15 to 18 100 ton Covered Hoppers behind a Bachman Spectrum SD45. I could barely make it wiggle. I was advised to "tune up" my fleet of hoppers. I have several Atlas cars, & I used them as a "standard". I replaced wheelsets, cleaned out few journals (didn't grind them out yet), and GREATLY improved the movement. I haven't had a chance to "stretch" the loco yet, and see how many it can pull. Intend to add Decoders to another deisel, and double head. I am "shooting" for 40 units - a mix of Athern, (Blue and Yellow box), Roundhouse, Accurail, and Atlas. I even have some old Tyco.
My fleet is "eclectric" to say the least.

[AggroJones]

Pretty basic. Set the car on level track and blow gently. If its free-rolling, it should move easily.

[Morpar]

My LHS owner was suggesting Jaybee (?) wheelsets while I was in there Saturday. He showed me the way the cars in his grain train roll, but I wasn't real impressed. Granted, he admitted very few of these cars had anything other than the original manufacturer's wheels under them, but even on his flat layout none of the cars were rolling all that far with a reasonable push. Anyone else have any experience with these wheelsets? He told me that he thought that the NMRA did have a standard for "free-rolling", but we couldn't find it. Granted, he did have other customers, and I had to get going, so it wasn't the most in-depth search ever conducted, but it still came up bust. He also seemed to think that the NMRA car weight standard was designed with the old, crappy train set wheels to get them to roll at all, and that with better rolling wheels the "extra" weight over what comes with a car is just overkill. Any thoughts on that?

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Morpar

... He told me that he thought that the NMRA did have a standard for "free-rolling", but we couldn't find it. Granted, he did have other customers, and I had to get going, so it wasn't the most in-depth search ever conducted, but it still came up bust. He also seemed to think that the NMRA car weight standard was designed with the old, crappy train set wheels to get them to roll at all, and that with better rolling wheels the "extra" weight over what comes with a car is just overkill. Any thoughts on that?

The NMRA standards and RPs are at http://www.nmra.org/standards/consist.html#standards but I can't find any measurable standard, just the statement that they should be free rolling with the NMRA recommended weight. Interesting thought about whether really free rolling trucks mean less weight is needed.
Personally, I have always weighted my cars to the NMRA standard - I think it helps and I don't run long enough trains for the weight to be a limiting factor.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Beware that you can't have an answer that always works. I've got lots of Athearn BB and MDC where I've routinly cleaned the journals with the 'tool' and replaced the wheelsets with P2K. This past weekend I got an Athearn RTR '50 combo door box car and did the above routine. The trucks are narrower. Narrow enough that the original plastic wheel set are free wheeling. Phooey. Distance between points on the P2K is 1.015". The original is .985". May have to buy a new set of trucks. Double Phooey.

[Anonymous]

Follow-up on my Athearn RTR '50. I installed P2K 100 ton trucks and the car showed me a couple of new unlevel spots on my layout. Did have to provide clearance on the underframe as these trucks had the correct 36" wheels replacing the original 33".

[Anonymous]

Suggestions for " O" Scale freight twheelsets/trucks anyone? [ not toy type like Lionel, and not the 1/4 AAR.super accurate, just regular scale "O" ]
Jennifer

[Anonymous]

Jennifer,
Atlas has O guage trucks for 2 and 3 rail. Offerings are Andrews, 50-Ton, 100-Ton and caboose.
Mike

[SteelMonsters]

If you ever had a couple cars find their way to a long downgrade and have them break the scale sound barrier (750 scale MPH), your cars might be free-rolling.

[Anonymous]

RE: O scale, I know about the Atlas, not bad at all. I was wondering if there were some small company out there making something really nice for standard O. I have few cars, some very vintage from the 50s, and some Atlas current manufacture.

In my On3 experience, every wheelset I have ever seen has been a metal tire or complete wheel, and passible axel bearing,usually plastic. Sometimes, its a metal axel and the metal wheel is mointed with an insulator. However 'fair' the bearings may be, some better some worse, compared to the advantage of the nice metal rims, it dosen't really matter how free rolling they are because we pull trains of 2 [passenger] to 5 [freight] cars. Hardly a load at all.

[Anonymous]

Jennifer,
Try Precision Scale. Here's their web site. http://www.precisionscaleco.com/
Mike