GG-1's (in HO)

[Anonymous]

My model RR could use one or more GG-1 locomotives in PRR (or, if worst comes to worst, PC ) livery. Putting aside the recent BLI model as way too expensive, I'm aware only of the IHC line. Any advice on various versions of the mechanism, drive, etc. that may have been produced over the years, and how to tell them apart, would be gratefully appreciated.

In addition, not being focussed on the Pennsy, I'd appreciate advice on the appropriate paint and striping schemes for 1972 and later for (1) passenger, and (2) freight. Recognizing (thanks to AntionioFP45's reminder) that by 1971 we were already afflicted with Amtrak, I suspect that some units didn't get repainted until well past the Penn Central merger, maybe lasting even into Amtrak days. So the question really should be, what were the last PRR schemes used, and how long they survived?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm relatively new to this forum, but already have learned lots of useful things.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joelhof

In addition, not being focused on the Pennsy, I'd appreciate advice on the appropriate paint and striping schemes for 1972 and later for (1) passenger, and (2) freight.

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm relatively new to this forum, but already have learned lots of useful things.

Hello Joelhof,

In 1972, Amtrak was on the scene. I was a kid then. The big "Gs" were showing up in the Red, Blue, and Platinum paint scheme. There were plenty of units in the solid black body with the white PENN CENTRAL "worm" logo on the sides. The black units hauled freight for the Penn Central as well as Amtrak.

I know what you mean about the BLI's being expensive, however, check ebay as sometimes decent deals for new units show up from time to time.

Just my [2c], but if you obtain an IHC unit, consider re-motoring with a Mashima. I would make sure to include flywheels and add some weight to it. One thing in your favor is that there is quite a bit of space inside the carbody to add weight.

If you go this route can contact the techs at www.ppw-aline.com for suggestions.

Hope this helps!

[dharmon]

I believe that the IHC is the same one that used to be AHM. AHMs can be found fairly inexpensively on Ebay. I believe that some of the older ones were made by Rivarossi, so they'll have deeper flanges on the wheels. If you use code 100 track though it should be okay.

[Anonymous]

The GG1 that IHC has today are not the same as AHM. Yes Rivarossi did make GG1s. The GG1 protos was my favorite passenger loco, So in the years pass I think that I have had the AHM, Rivarossi and all the GG1s that IHC sold.The GG1 that IHC sold after the Rivarossi's was to me a very bad model. The ones now are ok, I have two.

[dknelson]

The IHC GG1 might be a remake of the one formerly offered by Pemco (they orginally made the 2-6-0 and 4-8-2 that IHC has offered from time to time which makes me assume they bought all the PEMCO tooling -- PEMCO did not last long). I have the PEMCO GG1 and while it is a nice enough looking engine I cannot say it runs well even by the standards of 20 or so years ago. Plus the wheels look fragile like they might not stand up to much running (mine has been in the box ever since I installed the Kadees and gave it a test run on a friend's layout).
At swap meets you might see the old old metal GG1 offered by Varney, later by Bowser. It is a real hauler BUT it is several feet shorter than scale length.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

I would recommend the newer IHC GG1. They look to be a rework of the Pemco ,but with a better drive. The drive has 2 flywheel equipped motors, one at each end with a driveshaft to the truck. all 12 drive wheels are powered.
The motors could be upgraded and electrical pickups added to the 2 sets of inside drivers.
I have noticed on one of mine that the plastic frame is starting to bow. This may be due to the fact that the motors are mounted on the ends and the frame is thin around the truck areas.
The old Pemco G's only had 1 truck drive with a pancake motor and spur gear drive. they also suffered from electrical pickup problems. The rims on the drivers will start slipping off the wheel and loose contact from the contact strip to the axle. Adding electrical pickups to the center drivers will help also.
I also have a Pennline GG1 I rebuilt. I like it, but it is a bit noisy.

[ndbprr]

How about a history of offerings:
1. Penn line later Varney - too short and made of pot metal. Heavy but short on detail and length. By todays standards - junk
2. Late 60's Rivarossi offered through AHM and later directly. Uses a three pole vertical motor with a very smooth mechanism and traction tires. Deep flanges. Get two and make tone double motored they will pull more than the prototype
3. Pemco - offered one for about $29.00 in the 70's and they are still around. I defy anyone to look at any of the plastic shells and say which manufacturer they are from. mechanism is prety cheap. Can be had on E bay for under $30.00 most of the time.
4. IHC - Look for the Premier line although you still need to check. Later versions have dual drives and two motors at no additional cost. Have not run mine to any degree but the motor looks small. Worm turns a gear tower in the truck ala Atheran but very quiet. IHC often has sales and sells them as cheap as $52.00 direct. Check their web site.
5. BLI - don't own one has some features others don't in addition to the normal BLI features. All the others have a taper under the car body to allow the truck frame some vertical play for going up hills. Also has cab steps the others don't but has two small notches in the car body base on each side that are incorrect. probably mold issue realted.

The steps on the others can be fairly well represented by attaching Alco FA steps. If you want one in the 4801-4857 class you are also going to have to modify the pilot as they didn't have the drop coupler that 4858-4939 had. You just need to cut out the little bulge in the center and replace it with a piece of styrene so the pilot is straight accross. My personal choice is the Rivarossi followed by the IHC dual drive.

[dknelson]

Good summary ndbprr -- but the Penn Line/Bowser is zinc alloy and when properly painted looked pretty good I think. After all the GG-1 body is reasonably smooth. I have some of the truck side frame castings and they are somewhat blunt but again when painted and weathered look not to bad. Can't argue about the lack of scale length. I think "junk" is too strong a term. A well painted one in good running order might well be worth looking into. But perhaps not worth seeking out.
By the way, somewhat off topic: somewhere in some book I have a photo of a GG1 the Pennsy cut in half and used, I think, for snow removal service. At one time I thought of doing that with my Pemco.
Dave Nelson

[tatans]

This might not be the appropriate forum but: when running a GG-1 on your layout, do you have a catenary system to run the loco? or does overhead system even work? And to authentically represent the system is the whole layout covered by the overhead power source, that would seem to be a tremendous task. thanks

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all who responded. I continue to be amazed by the variety and depth of the expertise out there, and by your kind-hearted willingness to share it.

I do note that no one has yet addressed my question re GG-1 paint schemes, that is, what was PRR's last scheme before Penn Central and how long that scheme survived before repainting into PC and/or Amtrak. Anyone care to enlighten me on this?

[Anonymous]

I did a search and found this.
http://www.spikesys.com/GG1/paint.html

[Anonymous]

Ray, thank you for finding and reporting this link. I never would have suspected ....

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

This might not be the appropriate forum but: when running a GG-1 on your layout, do you have a catenary system to run the loco? or does overhead system even work? And to authentically represent the system is the whole layout covered by the overhead power source, that would seem to be a tremendous task. thanks

I think only the devoted string caternary over everything. I'm thinking over time, people will detail what can been seen. Staging? Nah.