I recommend posting a "want-to-buy" (WTB) on one of the swap sites at Yahoo Groups such as HOrailroading.
I went this route a few years back and acquired about 30 MRC Old Timer freight cars through 2-3 sellers for $5 each. I wasn't particicular about the type (reefer/box/cattle) as long as they had the old cast metal chassis, which I needed for future scratchbuilding projects. This is an inexpensive way to build a fleet as long as you are flexible about what you get.
Jim
maxman doctorwayne Total cost for the extra parts was perhaps three or four dollars. In any of these cost comparisons I think that the "true cost" of additional materials should be used. Certainly the cost could be three or four dollars if you happen to have the items already at hand. But the individual who is starting "from scratch" will have to buy a bottle of paint and the decals. That's at least $10 right there not counting the time to go hunt for the stuff. Same with grabs and other peripherals.
doctorwayne Total cost for the extra parts was perhaps three or four dollars.
In any of these cost comparisons I think that the "true cost" of additional materials should be used. Certainly the cost could be three or four dollars if you happen to have the items already at hand. But the individual who is starting "from scratch" will have to buy a bottle of paint and the decals. That's at least $10 right there not counting the time to go hunt for the stuff. Same with grabs and other peripherals.
I think that once you get into this type of work, though, that you do tend to minimise the additional costs - after all, I have packages of brake gear, car ends, doors, and other details on-hand, and probably several hundred dollars worth of strip styrene, various sizes and types of wire, a supply of trucks and couplers, not to mention over a hundred bottles of paint and various thinners and strippers. Add in the cost of tools and the need for a workshop to perform the upgrades, and nothing on the layout is anywhere near as cheap as the initial outlay for that item. That said, I enjoy immensely doing this kind of work, so it still seems like a good deal.
Wayne
doctorwayneTotal cost for the extra parts was perhaps three or four dollars.
BRAKIE....On the other side of the coin many of us doesn't have the patience,the needed skills or time to do such modeling and we welcome those highly detailed RTR cars or more like we proudly just use those older Athearn and Roundhouse cars as they are.
You're certainly right, Larry, and that's one reason why this is such a great hobby - lots of options to suit pretty-well every interest.
Accurail is #1 when it comes to great value freight cars! Great bang for the buck. The quality is excellent (Made in the USA)! Wonderful costumer service too. I highly recommend the ACF covered hoppers. I have heard positive things about their other products. Their plastic wheelsets are fine though I would add Kadees.
You can also get Athearn RTR boxcars, gondolas, etc for $15 bucks if you look around. The detail is excellent, and it comes with decent couplers, and metal wheelsets.
The Altas trainman can be a good deal too.
On the other hand, if you're looking for added value in modeling time and learning new skills, older kits or trainset stuff, or used (and sometimes abused) stuff can be had for a very low initial outlay. Sure, you'll pay additionally for some of the things needed to repair or upgrade these finds, but it's usually less than what a current-day high quality model would cost.
--------------------------------------------------
Wayne,First I agree but,it seems the current phase in the hobby is "I want it out of the box and it best be 100% correct."
The 1' to wide cars from Athearn and Roundhouse like many of us still use with our heads held high is no longer acceptable even when dressed up like Athearn ex Roundhouse FMC boxcars.
As beautiful as your reefer is I'm sure a freight car guru could point out the errors but,be that has it may you had the enjoyment of bringing that reefer up to your detail standards and IMHO that satisfaction is priceless and will never be found by taking a car out of its box and placing it on the rails.
On the other side of the coin many of us doesn't have the patience,the needed skills or time to do such modeling and we welcome those highly detailed RTR cars or more like we proudly just use those older Athearn and Roundhouse cars as they are.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
All great sugggestions here...I would also check for used cars at your local hobby shop. Mine buys up collections and I've obtained some very nice Exactrail and Walthers cars for $12-$16. Also, check out the direct manufacterer's sites. I recently picked up some ExactRail cars for $13.95.Have fun!
Dan
Wayne:
As always, great work!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
BRAKIE....If I was new to the hobby or starting afresh I would skip the cheaper cars and go for the higher detailed cars like Atlas,Intermountain,Red Caboose,ExactRail,BLMA,Fox Valley and Athearn's better RTR cars not the old BB RTR.. While I don't have a deep pocket hobby budget I feel in this case you're getting the most bang for your hobby dollars....
The amount of "bang for one's buck" varies with each person's interests. If you're looking for mainly r-t-r stuff, yeah, the high end offerings can get you started on a good footing, and bought 2 or 3 cars at a time, as your budget allows, may be a good route to follow.
On the other hand, if you're looking for added value in modelling time and learning new skills, older kits or trainset stuff, or used (and sometimes abused) stuff can be had for a very low initial outlay. Sure, you'll pay additionally for some of the things needed to repair or upgrade these finds, but it's usually less than what a current-day high quality model would cost. Most of my rolling stock is off the "used" table at my LHS, often for only a couple of bucks, although I do have some higher quality ones, too, and even a few (almost) r-t-r cars.
Here's an Intermountain car. Bought as an undecorated kit (about $35.00), I built it mostly as intended, although I replaced all of the grabirons and sill steps with metal parts (something I would have done to a r-t-r car, too). Lettering is from Microscale, paint from Floquil:
This one is a modified Accurail car, initial cost of the kit around $16.00. Paint and lettering same as the first car (there are actually two of the steel ones). I made a few modifications to the car so that it more closely represented the prototype car which was rebuilt into the steel-sheathed version:
I also scraped off the cast-on ladders and replaced them with homemade wire ones, and added brake rigging, too. The hatch platforms were spares from the Intermountain kits:
Total cost for the extra parts was perhaps three or four dollars. I used photos of both the real car and of a Westerfield model of the car as references.
The difference in cost was about $15.00, almost enough to buy another Accurail car. I did spend more time and effort building the Accurail car, but I consider that to be part of my "bang for the buck". That it's a fairly unique car made from one readily available only amplifies that bang, at least for me.
The Boeing St Louis RR club swap meet is Saturday the 6th of Sept. A great place to get a good deal on train items.
I buy my rolling stock from several sources. LHS when the price is right or when they have a unique car that I want but can't find anywhere else. I buy some from Walthers and other on-line sources. But the majority of my rolling stock has been purchased at train shows and swap meets.
If you are patient you can eventually find whatever you need at reasonable prices at a train show. An example:
I purchased seven of these little hoppers at a train show for $4.00 each. The vendor actually gave me a brake and sold me all seven cars for $25.00. They came with the Kadee couplers. I weighted them and made coal loads for them.
If you look you can find NIB rolling stock and locos for reasonable or even bargain prices.
If there are no hobby shops, train shows or swap meets in your area, the best sources are most likely on line.
Good luck in your quest and have fun.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Building a HO freight car fleet cost-effectively
Build from kits.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
There have been many good thoughts presented here!
When I started - I bought just about anything to get enough cars to hold OPs Session.
At that time I just ran by myself so I didn't need that many.
When I moved and began my dream layout - the number of cars needed to populate a 2500 sq ft layout was staggering!
I threw everything I had on the layout and made a lot of purchases at our Local Train Shows and LHS as they had a lot of Athearn cars at the time (back in 2000)
Now that I have the layout hosting OPs Session every two weeks and the car count is at 1200 cars - I really don't need any more cars! ;-)
BUT!
Does that stop me from buying more?
NOPE!
But now I have begun to remove the older LESS Detailed cars and selling them to others just starting out.
I will slowly keep updating the cars on the layout and will eventually begin replacing the Current Cars with even more detailed cars!
At least I am recouping some of my investment by selling off the older cars to NUBEs just entering the Hobby.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Eric97123 If you are in the hobby for the long haul get good rolling stock but space out the purchases. A car or two per month won't hurt the wallet so badly.
If you are in the hobby for the long haul get good rolling stock but space out the purchases. A car or two per month won't hurt the wallet so badly.
Let's put the cheap cars and kits aside for now and look at it from a different angle.
First I fully concur with your thoughts..
If I was new to the hobby or starting afresh I would skip the cheaper cars and go for the higher detailed cars like Atlas,Intermountain,Red Caboose,ExactRail,BLMA,Fox Valley and Athearn's better RTR cars not the old BB RTR..
While I don't have a deep pocket hobby budget I feel in this case you're getting the most bang for your hobby dollars and cars that match the higher detailed locomotives that is readily available for $99.00 or less..
Again I agree 1, 2 or even 3 cars a month won't bust the bank especially if you buy at street prices.
Hi
I can only add to this by stating the obviouse don't buy anything you can't use at the moment, and be prepared to do some work on the cars particularly older ones.
It sounds blindingly obviouse but a lot of us have perfectly servicable cars that we bought and later thought, why did I get that for what ever reason it doesn't fit with what I am doing but it is a nice car that I like.
regards John
zstripelike the two and three packs, which were really a deal price wise.
Indeed they are even on e-Bay.I bought the three pack of the Chessie ACF covered hopper set and the three set of private owner covered hoppers.
I think these kits rekindled my car kit building interest since I bought and built several car kits over the past few months.
BRAKIE zstripe In case you are interested: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/catalog/Catalog.pdf Take Care! Frank Nice outdated list since Accurail web page shows a lot of their cars out of stock-not a good sign for their line of kits. http://www.accurail.com/accurail/
zstripe In case you are interested: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/catalog/Catalog.pdf Take Care! Frank
In case you are interested:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/catalog/Catalog.pdf
Take Care!
Frank
Nice outdated list since Accurail web page shows a lot of their cars out of stock-not a good sign for their line of kits.
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/
Didn't realize that I put in the wrong link until now. The one You linked is the one I wanted to use. But they did make a lot of kits over the years.
A lot of their out-of stock items, were the limited runs...like the two and three packs, which were really a deal price wise.
Here in the St Louis the Boeing RR Club has two shows a year with almost 300 tables of rr stuff & I have bought many blue box & MDC kits in the $5-$7 range + many unboxed cars with KD's in the $3-$6 range. Next show is the 6th of Sept.
G Paine kasskaboose I frequently purchase RTR Atlas Trainman or discount-Athearn cars at train shows while you are thinking of Trainman, take a look at Accurail and, maybe Branchline/Atlas kits. They are good quality, and in a similar price range to Trainman Also , check Trainworld site. They sell overstocks, etc at good prices.http://www.trainworld.com/
kasskaboose I frequently purchase RTR Atlas Trainman or discount-Athearn cars at train shows
while you are thinking of Trainman, take a look at Accurail and, maybe Branchline/Atlas kits. They are good quality, and in a similar price range to Trainman
Also , check Trainworld site. They sell overstocks, etc at good prices.http://www.trainworld.com/
Accurail's biggest isssue though is selection. If you want to model 1970-onwards they only have maybe a handful of kits.
I buy Tichy RTR by varius manufactures and the better Atlas cars, also Proto 2000, all RTR for under $15 (used to be $10 two years ago, still is sometimes) on e-bay.
Speaking for myself I buy most of my rolling stock at train shows. Now as to how much you need it depends on the configuration of your track. If you have a yard you can store some there.
I have a separate yard that I use to display my rolling stock and change out the cars on the layout once in while. For this purpose I built an extra siding with one of those Rix rail it ramps that allows me to easily add cars 9th the assumption that they come in from off the layout. Thus I can keep a good roster but usually no more than about 12 or 13 cars on my 4 X 10 layout.
Joe Staten Island West
kasskaboose I would appreciate suggestions on creating my HO freight car fleet. I frequently purchase RTR Atlas Trainman or discount-Athearn cars at train shows (about 6/show). I saw estate sale tables, but after seeing most cars needed alot of work---replacing couplers, trucks, etc--I stopped going that route.
I would appreciate suggestions on creating my HO freight car fleet. I frequently purchase RTR Atlas Trainman or discount-Athearn cars at train shows (about 6/show). I saw estate sale tables, but after seeing most cars needed alot of work---replacing couplers, trucks, etc--I stopped going that route.
I keep a box of Intermountan metal wheelsets and a bulk-pack of Kadee #158 couplers (my personal favorite) in my workshop, so if I see a decent car I don't worry about needing these. It's routine, and cost-effective, too.
1. Are there other good quality HO manufactures at or below the $10-15/car?
Sure. Accurail, Tichy and Bowser make high-quality kits that won't break the bank. Accurail kits are pretty easy, Bowser's take a trifle more skill, and Tichy cars are challenging, to say the least.
2. Should I purchase cars through online auctions or train shows?
3. Is 50-80 weathered and RTR HO cars suitable on a 7x11 foot layout w/ three industry sidings and a 5-track yard ?
If that is all your real estate (no staging, etc.) then that is way too many cars. Fill your yard and sidings with cars, then take away half of them. Make up 1 typical-sized train. That's about all that will reasonably fit on your layout at 1 time and still let you run and operate trains. Sure, you'll want some variety, but you should take off 1 car for every replacement you put on.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Tichey Train Group
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
One reaction to your question is do you enjoy building freight car kits, which affects my suggestions. If you haven't tried it, I enjoy it a bunch. I've also discovered I like structure kits, so I'm highly inclined in the kit direction. For kits, train show Athearn BB kits abound (some, for me, well priced and some overpriced) and are adequate for my needs. Current similar items for me are Accurail and Bowser kits, with lots of selection. I tend to buy those from web suppliers (e.g., modeltrainstuff.com).
Another angle is whether you want to get into repainting and decaling. Check out the great work of several folks on Weekend Phoot Fun threads here. I just (sorta) conquered the airbrush on some Athearn passenger repaints and much enjoyed the project. I'm about to repaint a couple of UP cabooses; one a train show purchase where someone had added two holes in the sides, another a MDC Roundhouse kit that just looked poor overall.
On occasion I buy a RTR freight item, a recent example a Walthers snowplow. Expensive but nicer than the cheaper kits I tend to acquire. I have not yet tackled the more specialized kits. A Tichy flat car is my biggest achievement yet.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
DoughlessAnd I never felt like the auction sites really give you a better deal for NEW cars than the hobby shops. Shipping costs sometimes exceed local sales tax when comparing the on line store to the the hobby shop item
Here's the key.. Buy from a ebay hobby shop that combines shipping and then buy 2-3 cars..I found BIN prices can be cheaper then bidding since some folks has to win a item at all costs even if its well above MSRP.
Now that $60.00 amount for two cars at a LHS is more like $48.00 including shipping though e-bay or a on line hobby shop..Some shops offers free shipping as well.
I found that out after trying to support a hobby shop..I was paying more at the shop-not including a 52 mile round trip with lunch-diabetics must eat on a schedule to maintain normal sugar levels since sweets is out the door.The last thing you want is a sugar drop while driving----or any time as far as that goes.