Hi everyone:
I am working on a Grandt Line 25 ton switcher. I decided that it was to the point where it should be painted. My spray booth and compressor are not set up so I decided to use a can of Testors Model Master enamel (bright yellow) to spray the body.
I have recently watched Cody Grivno's video on using rattle cans and I thought I followed all the recomendations, i.e. thorough mixing (I shook it for two full minutes) and keeping the can several inches away from the target. However, I am not entirely pleased with the results.
I tried to put on a very thin first coat but the paint went on with a lot of 'orange peel' effect. It was quite rough in appearance. I sprayed a bit more paint and the surface smoothed out but then the paint puddled slightly around some of the details like the pilot steps and the molded on details. Also, the paint failed to cover other details like the window frames and engine doors.
I waited a day and then applied a second coat, but the results were similar. A light spray left a lot of orange peel, and adding a bit more paint caused the same puddling effect around most of the details. There were still some areas where the paint was too thin even after the second coat.
Tonight I applied a third coat of colour and the coverage is now acceptable but the paint looks rather thick. It hasn't fully dried yet but it has been about six hours since the last coat so I doubt that the paint will dry much thinner than it currently is.
OK - the question (finally) - what am I doing wrong? Is there an issue with the Testors spray mechanism? Have you had good results with their product or have you experienced similar issues?
Just so you know, I have had great success with my air brush but like I said, its in storage for now. I got nice even coverage with the airbrush, without puddling, using Polly Scale paints, so I'm not entirely an idiot when it comes to spray painting, although the Testors can seems to be proving that statement somewhat wrong.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave,
Youd didn't say you primed before yellow. I've always found it to be a pretty unforgiving color without priming and would likely improve the results.
Orange peel can be cause by anything that makes the paint start drying before it hits the surface. I shoot in the range of from 6" to 12" , although 6" is pretty close. I mostly avoid orange peel, but when it happens, it's usually because I didn't get the spray going fully and I should've pressed harder.
People report good results by soaking the can in hot water before use. Might try that, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I concur with Mike, Dave. I some times have to spray paint in my day job and find that yellow is terrible paint to get to cover even with a red oxide or grey primer. Lots of light coats, and plenty of patience, which of course is a little impractical on a lil critter.
Spraying with a rattle can, I either place it in hot water, in the direct sunlight or even give it a blast with a hot air gun.
I think that you're missing the control that you have with your spray gun.
Cheers, the Bear. (who fits in to this category ."Who called the painter an idiot???" Who called the idiot a painter???")
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Unfortunately, my best advice to you is to dig out ye olde airbrush.
I for one have never had any success delivering a fine coat of paint with a rattle can. They're great for painting large areas where finess does not matter, but for smaller, highly detailed surfaces, I'll take an airbrush every time. A rattle can's nozzle is basically two settings: off and full. Any attempt (at least for me) to get a more controlled spray delivers substandard results.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
CTValleyRRAny attempt (at least for me) to get a more controlled spray delivers substandard results.
Yeah, that's the issue. When you let up a little on the spary head in an attempt to better control it, results can be highly variable. The rattlecan is made to spray correctly at full on. The trick is to pass through over the model, but spray the whole time so that you don't start or stop the spray over the model. That's when things can go wrong. Adjust coverage by quickness of you pass and, to some degree, your distance. Be careful with too much distance, because you can get orange peel by spraying too far away, too.
I rarely use my airbrush anymore, but do OK with the spraybomb...
I painted all three of these with a can
The yellow gondola I have in the photo gallery (Metropolitan Belt Line) started out stripped down to basic black plastic. I then used a flat white primer on it, as a base for the yellow. I have been thru the "yellow thins at the corners and crevices" issues before (with light gray Walmart primer) and found the better solution with an all-white primer base. I recommend 2 days between the white primer coat and the yellow top coat.
Cedarwoodron
I agree, use a flat white as a primer.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
I have found that Testors spray can paint as being "course" and have had better results using Tamiyas offerings.
Cheers, the Bear.
Not much to add....but I will also agree on the use of a White primer.
Also start spraying before the work and continue after the work, at least 10'' away and quicker movements will keep the spray more even.
Never did care much for Testor's rattle can's and will agree with JaBear also.
Take Care!
Frank
Thanks for your responses.
I did not prime the body for two reasons. First, the Grandt Line body was grey to begin with, and secondly because the details are very fine I wanted to get away with as few layers of paint as possible. It didn't occur to me to use white primer, but in hindsight that would have been smart.
It now has three coats of the Testors paint and as you can probably guess the paint on the flat surfaces is too thick, and it hasn't covered the raised details properly.
My next step will be to strip the paint off and wait until my airbrush is set up so I can do it properly, including a base coat of white primer.
Thanks for your advice. I wish I had asked before I started painting.
Just to add insult to injury, the testors paint is very hard to strip off even though it was only a couple of days old.
I am using 99% Isopropol alcohol. After three days of soaking it has softened the paint but it still requires a fair bit of pressure using a tooth brush with cut down bristles to get the paint off. The cab side walls are too delicate to withstand the amount of pressure needed to remove the paint.
My next step will be to get some 'Super Clean' cleaner which has been recommended on the forum. Failing that I will try brake fluid but I really don't like the stuff.
A question for those of you who are knowledgeable about chemicals - does Isopropyl Alcohol lose its effectiveness over time? I have used my supply on multiple projects and returned the unused stuff to the bottle. Once the debris settles I decant the alcohol so it is ready for the next time I need it. Is it time for a new supply?
Thanks
Dave, I would start w/ a new bottle of 91%, over time an opened bottle will absorb moisture, let alone a bottle that has been used to previously strip paint. The super Clean should work if isopropl fails, not familiar w/ the styrene used for the grant line switch, but would be rather careful w/ brake fluid. Even though the plastic may withstand the aggressive fluid, it is possible to craize the surface.
I have never liked the testor's enamals, even way back attempting to spray AMT, revelle models, the results were somewhat poor. These paints tend to have just enough vehicle to allow a spray and the pigment is "light" especially for such colors as yellow. I do however, when using rattle can, try to save a "great" working/ control nozzle and will switch it out to at least have a known application. As mentioned, the tamiya sprays are actually quite good.
Boy. do I miss the days of airbrushing w/ the "original" Floequil, my supply is dwindling and getting old!
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
It sounds like you got the results I would expect to get if I used a spray gloss yellow to paint a small locomotive that has a lot of nooks and crannies.
I don't own an airbrush.
I would brush paint the small loco with a quality hobby brand paint instead of spraying. Too many nooks and crannies on a 25 ton loco.
Rattle cans work best if they are flat or satin paint. Gloss comes out too thick, IMO. And the rattle can hobby paints are too runny, which makes the paint pool, especially if you use yellow, which is notorious for not covering well.
I use krylon, but then you are limited to the colors they offer in flat or satin.
And removing rattle can paint is difficult. I resort to using mineral spirits and a toothbrush ASAP before th paint cures really well.
- Douglas
Thanks Bob K. and doughless, and others.
I will replace the isopropyl alcohol. In Canada we can get 99%, and it has worked well on many stripping projects but I guess I have pushed the stuff past its usefulness.
I went to the local Canadian Tire store to try to get some Super Clean but despite what their web site said they didn't have it. I did find another citrus based cleaner/degreaser called 'Mean Green' which has a warning on the label about not getting it on any painted surfaces so it sounds fairly aggressive. I will test it on a sprue first to see if it damages the styrene.
I'll keep you posted.
Dave, Super Clean is available in Canada at Walmart, but it's 20 bucks a gallon (and not even a real gallon at that). I zipped down to the States last week and picked up the same-sized gallon for seven bucks and change, but I haven't yet had time to try it.I used to get quick results using methyl hydrate for stripping paint from plastic models, but it doesn't work equally well on all, and I've had three newer Athearn boxcars sitting in it for over a week, with little action.
Wayne
Hi Wayne!
The citrus cleaner that I got at Canadian Tire (Mean Green) is already starting to work after only a couple of hours. I put a piece of the Grandt Line sprue in it for about two hours and there was absolutely no evidence of any effect on the styrene, so, being the impatient SOB that I am, I plopped the switcher body parts into the cleaner. That was about two hours ago and as I said, the cleaner seems to be doing the job.
I'll check it again tomorrow and post the results. Hopefully I won't have a few blobs of molten styrene to show for my efforts!
24 hours later the Mean Green cleaner has done a very nice job of removing the remaining paint. There appears to be no damage to the styrene. It is still flexible and the surface details are all there.