SHIP IT!

[gerryleone]

Yikes, you guys. Take a Chill Pill.

I've been running Ship It since last Fall and am another one who really likes it. I tried several other programs and none has the flexibility or power of Ship It.

Yes, the "Help" forum on Yahoo is busy, but that's because no two layouts are alike. However Ship It can handle ANY layout situation, and that's why it's such a complex program.

If you spend hundreds of hours superdetailing a loco or building a craftsman kit, why would you expect to spend 1 hour building a system to operate your layout? Sure, it takes time and patience and lots of puttering -- but the result, like a craftsman kit, breathes life into your layout.

-Gerry

[Anonymous]

Mark: I am not connected with Albion in any way. I somply like the product.

I did read your posts, and my last message was not in reply to your posts on the 14th, but rather what you posted on 3/11, where your first lines was: "I tried it and gave up in disgust".
I took that line to mean that you did not complete the project, and therefore do not have a complete understanding of the program, as much as someone who did. Am I implying you are uninteligent? NO. And my intent is not to attack you personally.

In your post on the 15th, you refer to "pros" who say you have to feed false information to the program to make it work. Who are these "pros"?
Feeding false information to the program is a useful shortcut, and as any properly used tool, it can make things easier. Is lying to the program required? No. Early versions had a bug, which was fixed in later versions. Lying to the program is a simple way to save time, and the time consumption was one point your were complaining about.

The program is large, and it's complex. That's why the Yahoo forum is great support for the people who use it.

There are important short cuts though. I, like most people, tried to input everything up front, they you will pull your hair out, when the program fails and you can't figure out why. Most of the "pros" will tell you, to make small changes that are easily tracked, and run sessions to verify.

I'll give you my secret: Wipe out bith the prinary and secondary databases. Input into both bases only the basic info; trains, schedules, towns. Then in the secondary input only one shipper/consignee/product,and base number of cars. Now you can generate sessions in blinding speed,and can easily track failures, and make corrections, and run verifying sessions. When everything is sorted out with that shipper/consignee, duplicate the info into the primary, and test run. I did this 14 times until I had the layout running smoothly.
MOPAC 1

[Anonymous]

I love Shipit...but then I don't do complex things. I do think that it tries to cover too much ground. I started to write a program to do this and decided there were too many factors to consider. The problems seem to come from trying to design for all conditions. Like killing an ant with a shot gun. The last improvements to print out various database entries helped a lot. Did you try this or was your version earlier?

[Pruitt]

Are you an investor in Albion Software, the makers of ShipIt!, or did you just not read what I said? I suggest, Robert, that you go back and re-read (or read for the first time) my posts, particularly the one from March 14th. Wjere did I "admit" that I don't understand ShipIt? Where did I give any intimation that I was not able to make it work? The answer to both questions is: I didn't.

If you DID re-read my posts, you found that I didn't "bash" a "perfectly good product." Nowhere did I say that you can't make ShipIt! do what's those who programmed it claim it can do. I DID imply that the time required to do so would be prodigious on any sort of a complex layout. I DID point out that one must practically become a database programmer to use the product effectively. I DID point out, very specifically, where, according to the "pros" who know ShipIt! inside and out, the user has to feed false information into the program to make it work properly.

Again, I didn't just "bash" ShipIt!. I offered specific criticisms, WITH SOME EXAMPLES, about problems I and others on the Yahoo group board encountered.

A couple of posts about what I consider to be a deficient product is constantly offering criticism?

I hold an Engineering Degree from Columbia University, and a Mathematics Degree from Carroll College. I understand something of network theory, and of database programming and manipulation (not that I'm claiming to BE a database programmer, just that I know something about it). I use a variety of CAD and database products, good and not-so-good, to carry out my job as an aircraft designer. I'm very technically oriented. I know what I'm talking about.

Certainly modeling a complex layout in a database, essential to proper car forwarding, is itself a complex task. But when, for example, I have a classification yard on the layout, I don't expect to have to program ShipIt! to use a classification yard properly. I expect to model the yard in ShipIt!'s database (number of classification tracks, lengths, etc.), then have ShipIt! use the yard properly. It doesn't.

I'm glad the program works for you. I'm sure there are many for whom ShipIt! works great. But programming databases isn't my hobby - model railroading is. I don't want to have to spend hundreds of hours programming (and fooling) the database to generate realistic car forwarding on my large, complex layout. I actually want to work on the layout.

The ShipIt! help forum is very busy. You may be right - this does imply either that a lot of people bought it, or .... that it is so poor at what it's supposed to do that most folks need a lot of help to make it work properly.

Go ahead now - dump on me some more because I find the product unacceptable. But this time, try to explain where I'm wrong in my criticisms, rather than taking blind shots at me, okay?

[Anonymous]

Mark: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you have stated yours. But I can not sit back and watch you bash a perfectly good product.

Is the program complex? Yes. Does it take time to figure out? Yes. But I learned so much more about how a real railroad moves cars around their territory.

I don't think it's fair for you to constantly offer criticism about a product you admittedly don't understand. Because you were never able to make it work, don't spoil the fun for others.

I've been using it for about 3-years now, and I love it. Because of it's complexity, it is the most realistic program at a reasonable price. It has tremendously increased my enjoyment of my layout. I'll admit, the program is not for everyone. It does take some thinking to make it (and your railroad) work correctly. Once it's set-up, however, it's a "no brainer".

If you just want to run trains in a circle, don't buy it. If you want to stage realistic operations, and not spend hundreds of dollars to acquire it, try "Ship It!"

The hardest task some people can muster is to veg-out in front of the TV watching cartoons. Others purposly tackle cross-word puzzles, just for the fun of it. This is a free country, and people can buy it if they choose to. Judging from your references to the help forum, there must be a lot of people who bought it.

MOPAC 1

[Pruitt]

The bottom line -

ShipIt! will work, if you want to invest significant time and energy implementing workarounds for all its shortcomings and failures.

Be prepared to spend MANY HOURS of time!

[Pruitt]

Well, let's see..... in the Yahoo group message board for ShipIt!, you'll find: A ten page tutorial for setting up a classification yard so that ShipIt! will work; Another tutorial tellin you how to make ShipIt! function properly with hidden yards; Another telling you how to make ShipIt! deal with multiple divisions on a layout (a simple branch line might qualify); Multiple posting from ShipIt! "pros" telling newbies to lie to the program about car siding capacities to get it to actually forward cars to the sidings; and so on.

I'm sure ShipIt! is just fine for a loop of track with a few sidings (like ShipIt!'s sample layout). Unfortunately, if you have a layout capable of even remotely simulating real freight car forwarding, ShipIt! is inadequate to the task it purports to automate.

Don't believe me? Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shipit/
and see. You may have to join the group (free) to look in the download area at the tutorials.

[Anonymous]

I use ShipIt on my layout and have never had a problem. Don't be confused by comments on a list server. If you saw the Digitrax list you would never go to DCC, but I have not had a problem with Digitrax either. I think in both cases people are doing more complex things and the normal use is simple to implement.

I do think having Shipit or some other means of doing the same really changes the model railroad concept. Otherwise, I would still be running the same train with the same cars.

[Pruitt]

I tried it and gave up in disgust.

To make it work you have to become a database programmer.

If it's "...best on the market..." then the market is in pretty sad shape.

Before spending hard-earned cash on the product, read their yahoo group for awhile first. You'll find the program requires all sorts of skewed and just plain false data from you to work properly.

Check out Protrack - I've read decent things about it....

[Anonymous]

You download it off the web. The address is:
www.albionsoftware.com

I've used it for several years now, and I love it. It's the best on the market so far...

If you have any questions, or need help, just let me know.

MOPAC 1

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know where I can find "Ship it!" software? You can email me at [e-mail]